The Ordination Of Women Priests

[370202]

Modern societies, quite rightly in my view, espouse equal rights and equal opportunities for women. It has long been the Church’s position, as I understand it, that we are all equal in the eyes of God. The Church is in desperate need of more priests and yet it will not countenance the ordination of women, thereby severely limiting the pool of potential priests.

My personal instinct, albeit potentially ill-informed, is to support the ordination of women.

The Church’s opposition must I am sure be based upon an honestly held belief that it would be contrary to the will of God to do otherwise and that position must be informed by a particular interpretation of sacred scripture. I would be interested to learn and understand the scripture which informs the Church’s position in this matter. Any guidance would be very much appreciated.

 

[mangy_dog]

Modern societies, quite rightly in my view, espouse equal rights and equal opportunities for women. It has long been the Church’s position, as I understand it, that we are all equal in the eyes of God. The Church is in desperate need of more priests and yet it will not countenance the ordination of women, thereby severely limiting the pool of potential priests.

My personal instinct, albeit potentially ill-informed, is to support the ordination of women.

The Church’s opposition must I am sure be based upon an honestly held belief that it would be contrary to the will of God to do otherwise and that position must be informed by a particular interpretation of sacred scripture. I would be interested to learn and understand the scripture which informs the Church’s position in this matter. Any guidance would be very much appreciated.

Very ill-informed and advised. Catholic support would probably be the beginning of full apostasy. Be that as it may…,

The priesthood since time immemorial has always been male only. The Apostles were consecrated by Jesus himself and in turn the Apostles consecrated the line of bishops and priests that still continues to this date.

If you are looking to Scripture alone (sola scriptura), you would be missing the fullness of the desposit of faith by two other sources: Tradition maintained in the Magisterium of the Catholic Church and Divine Revelation.

The priest is " in persona Christi" or standing in for the person of Christ.

There are entire Episcopalian and Anglican communities that are leaving their respective churches and coming to the Catholic church, precisely because of this abomination.

It is an abomination that would cause desolation.

 

[animalis]

If you are looking to Scripture alone (sola scriptura), you would be missing the fullness of the desposit of faith by two other sources: Tradition maintained in the Magisterium of the Catholic Church and Divine Revelation.

The ideas behind your answer of which you convey suit well for the issue presented in the OP. Scripture alone cannot give the certainly on this issue. Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium are the two sources I believe you were meaning to specifiy. Those two and Sacred Scripture consist in harmony as Divine Revelation.

See Dei Verbum by click here and scroll to number 10 vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

I am ignorant of the Divine Revelation cited for the presentation of the Church’s stance on male ordination.

 

[mangy_dog]

The ideas behind your answer of which you convey suit well for the issue presented in the OP. Scripture alone cannot give the certainly on this issue. Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium are the two sources I believe you were meaning to specifiy. Those two and Sacred Scripture consist in harmony as Divine Revelation.

See Dei Verbum by click here and scroll to number 10 vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

I am ignorant of the Divine Revelation cited for the presentation of the Church’s stance on male ordination.

Yes, 3 sources-full deposit of faith. Yes, you are correct.

 

[zz912]

To be a little more specific, the Church has NO AUTHORITY to change the priesthood to allow women priests. The priesthood was set up by Christ and the Church doesn’t have authority to change what He laid down.

To truly understand why there can not be women priests, you have to understand the Mass, the Eucharist, “in persona Christi”, and the sacrifice of the Mass better. The priest uses the words of Christ to consecrate the Eucharist, and acts in His person to call down the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine into the Body and Blood.

 

[Petersmate]

My personal instinct, albeit potentially ill-informed,

Well since when does personal instinct come part of theology.

And not much ill-informed but more like ignorant

 

[animalis]

To truly understand why there can not be women priests, you have to understand the Mass, the Eucharist, “in persona Christi”

It seems to me natural law might pertain to this, as far as it is natural in the priest, being that Jesus was a male, and we should see his sacrifice as a male act. I do not know but I would guess that gender relationships would fall under natural law. I would not leave the natural discernment of this solely to my own light.

 

[sedonaman]

Those who want a Ford should go to a Ford dealer; those who want a Chevvy should go to a Chevvy dealer.

 

[Brod337]

From ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS

"*4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.*" - John Paul II, 1994

Pretty definitive in my opinion…

 

[mangy_dog]

The ideas behind your answer of which you convey suit well for the issue presented in the OP. Scripture alone cannot give the certainly on this issue. Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium are the two sources I believe you were meaning to specifiy. Those two and Sacred Scripture consist in harmony as Divine Revelation.

See Dei Verbum by click here and scroll to number 10 vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

I am ignorant of the Divine Revelation cited for the presentation of the Church’s stance on male ordination.

3 Sources of the fullness of deposit of faith. I know I sound like a broken record.

Take one away and you do not have the fullness truth. The tendency is to fall into error whenever you take away one of the 3 sources.

 

[Bballer32]

Christ came to earth as man.
Priests need to be men in order to be in persona christi since Christ was a man.

And also, it was just the vocation that God gave us men to discern. The Church is the Bride of Christ so she needs to marry a man not a woman.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Well since when does personal instinct come part of theology.

And not much ill-informed but more like ignorant

It is one thing to admit one’s own ignorance, yet fully uncharitable to point out another’s …

The OP was respectful and requested guidance on the subject. We can likely do better simply by laying down the Truth as taught by the Church.

