The Only Female Cleric at the Synod

[Roguish]

[…] they are concerned with other things women do such as wearing Western clothing, driving and going to school, that are every bit as alarming to them as female priests apparently are to you.

Well, I grew up and continue to live among “those people”, and no, wearing Western clothing or women driving or going to school are not as alarming to them as female priests are to either them or me. Anyway, let’s not change the topic: point is that out of all major traditions the RCC is the only one to be dialoguing with “priestesses”.

If you like traditional and think it’s the answer, that’s a valid view/ opinion.

It is, isn’t it? But the RCC is slowly but gradually becoming a rather unsatisfying environment for those of traditional bent. The resurgence of the TLM (also only in the West, btw) can’t fix this, because this isn’t about liturgy but about teaching. Sure, under Pope Benedict it seemed that a bit of a reversal of the trend was taking place, but currently the RCC is back on track with its slow-but-sure modernization programme. Female ordination is on the table. Pro-choicers are on the Pontifical Academy for Life. Ireland’s unrepentant yes-voters are still welcome in Church. Communion for those in irregular unions is now a matter of “personal discernment”. Etc. None of this is paranoid imagination. This stuff is happening, and the trend is clear.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I doubt you grew up among every Islamic group on earth just like I did not grow up among every Catholic sect on earth. I don’t think you can make such blanket pronouncements against any large religion.

In any event, I wonder if your growing up around such persons influenced your view of women and helped cause you to be so invested (to put it kindly ) in the issue of women priests. You’re overexcited about the subject, to say the least. I don’t see it as worthy of all the frothing at the mouth either way.

 

[Roguish]

In any event, I wonder if your growing up around such persons influenced your view of women and helped cause you to be so invested (to put it kindly ) in the issue of women priests. You’re overexcited about the subject, to say the least. I don’t see it as worthy of all the frothing at the mouth either way.

Well, let me wipe the froth for a sec lest it drip onto the keyboard… Okay, that’s better. Anyway, it’s interesting that you wish to attribute my strong feelings on the matter to my having grown up among other religions. Last I checked the RCC’s own teaching was very firm on female ordination. Apparently it does not suit you to attribute my strong feelings to my Catholic upbringing?

But of course, the point is moot: up till now the RCC was, in this respect, no different from Hinduism, Islam, or Buddhism (or Eastern Orthodoxy for that matter). It is only now that female ordination has been put on the table and this is potentially becoming a major difference between the RCC and all other major traditions.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Given that the male priests have been making a botch of the job with all the abuse scandals and gay sex scandals and drop-off in vocations, it makes perfect sense to me that women would be considered.

If it’s God’s will, it will happen. If it’s not, it won’t.

 

[Roguish]

Given that the male priests have been making a botch of the job with all the abuse scandals and gay sex scandals and drop-off in vocations, it makes perfect sense to me that women would be considered.

OK, so basically you’re in favor of female ordination. At least that’s honest of you, as it clarifies where you’re coming from in this discussion. It’s wrong, but honest.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s not big news that I don’t have a problem with female ordination. Ive been open about that on the forum since day 1. I’m not that invested in it however and don’t go around protesting in favor of it, writing letters to bishops, threatening to leave the Church if I don’t get my way, or supporting women who do. Nor do I post about it much on here because people get too wound up.

Like I said, I don’t see it as a big deal either way.

 

[Roguish]

It’s not big news that I don’t have a problem with female ordination. Ive been open about that on the forum since day 1.

OK, noted. I just didn’t know about that, though I think I’ve read many of your posts during the last half year or so. Maybe I’m losing track of who (i.e. what username) represents what views, what with the large number of posters on CAF.

 

[PickyPicky]

Having observers may be common, and in that sense normal. But it really doesn’t seem normal to me to invite groups who utterly reject your religion to conferences on your religion

I thought we were past the stage where mainstream Christians described other Christians as “utterly rejecting” their religion.

