The ordination of women as priests

[Silyosha]

First off, let me say that I DO NOT under any circumstances agree with the ordination of women as priests. Not at all. However, I do have a sister my age who thinks that the Church’s not allowing women to become priests is unfair and sexist. She doesn’t understand why this shouldn’t be allowed when a woman could be “just as good or even better” as a man at being a priest. I think her problem with this stems from the fact that, even though the apostles were obviously all men, this could be seen as just something that made sense at the particular period in history when Christ lived rather than a specific regulation. I’m not really sure what to say to her about that, so help please. Thank you for your time.

 

[Vir_Iucundus]

Nothing our Lord Jesus Christ did was specific for that time and that space. He teached a teaching that is for ever, until His second arrival will be. He showed the Way which is for ever.
It is the teaching we learned from God (before learning from our Church), it is the teaching Adam and Eve received directly, that men and women, while equals in right and dignity, are not equals neither in their nature, nor in their ministry. Human nature does not change, neither does the divine teaching.

Of course, this is the point of view that traditionalists hold. Modernists seem to got another one.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Nothing our Lord Jesus Christ did was specific for that time and that space.

Could you point out to me where this statement is backed up by either the Bible, the teachings of the Church Fathers, or any Ecumenical Council of the Church?

It seems that a great deal of what our Lord did was specific to time and place. He curred the sick, especially during his Galilean ministry, he turned water into wine one time that we have recorded, he spoke in Synagogues at specific times. His words to Pilate were for then and there.

To the subject of the ordination of women, what about the female person or being makes her body and soul incapable of receiving holy orders? I have an open mind on this.

 

[DeniseFath]

Ditto for what Vir_Iucundus wrote. Christ was not confined by the cultural sentiments of the time and if He had wished to have women apostles, surely He would have.

I would tell your sister this: if Jesus did not choose Mary, the greatest disciple of His EVER, to be an apostle, then that surely tells us something. The Church is not being unfair or sexist, it is just under the obligation to pass along the teachings of Christ. The Church does not have the authority to edit or add to them even if it wants to (or because of social pressures).

There are many ways women can serve in the Church without being priestesses. Obedience can be a tough pill to swallow sometimes, but it’s something we must all struggle with and learn if we’re to be disciples of Christ. God bless! =)

 

[Guardian_Wolf]

I’m actually in favor of women being priests. I don’t mean to mock convents, but seriously, I’d love to be able to serve God and the Church, and Not have to do it from behind closed walls.

There are many a time I’ve wished I could start my life over again as a man, just so I could be a priest. I see no greater way to serve God, the Church, and the people.

But I keep my mouth shut and deal with my lot in life. I would never go so far as to join those RC women priests, because frankly, the Pope excommunicated all of them, and I’d rather die then be excommunicated.

But honestly, if there were ever to be one thing that would make me leave the Church and become Episcopalian, it would be the ordination of women.

Not to say that I’m going to, or even that I plan to. Just stating my opinion.

 

[Angels_Heart]

This is the one area that the catholic church and I disagree .Women could be great priests and I have wanted to be a priest until ,I found out the church does not allow .This of course was as a child . I have wanted to serve the church in some way .

 

[FAB]

First off, let me say that I DO NOT under any circumstances agree with the ordination of women as priests. Not at all. However, I do have a sister my age who thinks that the Church’s not allowing women to become priests is unfair and sexist. She doesn’t understand why this shouldn’t be allowed when a woman could be “just as good or even better” as a man at being a priest. I think her problem with this stems from the fact that, even though the apostles were obviously all men, this could be seen as just something that made sense at the particular period in history when Christ lived rather than a specific regulation. I’m not really sure what to say to her about that, so help please. Thank you for your time.

This is an issue that doesn’t go away. On another thread, an attemted to discuss the issue of a women’s role in the church including Holy Orders was chastized.
At the current time she needs to work and study to understand the teachings of the church on reasons why women are not ordained. It isn’t sexism, it is part of the tradition taken from Jesus. As you expressed, His decisions were for a time and place and the role of women at the time.
Women do serve many roles in the Church,even high level possitions on the Roman Curia, although some might and could make a point, not enough.
Tell your sister that we may disagree with the church, but we are called into obediance. It is important that she does not let an issue like this keep her from growing spiritually and experiancing the full grace of the church form God through the sacraments. Unfortunately, many see issues like this and let it interfer with thier own growth and experiance with Jesus. No were else can but in our lLord as through the Echarist.

