The Ordination Of Women Priests

[Nicea325]

patg:

While the blatantly self-serving arguments against women priests presented here are focused on the actual priesthood, there is an even more insidious result from this that also needs to be considered.

Secularism,individuallism and relativism at its best! Its got nothing to do with our opinions,but God’s Truth. You either reject it or accept it. God makes no errors.

I am referring the total banning of the (name removed by moderator)ut of half the membership of the church from the church’s magisterium - the pope and bishops.

Banning? Where do you get your information half of the membership is being banned? Care to show one women in the NT presenting the same protests as yours?

Since women are denied the priesthood, they are by default denied (name removed by moderator)ut to this group which solely has the task of teaching and interpreting the truths of the faith.

Then you have an issue with Almighty God-right? Jesus also chose 12 men and not one women? Explain how you a mere finite creature know better than an INFINITE GOD?

Thus all decisions for every catholic are reached by ignoring the insight and inspiration of half the church’s membership.

Sources please. I want to read where the church is ignoring half of the faithful?

The concept that god only speaks to men, only gives teaching authority to men, and does not give women any unique inspiration is simply untenable.

Apparently you need to read your Bible and church documents more closely or frequently. The church does not hold or teach any concept that God only speaks to men,if so, please show us the documents confirming such a declaration?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

While the blatantly self-serving arguments against women priests presented here are focused on the actual priesthood, there is an even more insidious result from this that also needs to be considered.

Insidious? Where is the 2,000+ year old secret plot here to exclude women? Quite the contrary, the Church has spken consistently on this subject through the centuries.

I am referring the total banning of the (name removed by moderator)ut of half the membership of the church from the church’s magisterium - the pope and bishops. Since women are denied the priesthood, they are by default denied (name removed by moderator)ut to this group which solely has the task of teaching and interpreting the truths of the faith.

Do you think that women religious have no influence whatsoever in Church matters?

Do the think the Church (She, that is) does not honor women and their undeniably special role in the life of the Church and all humanity?

Does the Church not revere the saintly, men and women alike?

Are there not female Doctors of the Church, whose teachings influence doctrine and dogma?

Does the Church ignore the Mother of Our Lord, and not heed to her fervent pleas?

BTW - there were 23 rather significant women who attended Vatican II at the invitation of Blessed Pope John XXIII - perhaps they can be considered in your analysis …

 

[Nimzovik]

In regard to those that erroneously wish to ordain women Priests –

I am slowly realizing that to debate with those who wish to be ignorant of the facts is a waste of time.

One often realizes one is brought down to their level and beaten with experience there.

 

[Nicea325]

In regard to those that erroneously wish to ordain women Priests –

I am slowly realizing that to debate with those who wish to be ignorant of the facts is a waste of time.

One often realizes one is brought down to their level and beaten with experience there.

It is a waste of time. Their only concern is their personal agenda and how it must be accepted.

 

[Nimzovik]

Precisely. We waste our breath with such. After the topic goes so far, after the correct answers are given, and it is not heard, then it is time to shake the dust off the sandals methinks.

 

[adrift]

While the blatantly self-serving arguments against women priests presented here are focused on the actual priesthood, there is an even more insidious result from this that also needs to be considered…

Self-serving? Who are you referring to?

I am referring the total banning of the (name removed by moderator)ut of half the membership of the church from the church’s magisterium - the pope and bishops.

Is it really true that the Church is divided evenly male and female?

Since women are denied the priesthood, they are by default denied (name removed by moderator)ut to this group which solely has the task of teaching and interpreting the truths of the faith. Thus

As already pointed out, this is false. The obvious question is who ordained this? As been documented already, God is the one who made this decision.

all decisions for every catholic are reached by

The inspiration and protection of the Holy Spirit.

ignoring the insight and inspiration of half the church’s membership.

Again that half It has been well established that this is false. Inspiration comes from God not a mere human.

The concept that god only speaks to men, only gives teaching authority to men, and does not give women any unique inspiration is simply untenable

Already proved false. Nice flaming rhetoric sputtering to nothing.

Do you think that women religious have no influence whatsoever in Church matters?

Do the think the Church (She, that is) does not honor women and their undeniably special role in the life of the Church and all humanity?

Does the Church not revere the saintly, men and women alike?

Are there not female Doctors of the Church, whose teachings influence doctrine and dogma?

Does the Church ignore the Mother of Our Lord, and not heed to her fervent pleas?

BTW - there were 23 rather significant women who attended Vatican II at the invitation of Blessed Pope John XXIII - perhaps they can be considered in your analysis …

 

[patg]

Insidious? Where is the 2,000+ year old secret plot here to exclude women? Quite the contrary, the Church has spoken consistently on this subject through the centuries.

OK, its definitely not secret!

Do you think that women religious have no influence whatsoever in Church matters?

I think that sums it up

Do the think the Church (She, that is) does not honor women and their undeniably special role in the life of the Church and all humanity?

Honor is a lot different than allowing participation

Does the Church not revere the saintly, men and women alike?