To describe the World Council of Churches, or indeed the Hussites, as utterly rejecting the religion of Catholics is nonsense. There are disagreements, of course, some of them deeply felt, but “utter rejection” there is not.

 

[Roguish]

To describe the World Council of Churches, or indeed the Hussites, as utterly rejecting the religion of Catholics is nonsense. There are disagreements, of course, some of them deeply felt, but “utter rejection” there is not.

Whatever we label the disagreements, @exnihilo’s point is valid, and I was trying to make the same point with my earlier example of a soccer player at a convention meant to review the rules of field hockey. Soccer players and field-hockey players may have a certain amount of respect for each other, yes. But you don’t ask a soccer player to come to a field-hockey convention to argue his point that kicking the ball with your foot is fine. It just makes no sense. Likewise, to have someone who is fully committed to going against RC teaching, come and discuss RC principles at an RC synod, makes no sense – unless there’s a hidden agenda.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

we are, or we are meant to be. This is why more of Vatican 11 needs to be unpacked. People just aren’t getting the message of inter religious dialogue and
how if we want to be relevant in the world, we have to be in the world, we must take our message into the world. to all those sinners out there.

no use preaching to the converted. And we can also learn from other religions. we can learn what they are doing right and what they are doing wrong. and they can learn from us.

its the 21st century, why people don’t think the world isn’t observing the Catholic Church is a mystery to me.

and in observing , perhaps that is how the Holy Spirit works to strengthen the Church

we are not the secret organisation of the early church anymore.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I understand.
I would have liked to be a priest myself. I was thinking Jesuits back in high school. I did not feel any call to become a sister (especially a “modern” sister). The Lord had other ideas for me. Perhaps that was a good thing if the seminaries were hotbeds of gay sex and “new age” then as has been rumored. Father Heilman said when he went to seminary, anyone with a Marian devotion would have been thought weird. So I wouldn’t have fit in aside from being female.

I think with the current “staffing problem” in the Church, they will consider all alternatives, although I think they would prefer to stick with men if at all possible.

 

[QwertyGirl]

They need to try something old . Trying something new has been an ongoing experiment for about 50 years now, and it hasn’t worked out particularly well. (But I guess I’m painting my opinions with my broad brush again – silly me.)

Be it something old or new, I would suggest working harder to convince the younger generation that it is relevant to them. That is what is missing for those who leave. It doesn’t really matter how it is done, as long as it is done in truth and with respect and dignity. .

 

[Tis_Bearself]

To describe the World Council of Churches, or indeed the Hussites, as utterly rejecting the religion of Catholics is nonsense. There are disagreements, of course, some of them deeply felt, but “utter rejection” there is not.

We Catholics sadly have to remember that we let Jan Hus get burned at the stake over matters we see as not that controversial today and the Pope apologized for it.
Of course, I’m sure the Hussites aren’t above exploiting that little piece of history (I’m a cynic).
But still, who’s to say in another 500 years if women priests will still be controversial or not?
It’s really up to the Lord, where he leads His Church.

 

[PickyPicky]

to have someone who is fully committed to going against RC teaching, come and discuss RC principles at an RC synod, makes no sense – unless there’s a hidden agenda

Or unless Christians of different stripes can learn from each other. Pope Francis:

“Authentic reconciliation between Christians will only be achieved when we can acknowledge each other’s gifts and learn from one another, with humility and docility, without waiting for the others to learn first“

https://cnstopstories.com/2017/01/25/christian-unity-requires-learning-from-each-other-pope-says/

 

[Roguish]

Or unless Christians of different stripes can learn from each other. Pope Francis:

But you see, that’s the point I’ve made several times already. The “female cleric” at the synod cannot possibly be there to “learn” from the Catholic Church. What are the odds of her changing her mind about her “priesthood” and agreeing to the Catholic position? That’s what I meant when I said that in her case, the “ecumenism” is strictly a one-way street.