Peace,
FAB

 

[Bluegoat]

Not choosing women as apostles isn’t really the reason women are not allowed as priests. It does have a bearing, but in another way.

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty of why women are not allowed to be priests, you need to look into a few theological ideas.

The Church’s teachings on sex (as in, gender), and what it means to be a man or a women.

The Church’s teachings on Christ’s nature, and how that relates to the question of his gender.

The Church’s teachings on what a priest is, and does, and how that relates to Christ’s gender, and the gender of the priest.

A big subject, and one that many don’t have the patience to learn about, which is why I think they rely on the argument of their being no female apostles.

 

[Timothysis]

However, I do have a sister my age who thinks that the Church’s not allowing women to become priests is unfair and sexist.

Does your sister understand that things that appear to her as “unfair and sexist” are simply her own opinion and is not the bar for the world? If we allowed all things that anyone anywhere considered “unfair and sexist” then we would have nothing but anarchy.

We all have a position in life; not everyone has the same position. People are not satisfied with their place in the world and think they have the “right” to whatever they think they deserve. It may seem “unfair” to me that my neighbor can retire at 50 and I’ll probably have to work until the day I die, but that’s just how it is. Likewise, your sister may think it “unfair and sexist” to not be able to be a priest, but that’s just how it is.

Ask your sister if she thinks it “unfair and sexist” that she has a better life than those who live below her economic, health and social level.

 

[stcalixtus]

We are called upon to be faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ, yes that means no female clergy.We are asked to be faithful even to Catholic theology we cannot understand or disagree with, and that to me is a challenge to be faithful and faithful I will be under any circumstance… I will follow the Catholic catechism, if you choose not to, maybe consult your local telphone directory and shop for an easier religion that meets your criteria.I adore women

 

[Silyosha]

We are called upon to be faithful to the teachings of Jesus Christ, yes that means no female clergy.We are asked to be faithful even to Catholic theology we cannot understand or disagree with, and that to me is a challenge to be faithful and faithful I will be under any circumstance… I will follow the Catholic catechism, if you choose not to, maybe consult your local telphone directory and shop for an easier religion that meets your criteria.I adore women

I’m definately not going to go against the catechism. It’s my sister I’m talking about.

 

[Renko]

What part of a woman shall not address the congregation don’t you understand, it is in the bible.

 

[TheDoctor]

First off, let me say that I DO NOT under any circumstances agree with the ordination of women as priests. Not at all. However, I do have a sister my age who thinks that the Church’s not allowing women to become priests is unfair and sexist. She doesn’t understand why this shouldn’t be allowed when a woman could be “just as good or even better” as a man at being a priest. I think her problem with this stems from the fact that, even though the apostles were obviously all men, this could be seen as just something that made sense at the particular period in history when Christ lived rather than a specific regulation. I’m not really sure what to say to her about that, so help please. Thank you for your time.

In May 1994 Pope John Paul II dealt with this issue in his Apostolic Letter "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. See here: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

I think if your sister reads that and the footnotes with an open mind she will see very clearly why the issue of women priests is a closed one.

 

[AngloCatholic1]

There are a myriad reasons why ancient Israel and the Christian Church have always ONLY had male priests… but the biggest reason for NOT changing this policy now is that NOTHING will be gained by it.

Back in the 1970’s the Anglican Church of Canada made the first move in the entire Anglican Communion to bring about the ordination of female priests. The “progressives” argued that “it was time”; it was for the Priesthood only, never for the position of Bishop… and it would attract people to the church becasue they would see that the church was getting with the times. The conservatives warned that this was just the FIRST step in the march toward disaster. So what happened? First, it DIVIDED the church and some conservative wings broke away from the communion. Next, years later, these same “progressives” started pushing for the acceptance (and even the ordination of) of practicing homosexuals. This split the church along even deeper lines… in fact it has all but COMPLETELY DESTROYED the Communion. Now the church has begun ordaining female BISHOPS. Lastly (and this is the real kicker) Church attendance has DROPPED drastically over this same time period, NOT risen as the “progressives” predicted.

The proof is in the pudding: Division. Schism. Declining attendance. THAT`S what ordaining females to the priesthood will bring to the Catholic Church.

 

[Spirithound]

She doesn’t understand why this shouldn’t be allowed when a woman could be “just as good or even better” as a man at being a priest.

I would suggest starting here. Ask her what she thinks a priest does.

