The ordination of women as priests

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Rence what do you think happens during the prayers of the faithful during mass, it is perfectly fine to tell each other to pray for certain things, the more praying the better.
 
Anyone who wants to have a better understanding of Faith would profit from reading a book by Rev. Henry G. Graham called What Faith Really Means, it is quite small so wont take long to read but it is life changing imo.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Why is it that those of us who agree with Church teachings (which we have carefully studied and accept as truth) are viewed as 'not thinking with our own mind?"

It’s not. But on the flipside, those who can’t reconcile something about a teaching are not neglecting to use their mind either. I don’t know of anyone in my life who would say someone who accepts the truth about Catholic teachings is not using their mind.

And yes, for the record, I accept everything the Church teaches as well. After due consideration and study. And at 53, it’s not like I haven’t had years to actually DO that kind of study.

I mean this in all sincerity: I’m really happy for you that you accept everything the Church teaches. It’s probably very liberating for you 🙂
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ac_claire said:
Rence, this is exactly the point. You seem to think that since you can’t understand the Church’s teaching on the priesthood, it can’t be true. How is that not pride? Not piling on you, remember I had the same issue with the IC…
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No, that’s not what I said. Where did I say that if I don’t undestand a Church’s teaaching it can’t be true? I simply said I don’t understand it, and that I’m not sure I accept it, and that I’d be happy if women were to be ordained, and that I pray for it. YOU all are the ones all upset because I don’t agree with it. Where in the world did you get the notion that if I don’t understand something it can’t be true? I never made the claim either way. I just disagree with it.
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
Rence;6224184:
CradleCath;6224104:
Misquoted, but it is a false premise. Because there wasnt a clear understanding of when the soul came into the body does not mean that abortion has EVER been accepted.
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I never said it was accepted. Where did I say it was ACCEPTED? I said the teaching regarding abortion changed, which it did - with regards to when a soul entered into the equation. That has nothing whatsoever to do with it ever being accepted or not. It was ALWAYS a sin. You will never find a post written by me claiming that abortion used to be accepted by the RCC.

Even if you misunderdstood my first post, it was clarified in the second and was pretty specific.
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Rence said:
No, that’s not what I said. Where did I say that if I don’t undestand a Church’s teaaching it can’t be true? I simply said I don’t understand it, and that I’m not sure I accept it, and that I’d be happy if women were to be ordained, and that I pray for it. YOU all are the ones all upset because I don’t agree with it. Where in the world did you get the notion that if I don’t understand something it can’t be true? I never made the claim either way. I just disagree with it.
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To disagree with it you must think it is wrong, ie. not true surely?
 
Rence said:
No, that’s not what I said. Where did I say that if I don’t undestand a Church’s teaaching it can’t be true? I simply said I don’t understand it, and that I’m not sure I accept it, and that I’d be happy if women were to be ordained, and that I pray for it. YOU all are the ones all upset because I don’t agree with it. Where in the world did you get the notion that if I don’t understand something it can’t be true? I never made the claim either way. I just disagree with it.
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So, you know it’s true, but you still don’t believe it?
 
Eris_Discordia said:
I think that if you have studied and thought about it and prayed about it, then you are most certainly using your own mind, as long as those conclusions reached are from your own mind and heart.(Which, from your end statement, it seems like you have) Conversely, I could ask the opposite, why are those who disagree looked down upon as heretics and “corrupt”, when they are also doing the same? Especially if we happen to be younger (I’m almost 21, and not even out of college). Not saying you, but some others tend to jump on people who disagree, even if they have done a lot of thinking and research on the subject as well.
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You know, the human element of the CC has always been like that though. When they had the power, if someone didn’t agree with them, they’d torture or kill them, or at the very least put them under house arrest for “heresy”. I guess it wasn’t enough just to excommunicate them or banish them, or heaven forbid perhap assign catechism classes to them since it was sooooooooo important that everyone believed everything they said. No, they had to completely destroy them. I certainly never saw someone struck down by the Hand of God because they didn’t understand or agree with a teaching of the CC, that’s for sure.

Now they can’t do such things, but they sure can beat a dead horse about it, can’t they?
Because if you don’t agree with them, then it’s obvious you didn’t do your research or or don’t have faith, or whatever.

For heavens sake, if you think someone is in err, PROVE it. You say you research and think yadda yadda, but I don’t see that. I see a small group of people trying to make me swallow what they dish out without anything to back it up. I’m not going to blindly believe you just because you SAY I have to, or else I’m a “heretic”. On the flipside if I still don’t get it, despite studying the subject, it’ll be up to God and me, won’t it?
 
ac_claire said:
So, you know it’s true, but you still don’t believe it?
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Nope. I said I don’t believe it, that I’m not convinced. Therefore it is neither truth nor lie, but merely something I don’t understand, or accept.

You know I have patiently answered everyones questions on top of questions, you all not being satifsifed with my answers and reasking the same questions, twisting my answers and asking the same questions again. But here, I have one for you. Please all of you answer it:

Why is it so important that I believe what YOU are saying?
 
Advocatus_Fidei said:
But what is the source of the faith, who are you putting faith in? This is key.

I am not saying faith and reason are mutually exclusive I am trying to point out that faith requires trust, sometimes unconditional, in the source of faith, for a Catholic that source we put our faith in is God who teaches us through His Church, if you do not have faith in the Church but believe you know better then you do not have what is understood by Catholics as Faith.