The OP is a stated Catholic living in Scotland, where over 40% of the population belong to the Church of Scotland and less than 20% are Catholic (and over 25% profess no faith). We are grateful to God that we have fellow Catholics there, and we need to support them.

To the OP:

I would add that most recently Blessed Pope John Paul II spoke most definitely on this topic in his Apostolic Letter, ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS, “On Reserving Priestly Ordination to Men” (with some controversial reception related to reasons you mentioned).

However, it is important to note that throughout his Papacy, he also spoke with great frequency on the dignity of women, most formally in his Apostolic Letter, MULIERIS DIGNITATEM, “On the Dignity and Vocation of Women”. His views on this subject were always centered by his extraordinary devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

These are two relevant writings on both topics - the exclusivity of the priesthood and the Church’s view of the dignity of women - and hopefully will aid in your understanding.

Blessings!

 

[Corki]

From ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS

"*4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.*" - John Paul II, 1994

Pretty definitive in my opinion…

In fact the whole document (it’s a short read), has numerous Scripture references.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Pretty definitive in my opinion…

From MULIERIS DIGNITATEM

Therefore the Church gives thanks for each and every woman: for mothers, for sisters, for wives; for women consecrated to God in virginity; for women dedicated to the many human beings who await the gratuitous love of another person; for women who watch over the human persons in the family, which is the fundamental sign of the human community; for women who work professionally, and who at times are burdened by a great social responsibility; for “perfect” women and for “weak” women - for all women as they have come forth from the heart of God in all the beauty and richness of their femininity; as they have been embraced by his eternal love; as, together with men, they are pilgrims on this earth, which is the temporal “homeland” of all people and is transformed sometimes into a “valley of tears”; as they assume, together with men, a common responsibility for the destiny of humanity according to daily necessities and according to that definitive destiny which the human family has in God himself, in the bosom of the ineffable Trinity.

Equally definitive on the dignity of women, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[SteveLy]

It would do better to allow married men in order to fulfill the need. Many diocese are turning away Diaconal candidates due to lack of room. I’m sure many of these men would have become Priests if allowed.

Even apart from the theological foundations as have been stated previously, just look at the business model as to the success of Christian ecclesiastical bodies which have allowed the ordination of women. It appears that it is the most sure way to cause destruction of the body. Most, if they have not already split due to heretical tendencies, are fighting off the assault of heretics who want to change God’s revelation to us.

Thirdly, the common secular point of God making us “all being equal” is absolutely true. It does not mean we are all the same. Different job descriptions does not make inequality.

Good for you for searching out answers.

 

[Corki]

Modern societies, quite rightly in my view, espouse equal rights and equal opportunities for women. It has long been the Church’s position, as I understand it, that we are all equal in the eyes of God.

Equal in dignity and equally cherished by God. But the teaching of the Church is not that men and women are equal - as in “the same”. Men and women are different and those differences enhance the Church in different ways. The Church would be much poorer, spritually, if she treated everyone the same, as if they were interchangeable parts.

 

[dsully]

It sounds like, more than anything, real men need to stand up and become priests. Any thoughts on why this isn’t happening?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

It would do better to allow married men in order to fulfill the need. Many diocese are turning away Diaconal candidates due to lack of room. I’m sure many of these men would have become Priests if allowed.

This is often discussed in Eastern Catholic circles in the U.S. where the married priesthood has been suppressed.

It is often postulated that the Catholic Church views both of these topics - eligibility of women and married men - as interrelated subjects, and a challenge to the long established norm of celibacy of the priesthood in the Latin Church. It is truly unfortunate, as they really are two distinct subjects. They are equated because the “objective” appears to be the same, yet there is clear historical and current precedent for married priesthood. It is truly unfortunate that they have been linked in a seemingly inseparable way.

Good for you for searching out answers.

 

[mangy_dog]

It sounds like, more than anything, real men need to stand up and become priests. Any thoughts on why this isn’t happening?

Vocations.

There aren’t enough vocations to the priesthood. There are vocations to super-stardom in sports and music as well as vocations to become lawyers, doctors and engineers.

But to the priesthood…hardly any if any.

Pray for vocations and pray for family vocations. So that our lives of prayer and lives of the spirit in a christian family setting-give way to these holy vocations.

Only God knows how many thousands upon thousands of aborted babies were vocations to the priesthood.

Lord have mercy on us…fore we are a great and sinful nation.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

It sounds like, more than anything, real men need to stand up and become priests. Any thoughts on why this isn’t happening?

With due respect, it is possible (and indeed is a fact of life) that some men are called to both vocations, fatherhood and priesthood. The norm of celibacy is a barrier to that dual calling, one that has been and continues to be embraced in Eastern Christianity, including in the Eastern Catholic Churches. Knowing many married priests (mostly in Orthodoxy) and having been raised in a parish with a married priest and family (a rarity for my generation), I would tell you that the vocation is a family vocation, and it is not an easy life. These priests and their wives normally hold secular jobs and serve their parish communities day in and day out. After witnessing their loving sacrifice on a daily basis, one might rightly argue that the “real men” are those that can and do handle the challenges of both vocations, especially in the modern world.

Nonetheless, we pray fervently for vocations!