Women can be fine counselors, but this does not encompass the Sacrament of Reconciliation fully. Women can be very good speakers, and they are certainly capable of certain gestures and words, but this does not encompass the Holy Mass and Holy Eucharist fully.

Beyond the ordinary physical and emotional aspects of the sacraments, there is a spiritual aspect, and the necessary components to achieve this spiritual aspects are not discernable by ordinary means, but rather by the teaching authority of the Church.

 

[ac_claire]

Not choosing women as apostles isn’t really the reason women are not allowed as priests. It does have a bearing, but in another way.

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty of why women are not allowed to be priests, you need to look into a few theological ideas.

The Church’s teachings on sex (as in, gender), and what it means to be a man or a women.

The Church’s teachings on Christ’s nature, and how that relates to the question of his gender.

The Church’s teachings on what a priest is, and does, and how that relates to Christ’s gender, and the gender of the priest.

A big subject, and one that many don’t have the patience to learn about, which is why I think they rely on the argument of their being no female apostles.

This is right on. One more point: entering deeper study this subject maye help you understand the Church’s teaching; it may explain the reason for the teaching, but it won’t justify the teaching. If you seek some kind of logical argument that will justify the whole thing in your mind, then you’re going at it backwards. It’s true because the Church says it is true, and the Church is the standard and bulwark of the truth. You have to come to a place where you can accept that. Easier said than done, I know.

There’s this saying that faith comes before understanding. I’ve found this to be true in several instances where I had some severe doubt about this or that teaching of the Church. The Immaculate Conception was the big one, I struggled with it for years. Finally I decided that it didn’t matter if I couldn’t understand it; I accepted it and *wanted *to believe it anyway. Once I surrendered my will in this way, even though it was slight and not very dramatic, God gave me the gift of understanding the teaching.

True faith is a gift from God when you surrender your will to his, and belief comes before understanding. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

I would suggest starting here. Ask her what she thinks a priest does.

Women can be fine counselors, but this does not encompass the Sacrament of Reconciliation fully. Women can be very good speakers, and they are certainly capable of certain gestures and words, but this does not encompass the Holy Mass and Holy Eucharist fully.

Beyond the ordinary physical and emotional aspects of the sacraments, there is a spiritual aspect, and the necessary components to achieve this spiritual aspects are not discernable by ordinary means, but rather by the teaching authority of the Church.

What do you mean by this? What spiritual aspects do women lack? What do they lack simply because of their gender? This is one of the things I have never understood about the Church.

Also, women were the first to be shown the Resurrection of Christ, and Mary Magdalen was a very important woman in the early days, and Jesus did choose her.

Side note, the bunny is adorable.

 

[SunnaB16]

What do you mean by this? What spiritual aspects do women lack? What do they lack simply because of their gender? This is one of the things I have never understood about the Church.

Also, women were the first to be shown the Resurrection of Christ, and Mary Magdalen was a very important woman in the early days, and Jesus did choose her.

If you Google “catholic women priests”, there`s an excellent article by Joanna Bogle titled
“Women Priests - No Chance”. Looks as if it was in “This Rock” magazine.

Sorry: still don`t know how to provide links.

Our Lords washing of the Apostles feet was part of their "initiation" into the Priesthood. Apparently, it was done to the Jewish priests, as well. The washing of the feet symbolized something deeper: it politely symbolized the washing of that which is between the feet, between the knees, ie the male genitals which symbolise FATHERHOOD. A woman cant “image” that. Thats also a good reason for not washing womens feet on Holy Thursday Night.

The Church is the Bride of Christ: Christ is the Bridegroom. The Bridegroom gives Life to His Bride. A woman cant "image" that. "Liturgical Lesbianism" is a term used by one speaker to describe a "priestesss" relationship with the Bride.

 

[Eris_Discordia]

If you Google “catholic women priests”, there`s an excellent article by Joanna Bogle titled
“Women Priests - No Chance”. Looks as if it was in “This Rock” magazine.

Sorry: still don`t know how to provide links.

That’s fine. I’ll look that up.

 

[Lutheranteach]

I believe in the mid 70s there was a letter written by a number of Catholic scholars saying there was no scriptural reason for women not to be ordained as priest. And, since women are ordained as deacons (as I understand it) I’m not sure what the issue is if tradition (and it seems there is a long tradition of women being ordained at various levels) and scripturally there is no problem than what’s the problem?