The only singing I hear at Mass comes from cantors

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PatienceAndLove said:
Yes, but we are called to make a joyful noise unto the Lord, He never said it had to sound good 😉
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My mother always said that the lord gave you your voice so he wants to hear. It doesn’t matter if it is out of tune. It’s the fact that you are signing and praise his name!
 
What’s a poor Choir Director to do?
Parishioners general complaints to the priest:
  1. I hate it when they go over new music when I’m trying to pray
  2. I hate it when they don’t teach us the new mass parts
  3. I hate those guitar players
  4. I love those beautiful songs picked softly on guitar
  5. Good grief. Do they have to sing those same old songs again?
  6. Why don’t they sing the songs we know? I don’t know the new ones.
  7. Why don’t they sing the psalm as printed (many don’t have tunes written for them - so they are substituted for those that do have melodies and fit the readings liturgically)
  8. Do they have to play that organ so loud?
  9. I can’t even hear the organ when we sing
    etc., etc., etc.,
We each do our best according to our own abilities and God given talent.
 
After 60 posts on a topic, I wonder who is still reading?

Anyway, some very good points have been made, and I think that deep in every Catholic’s heart (and intellect) is the knowledge that the Mass, in itself, is our worship of God and in it, Christ is offering Himself to His Father in our name.

Protestants do not have that. I have never heard a Protestant say that during their services on Sunday that it is that action of Christ. It’s more that they are doing something which is Christ centered. They have their ritual which is to give worship to God and an essential part of that is the singing, whether in four parts or not.

I have been in Catholic churches where the hymn singing was weak, but the singing of the common parts (Holy, Holy, etc.) was much, much better. Again, I think it was the basic Catholic instinct that herein lies our worship - the liturgy and that which belongs to it.

Some call the “gathering” and the “sending forth” hymns marching music. I think that may be more accurate than it seems at first glance. The gathering song (entrance hymn) was intended to reflect the entrance antiphon of the Mass. Does it?
 
johnnykins said:
Some observations:
  1. I have never been to a Catholic Church that has 4 part pew hymnals - yet EVERY Presbyterian Church I’ve been to has pew hymnals with 4 part music. Maybe, just maybe, not everyone can sing soprano.
  2. VERY OFTEN - there is no music AT ALL attached to the words (generously correctly provided only MOST of the time - at my own church at least 25% of the time the words being sung for the Responsorial Psalm are NOT what is printed). I can’t imagine why people won’t sing when they don’t know the music or lyrics.
  3. The hymns are unknown, syncopated, with too a wide a range or just plain lousy. My guess is most of the people in the pews would have an easier time with simple familiar songs that are not so assinine as is the usual dreck at most Masses.
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I always wonder about the complaints regarding hymnals with only one part, etc. Most people that I know either cannot read music at all and thus sing along with the melody that they hear, can read music but are not used to reading in in the context of singing (instrumentalists), or cannot find their part within a large group without a LOT of prompting. Few people receive adequate vocal musical training that would permit them to pick up a four-part hymn and join in the appropriate voice. In fact, I would bet that not everyone in the congregation knows which part they should sing.

Thus, 1 and 2 are certainly valid points, but I’m not sure how applicable they are to the average Catholic parish. An easier strategy seems to be appropriate hymn choice (your point #3): people who won’t bother singing with Haas dreck will raise the roof for “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name.” I’ve seen this phenomenon over and over in many different parishes. The people have indeed spoken (or sung); they want better music for Mass. I with those in charge of parish liturgies would take notice.
 
ltbpoe43 said:
What’s a poor Choir Director to do?
Parishioners general complaints to the priest:
  1. I hate it when they go over new music when I’m trying to pray
  2. I hate it when they don’t teach us the new mass parts
  3. I hate those guitar players
  4. I love those beautiful songs picked softly on guitar
  5. Good grief. Do they have to sing those same old songs again?
  6. Why don’t they sing the songs we know? I don’t know the new ones.
  7. Why don’t they sing the psalm as printed (many don’t have tunes written for them - so they are substituted for those that do have melodies and fit the readings liturgically)
  8. Do they have to play that organ so loud?
  9. I can’t even hear the organ when we sing
    etc., etc., etc.,
We each do our best according to our own abilities and God given talent.
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Join the cathedral parish where you won’t have to listen to guitars 😃 :rotfl:I like loud organs! Welcome to the Forums!