Faith can exist without any understanding at all, it needs humility and trust but not understanding. At the same time Faith in my experience actually supports reason and reason when correctly used supports Faith.
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I understand that completely, and I don’t believe that I know better than people who have studied for years and years, and that’s not what I am saying at all. I do not disagree that faith is unconditional trust. Believe me, my mother is Catholic, and she has unconditional faith in God and Jesus, and I respect that to the fullest. Again I was stating what I thought, not really saying anything about being right or wrong, but my own understanding. If you took it as me trying to school people, I apologize sincerely. I admit I don’t have all the answers, which is why I am still searching for my own. Honestly, I think unconditional faith is beautiful, and I respect it. I really do not mean any disrespect, and if you took what I wrote in a disrespectful way, again, I apologize.

Also, is this book you are suggesting available online? I would like to read it, and I am short on funds. Thanks 😃
 
Rence said:
Nope. I said I don’t believe it, that I’m not convinced. Therefore it is neither truth nor lie, but merely something I don’t understand, or accept.
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It is fine to not understand.

I don’t understand how bread and wine is turned into the body and blood of Christ, I don’t understand how Jesus turned water into wine, I don’t understand how Peter walked on water, I don’t understand how the blind man was cured, I don;t understand how a man can be dead and then come back to life etc. etc.

However it is not fine to call yourself a Catholic when you do not have any faith in the Church and refuse to believe her when she tells you that God does not accept women into His Priesthood.

You have a decision to make.
 
Eris_Discordia said:
I understand that completely, and I don’t believe that I know better than people who have studied for years and years, and that’s not what I am saying at all. I do not disagree that faith is unconditional trust. Believe me, my mother is Catholic, and she has unconditional faith in God and Jesus, and I respect that to the fullest. Again I was stating what I thought, not really saying anything about being right or wrong, but my own understanding. If you took it as me trying to school people, I apologize sincerely. I admit I don’t have all the answers, which is why I am still searching for my own. Honestly, I think unconditional faith is beautiful, and I respect it. I really do not mean any disrespect, and if you took what I wrote in a disrespectful way, again, I apologize.

Also, is this book you are suggesting available online? I would like to read it, and I am short on funds. Thanks 😃
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Its only 6$!!! lol

But yes you can download it from the link below, the .PDF format is normally best.

archive.org/details/whatfaithreallym00grahiala
 
michaeldaniels said:
Do you realize how ridiculous your argument sounds coming from a self proclaimed “discordian”? I thought you only believed in chaos?
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Wow, That is an EXTREMELY poor misunderstanding of Discordianism. :ehh: If you want to attack the argument, fine, but to attack it because of my faith, which you know nothing about is a whole different story.
 
Silyosha said:
First off, let me say that I DO NOT under any circumstances agree with the ordination of women as priests. Not at all. However, I do have a sister my age who thinks that the Church’s not allowing women to become priests is unfair and sexist. She doesn’t understand why this shouldn’t be allowed when a woman could be “just as good or even better” as a man at being a priest. I think her problem with this stems from the fact that, even though the apostles were obviously all men, this could be seen as just something that made sense at the particular period in history when Christ lived rather than a specific regulation. I’m not really sure what to say to her about that, so help please. Thank you for your time.
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Unfortunetly she’s fallen into the trap of putting modern ultra-liberal feminist beliefs over the teachings of Jesus Christ. Patiently explain to her that the Church can not alter the teachings of God, merely pass them on. Here is a good starting point for explaining this to her:

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02os.htm

You can probably find more at cathlic.com, this rock.
 
Advocatus_Fidei said:
It is fine to not understand.

**See, that’s what I’ve been saying all along: I don’t get it, I don’t understand it. It doesn’t make sense to me. It doesn’t fit. **

However it is not fine to call yourself a Catholic when you do not have any faith in the Church and refuse to believe her when she tells you that God does not allow a woman to become a Catholic Priest.

**See that’s another thing I find kind of odd. In order to leave the Church you have to formally petition the diocese because once you’re baptized catholic, the church sees you as catholic forever. And I have no intention of petitioning the diocese for formal leave of the Church. I intend to live as I have always lived. There really isn’t much to change really…

Again, Catholics don’t have to believe everything they are taught, they just need to follow the rules, and I don’t need to decide anything else but that.
**
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crazzeto said:
Unfortunetly she’s fallen into the trap of putting modern ultra-liberal feminist beliefs over the teachings of Jesus Christ. Patiently explain to her that the Church can not alter the teachings of God, merely pass them on. Here is a good starting point for explaining this to her:

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02os.htm

You can probably find more at cathlic.com, this rock.
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Thanks for the link, even though it wasn’t specifically for me 🙂 I’ll print it out and read it and discuss it with my priest.
 
Not a personal attack…I apologize if it seemed as such…I was actually hoping to try to understand what it is exactly you believe in a worship as a discordian…in my limited knowledge of what I know about Discordians makes it difficult for me to picture a discordian on a Catholic website arguing faith and morals…and for or against matters such as women’s ordination.
Eris_Discordia said:
Wow, That is an EXTREMELY poor misunderstanding of Discordianism. :ehh: If you want to attack the argument, fine, but to attack it because of my faith, which you know nothing about is a whole different story.
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Rence said:
Thanks for the link, even though it wasn’t specifically for me 🙂 I’ll print it out and read it and discuss it with my priest.
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Hey, no problem 🙂

Edit
BTW, I would also read the scripture references when they come up. If you have a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church handy I would also refer to that.
 
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