Reverence is a lot different than allowing participation

Are there not female Doctors of the Church, whose teachings influence doctrine and dogma?

Yes there are - something impressive like 2 out of 100.

Does the Church ignore the Mother of Our Lord, and not heed to her fervent pleas?

Not sure how that is relevant.

BTW - there were 23 rather significant women who attended Vatican II at the invitation of Blessed Pope John XXIII - perhaps they can be considered in your analysis …

23 out of how many? and “attended” does not indicate anything about their participation, especially since they are by definition barred from significant decisions

 

[Holly3278]

We will never have womyn priests. We don’t need them. The Church has only ever ordained men and will only ever ordain men and that is the way it should be. I say this as a woman myself.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Honor is a lot different than allowing participation

Reverence is a lot different than allowing participation

You’ve just proven the point. The priesthood and the episcopacy are not the only means by which that faithful (men and women alike) “participate” in the life of the Church.

 

[Nicea325]

You’ve just proven the point. The priesthood and the episcopacy are not the only means by which that faithful (men and women alike) “participate” in the life of the Church.

Exactly!

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by patg

Honor is a lot different than allowing participation

And participation has nothing to do with a calling and ordination. And how are women not allowed to participate in the Liturgy?

Reverence is a lot different than allowing participation

And how are women not allowed to display reverence by not being allowed to participate?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

So I’m just curious.

Where exactly does one get the ‘correct’ understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches, if one does not embrace all its doctrinal and dogmatic teachings wholeheartedly?

Who is actually teaching us truth? Is it the Holy Spirit? How can this be, if the ‘Spirit’ is teaching ‘against’ revealed truth?

Where are examples (doctrinal examples) where the Holy Spirit first taught a dogmatic or doctrinal truth, such as that Christ is true God, one in Being with the Father, and then ‘turrned around’, reversed that and taught that Christ is a creature, AND then the SECOND teaching was made the teaching of the entire Church, thus ‘reversing’ the original?

(Because you know of course that there were indeed movements in Christian history where revealed truths WERE questioned --the above being the example of Arianism–where thousands of thousands of ‘enlightened’ priests, bishops, and laity eagerly embraced the ‘second’ teaching and were SURE it would in time ‘bump’ the first teaching.)

And where is Arianism today?

I cannot think of a SINGLE revealed truth of the Catholic Church which has been ‘reversed’ such that the Church believed X at point A and now believes ‘notX’ at point B.

I do, however, feel sorry in a way for the Arians. They were the ‘moderns’ of their times, so sure they ‘knew better’ than everybody else. . . so blind because they were focused not on God as He is, but God as they ‘wanted Him to be’. . .

Just as these advocates for change in the Church --female ordination being just ONE of the things they would like to see ‘gone’–are doing–they are making up a God in their image who does things the way THEY think is right, and not interested in a God who asks them to do as HE thinks is right. . .

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4). Pope John Paul II.
Yup.

All you liberals, with the white and pink scalps,it ain’t going to happen–ever.

 

[patg]

I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4). Pope John Paul II.

Authority can be given, denied, and taken away. Too bad JP II didn’t think he had it…God is perfectly capable of granting the authority to someone else as God sees fit.

All you liberals, with the white and pink scalps,it ain’t going to happen–ever.

Apparently you are reading are reading a bit too much into the term “authority”. He didn’t say it was impossible (actually it sounds like you don’t want it too happen). Neither of us has any control over what god authorizes or when.

Get over it. If this is such a make or break issue, there’s the door–perhaps you can join the sinking ship of Anglicanism or join one of the liberal schismatics of tiny membership

I *am *over it - God will authorize it when ready (being over it doesn’t make it any less ridiculous).

Maybe you can explain what part of the male anatomy is necessary and uniquely required for the priestly duties, or how God authorizes the consecration of pedophiles, rapist, or men who cover up serious crimes but not women…

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Authority can be given, denied, and taken away. Too bad JP II didn’t think he had it…God is perfectly capable of granting the authority to someone else as God sees fit.

Apparently you are reading are reading a bit too much into the term “authority”. He didn’t say it was impossible (actually it sounds like you don’t want it too happen). Neither of us has any control over what god authorizes or when.

I *am *over it - God will authorize it when ready (being over it doesn’t make it any less ridiculous).

Maybe you can explain what part of the male anatomy is necessary and uniquely required for the priestly duties, or how God authorizes the consecration of pedophiles, rapist, or men who cover up serious crimes but not women…

Really? You are going to claim that we can take authority away from God? We can ‘give’ Him authority? Or deny Him?

Because you see, Pat, your entire argument is based on a false premise. That premise is that the Church, when it speaks of authority, is speaking of a ‘human’ authority, and not a divine.

The point is not whether a woman needs ‘male parts’. The Church, bless it, does not and never has claimed that. That is a strawman.

The point is that the Church has no authority to ordain women.

And that has nothing to do with all the other little strawmen you are trying to claim as well.

Gee, Pat, Jesus died for us all . . .and yet you run screaming from the idea that He ALSO instituted the priesthood for men specifically. . .

**Why is that? **