SeekerJen: I think you hit the nail right on the head. The people do want better music for Mass. And I have to think that our traditional music program is one (among many factors) of why our cathedral parish in 1983 had less than 200 parishoners and why we have 1200 + families now. Dropping out of the “sacro-pop” “latest most fashionable hymn or Mass setting” by Haugen and Haas et al and going back to traditional Catholic music works. We don’t need to be tracking the “top 40”. I repeat it again…when was the last time anyone heard “Sons of God, Hear His Holy Word” or “And They’ll Know We are Christians”?

Sing Immaculate Mary in May and I’ll bet they’ll raise the roof.
 
Beno said:
Hello again, it’s been a while. (Computer crashed and died.)

As a musician and devoted Catholic, my cross is to attend Sunday Mass and experience what appears to be dead, obligatory worship. I play and sing at a Presbyterian church with a continuing history of excellent congregational, choral, and solo singing. I then go to Mass at any of several area churches and experience a near total lack of sound coming from the assembly. They seem too willing to let the cantor/song leader do all the singing and in turn the cantor is too willing to sing for them. The role of the cantor has turned into that as a soloist for the entire Mass. What can we do to change this so that the assembly can take ownership of what is rightfully theirs?
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Speaking as one of the voices no one would want to hear, I’m happy when a good singer can be heard.

I’m more unhappy with bad singers who insist on being in the rotation.

Which reminds me, I’m not nearly as self concious about singing along when there is a good organ and sound system that can play that first octave, true bass, really loud. It just gives everything a fuller sound and encourages participation.
 
Straight from Catholic Answers:

There are thus four options for the entrance song:
  1. the entrance antiphon and psalm of the “Roman Gradual”;
  2. the entrance antiphon and psalm of the “Simple Gradual”;
  3. song from other collections of psalms and antiphons;
  4. other sacred song chosen in accord with the above criterion.
The entrance antiphon is a seasonal (e.g. Christmas, Easter, Ordinary Time) verse from the Bible accompanied by a psalm. On Sunday Masses, the entrance hymn is usually linked to the prescribed entrance antiphon and psalm of the day. Thus, you would not hear “We Three Kings” sung as the entrance antiphon on Palm Sunday. Usually the entrance antiphon (hymn) on Sundays is going to have something to do with the written entrance antiphon and psalm. In daily Masses where there is no singing the entrance antiphon and psalm are recited as in 1 and 2 above.
 
Our parish has the “hootenanny” (kids, guitars, etc.) at the 9:30 Sunday mass. The adult choir, of which I’m a new member, sings one vigil mass and three 11:30 Sunday masses a month with our director, who is also a cantor. The schedule was breakneck for Easter. There are also masses with one female cantor. When I attend masses without the choir, I notice many people singing badly and some not at all. It seems to be all good. The only thing I feel funny about is when people don’t sing something they should be participating in (like the “Gloria”, “Allelluiah” or “Amen”, etc.) because the music is different than the version they’re used to, or because it’s too complicated. I’m sometimes grateful for one priest who doesn’t have the parishioners sing “Alleluiah” when it’s time for the Gospel. There were times I’d be near a voice so awful it would make me cringe. Then came time for the sign of peace, I’d turn around and there would be the sweetest people with those awful voices. I’m learning to tolerate bad singing from good people. There are some very good singers in the pews. Thank heaven for them – and for the bad singers.
😉
 
brotherhrolf said:
Straight from Catholic Answers:

There are thus four options for the entrance song:
  1. the entrance antiphon and psalm of the “Roman Gradual”;
  2. the entrance antiphon and psalm of the “Simple Gradual”;
  3. song from other collections of psalms and antiphons;
  4. other sacred song chosen in accord with the above criterion.
The entrance antiphon is a seasonal (e.g. Christmas, Easter, Ordinary Time) verse from the Bible accompanied by a psalm. On Sunday Masses, the entrance hymn is usually linked to the prescribed entrance antiphon and psalm of the day. Thus, you would not hear “We Three Kings” sung as the entrance antiphon on Palm Sunday. Usually the entrance antiphon (hymn) on Sundays is going to have something to do with the written entrance antiphon and psalm. In daily Masses where there is no singing the entrance antiphon and psalm are recited as in 1 and 2 above.
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I have only heard version number 4 at Sunday Masses. At daily Mass in my parish, where there is no singing, the priest just walks out of the sacristy and starts Mass with the Sign of the Cross. No psalm is read.
 
DL82 said:
I always remember at my old Church of Scotland church where I grew up, an elderly man who was going deaf, he would still sing the psalms at the top of his voice. Someone told me he used to be a presenter (like a cantor for a church with no organ) in his old church as a younger man. There was something really inspiring about his out-of-tune booming. It always made me feel less self-conscious in church, it also gave everybody else good cause to sing loudly to drown him out 😉

You could always try that tactic 😛
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So, then, I should try singing obnoxiously in order to encourage more singing! :rotfl: jk. My church already has people in the pews joining in the singing with an organ to make a joyful noise unto the Lord.😉
 
This is a disappointing phenomenon, which I’ve noticed as well. It appears to be a particularly American, or maybe European thing. My wife and I attended Mass while on vacation in Montego Bay, Jamaica, and let me tell you… some catholics really sing!! Holy cow! The Mass was two hours long… a slightly longer homily than we’re used to in the States, but most of the extra time was in how much singing was done by the congregation and how long the songs sung were. If I recall correctly, the Allelujah before the Gospel reading was at least 5 minutes long. It was AWESOME!

I don’t know what can be done to shape things up here in America. For my part, I just sing as best I can at any opportunity. I get some looks from other Mass attendees, but I like to think that’s because of my volume rather than because I’m off-pitch. (I was a protestant choir boy a long time ago… in what seems a galaxy far far away…)

It’s easier at my parish tho as my priest has a Masters degree in music, and our organist and cantor are excellent. So there’s lots of excellent singing and chants anyway.
 
I do wish church musicians would get it into their heads that most of us in the pews really don’t want to sing. The pitch is too high, we can’t follow the cantor anyway and none of us recognize the songs the cantors keep inflicting on us. The only time anybody in my parish sings is when it’s Christmas carols, the Our Father or Salve Regina. 😊
 
dympnha said:
I do wish church musicians would get it into their heads that most of us in the pews really don’t want to sing. The pitch is too high, we can’t follow the cantor anyway and none of us recognize the songs the cantors keep inflicting on us. The only time anybody in my parish sings is when it’s Christmas carols, the Our Father or Salve Regina. 😊
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My parish actually sang today, at least during the entrance and recessional hymns. Entrance hymn was “Jesus Christ Is Risen Today” by Wesley. Recessional hymn was “Crown Him with Many Crowns” by Bridges. Everybody knew those. The soprano cantor held back except during her solo during Communion (she sang "Lamb of God’ by Twila Paris).
 
We sang a real mixed bag of music in church today – Beethoven, Bach, Taize, and newer songs (the kind in the OCP hymnal). It sounded like the congregation was actually singing along with most of it (up in the choir loft, we can’t actually hear everyone’s singing over the organ, but there is enough of a time delay that we can catch the end of the congregations’ singing after we finish).