More, generally speaking, the idea that “we should all learn from each other” sounds great, but it’s an insidious killer. It undermines the notion that some are closer to the Truth than others, and possibly even the notion that there is a Truth at all. As if dissolutes and Saints should talk to each other on equal footing; as if the Saint is yet to learn a thing or two from the dissolute.

Let’s-all-learn-from-each-other is a recipe for compromise, and compromise is a close ally of degeneracy and chaos.

 

[PickyPicky]

But you see, that’s the point I’ve made several times already. The “female cleric” at the synod cannot possibly be there to “learn” from the Catholic Church. What are the odds of her changing her mind about her “priesthood” and agreeing to the Catholic position? That’s what I meant when I said that in her case, the “ecumenism” is strictly a one-way street

Why cannot she learn from the Catholic Church? Even supposing she could not learn from Catholic teaching on the male priesthood, that is surely only a small part of Catholic teaching, and only a small part of what the bishops will be discussing.

 

[PickyPicky]

Let’s-all-learn-from-each-other is a recipe for compromise, and compromise is a close ally of degeneracy and chaos.

The popes are wrong, then. The Magisterium is wrong then. Either that or …

 

[Roguish]

Why cannot she not learn from the Catholic Church? Even supposing she could not learn from Catholic teaching on the male priesthood, that is surely only a small part of Catholic teaching, and only a small part of what the bishops will be discussing.

Your optimism is cute, but unrealistic. Look at the girl’s comments in the article. They are all about her being understood. When it comes to the Catholic view of things, she limits herself to saying that she “understands it’s a sensitive topic.” Trust me, if the article had quoted her as saying, “I am confident that I can learn a lot from the Catholic Church”, I wouldn’t be so negative about this.

The popes are wrong, then. The Magisterium is wrong then. Either that or …

Anyone, regardless of whether he’s Pope or bishop or layman, who claims that ongoing compromise is a path to Truth, is wrong. This isn’t prejudice on my part. It’s a matter of logic. One does not find the answer to 1+1 by dialoguing with people that claim it’s 3. But here indeed lies the heart of the problem: the modern ecumenical community doesn’t really believe in Truth anymore – though they say they do. What they believe in, is getting along – at all cost. In yet other words, modern Christians prefer peace over Truth, not realizing that the only true peace is the Peace of Truth.

But we (or I) have widened the discussion beyond the topic of this thread. If we return to the matter of female ordination, here’s what a very recent Pope had to say about it:

http://jimmyakin.com/library/womens-ordination-its-infallible#ordinatio

So who exactly is the one questioning Popes’ judgments? Me, or the neo-conservative clique that are willing to disregard an infallible teaching that’s only 24 years old?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

But you see, that’s the point I’ve made several times already. The “female cleric” at the synod cannot possibly be there to “learn” from the Catholic Church.

roguish, I cannot believe you would think this way. She has not been invited in the hopes she changes her mind. She has not been invited to agree to a Catholic position on life and religion.

Your proposed model of Ecumenism is a little NQR.

The Church teaches we should not reject truth, wherever it is found.
You are proposing the difference between absolute truth and relativism.

As far as learning from each other, if another religion, person, group, community has a great practice that works, or a concept that can improve a process, we don’t reject it because they are not Catholic.
We don’t say to a youth group, No, A youth group who says, we want to walk from one town to another in a public procession of our faith, in a country whose religion is more or less practiced privately. We don’t say no you can’t do it because that other religion does it .

Or, if another religion has a model for public prayer that draws people in , or wants to use our model for their prayer , for example Rosary around the Coast. well thats hardly going to lead to degeneracy or chaos, now is it.

the more prayer in the world the better.

 

[Roguish]

Or, if another religion has a model for public prayer that draws people in , or wants to use our model for their prayer , for example Rosary around the Coast. well thats hardly going to lead to degeneracy or chaos, now is it.

Yes Rose. But currently we’re not discussing prayer practices. We’re discussing female ordination as evinced by the presence of a priestess at the synod.

the more prayer in the world the better.

Amen to that.