Last week, I attended Mass at another parish which has apparently begun to have a Mass at which all the music is Gregorian chant (don’t know whether it is permanent, or just for Easter season). The congregation is actually expected to sing along, and there are song sheets with the Latin words (the organ isn’t used for this, just the cantor, who has a wonderful voice). I really wanted to sing along, but, being a visitor, I didn’t realize I was supposed to take a song sheet before taking my seat, and I didn’t have the words.

It will be interesting to see of the parishioners actually start singing the chant.
 
Beno said:
Hello again, it’s been a while. (Computer crashed and died.)

As a musician and devoted Catholic, my cross is to attend Sunday Mass and experience what appears to be dead, obligatory worship. I play and sing at a Presbyterian church with a continuing history of excellent congregational, choral, and solo singing. I then go to Mass at any of several area churches and experience a near total lack of sound coming from the assembly. They seem too willing to let the cantor/song leader do all the singing and in turn the cantor is too willing to sing for them. The role of the cantor has turned into that as a soloist for the entire Mass. What can we do to change this so that the assembly can take ownership of what is rightfully theirs?
Click to expand...
You would’ve been pleased with my cousin’s church’s Mass when we went for his 1st Holy Communion. They sing EVERYTHING! (ok, so maybe some were off by one word or two, and occasionally off note. :))
 
dympnha said:
I do wish church musicians would get it into their heads that most of us in the pews really don’t want to sing. The pitch is too high, we can’t follow the cantor anyway and none of us recognize the songs the cantors keep inflicting on us. The only time anybody in my parish sings is when it’s Christmas carols, the Our Father or Salve Regina. 😊
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I wish the congregation would get it into their heads that in many cases, the choirs and cantors sing what is handed to them and don’t otherwise have a choice (except to walk out). That’s our job. I sing the music as it’s written, regardless of the key. If it’s high, sometimes the organist will thoughtfully transpose it lower (which is good because I can’t reach the stratospheric notes either), but not always. I have absolutely no say in the music chosen for Masses. Our parish music director does a decent job, but is often overridden by our pastor or youth director, both of whom prefer the “kumbaya”-type hymns. I’ve walked into the church 30 minutes before Mass for my warm-up only to find out that all of the music I’d practiced during the previous week has been scrapped in favor of some awful dreck that neither I nor the congregation knew, simply because the lyrics tied in somehow with the scripture readings.

I also wish that music publishers wouldn’t publish songs written with 2-octave ranges as “intended for congregational singing”.
 
CarolAnnSFO said:
Last week, I attended Mass at another parish which has apparently begun to have a Mass at which all the music is Gregorian chant (don’t know whether it is permanent, or just for Easter season). The congregation is actually expected to sing along, and there are song sheets with the Latin words (the organ isn’t used for this, just the cantor, who has a wonderful voice). I really wanted to sing along, but, being a visitor, I didn’t realize I was supposed to take a song sheet before taking my seat, and I didn’t have the words.

It will be interesting to see of the parishioners actually start singing the chant.
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Do they have any pronunciation guides on the sheets? I could not sing Latin because I never learned any and do not know the pronunciations.
 
SeekerJen said:
I also wish that music publishers wouldn’t publish songs written with 2-octave ranges as “intended for congregational singing”.
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Of course, our government is just as guilty as the church music publishers. I cannot sing the National Anthem either. By the time it gets to “rockets red glare, bombs bursting in air” my voice bursts and cracks.
 
lak611 said:
Do they have any pronunciation guides on the sheets? I could not sing Latin because I never learned any and do not know the pronunciations.
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I don’t know if there was a pronunciation guide – I never even saw the sheet. On the way out, I looked around to see if there was a pile of them (I was wondering how come I had missed it), and I never found them. Maybe because I came in the side door, instead of the main door in the back.

During the announcements at the end of Mass, the pastor complimented everyone on how well they were doing in learning to sing the Latin. 🙂
 
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