The Origin of the Bible

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CW, are your betts, off a bit? You seem to have unwarranted authority in proclaiming popes, but you have no authority over your own mind. This is not about being right. It is about being awake. As long as you believe, you will slumber. The authority you bandy about is neither in the popes you randomly appoint, not int the pope you mock by your appointments. The authority you seek is in accuracy. Accuracy bears its own authority.

So why not read the church fathers? Why not read the translations of the scrolls from Egypt that tell, essentially, the Jesus story 5000 years ago? I am not attacking you, per se, I am simply encouraging you to do the work required to back up your emotional investment in your acquired belief system. If you don’t know your self, what good is the contents of your mind? You may be making claims for the origin of the Bible that are very suspect not only in scholarship, but almost certainly in interpretation. If you are going to be a Catholic, why not know where Catholicism actually stemmed from? You may be pleasantly surprised.
 
Detales said:
CW, are your betts, off a bit? You seem to have unwarranted authority in proclaiming popes, but you have no authority over your own mind. This is not about being right. It is about being awake. As long as you believe, you will slumber. The authority you bandy about is neither in the popes you randomly appoint, not int the pope you mock by your appointments. The authority you seek is in accuracy. Accuracy bears its own authority.

So why not read the church fathers? Why not read the translations of the scrolls from Egypt that tell, essentially, the Jesus story 5000 years ago? I am not attacking you, per se, I am simply encouraging you to do the work required to back up your emotional investment in your acquired belief system. If you don’t know your self, what good is the contents of your mind? You may be making claims for the origin of the Bible that are very suspect not only in scholarship, but almost certainly in interpretation. If you are going to be a Catholic, why not know where Catholicism actually stemmed from? You may be pleasantly surprised.
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When you attack the Church, which you are most certainly doing, you attack me. You have failed in your thinking in one respect: similarity does not imply causation.
 
You are right. I do not believe in causation. But I do see pedigree. and I am neither “attacking” the church nor you. I am advocating the sanity inherent in examining one’s belief systems beyond emotional fondness and internal verification.

You, like most everyone else on here who I’ve engaged on this topic, retreats to faith, habit, preference, or comfort. I am only advocating thought inclusive of factors devoid of their emotional index. That seems to be a far too difficult maneuver on the part of folks so heavily invested in being right. I thought, when I was a devout, well catechized, proselytizing Catholic, that I was right based on the authority of the church. Then, after a few disquieting discoveries, I had to see for myself. After forty years of that, I am quite satisfied that I made the right decision in deciding to look at the church from the outside.

It certainly has all the elements necessary for insight, but it makes it so unbelievably difficult by erecting roadblocks to perception that divert one’s attention to authority. In the end, that tactic fails. I know. Better to look now and see, than realize by force later. But it is a normal choice. As one woman, very wise, said: “Suffering or Science.” One way or another, we find out in the end.

Bon chance,
 
Hisalone said:
There is no issue so obvious as the cannon where Catholics have attempted to re write history. You falsely believe your Church cannot err. It has as will continue to err.
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Hisalone I tell you get behind me satan, if you truly believe that the Catholic Church can err, and you are most hoping it to err then you are saying that the Gates have prvailed over it.

So yes, get thee behind me satan.

Ufam Tobie
 
Ufam, the gates of hell shall not prevail against the one true Chruch. But here we are talking about Catholicism.
 
No, that is not an attack. It is reason for thought. “It is great luck for leaders that men don’t think.” Who said that? Adolph Hitler. He may have been an agent of the devil, but he was right, in this instance. Not only is the unexamined life not worth living, so is the unexamined faith. It is what I am for that is of importance here. You may be a fan of the Yankees and boo the Dodgers. Are you therefore against baseball? I’m talking baseball here, not teams.
 
Detales said:
No, that is not an attack. It is reason for thought. “It is great luck for leaders that men don’t think.” Who said that? Adolph Hitler. He may have been an agent of the devil, but he was right, in this instance. Not only is the unexamined life not worth living, so is the unexamined faith. It is what I am for that is of importance here. You may be a fan of the Yankees and boo the Dodgers. Are you therefore against baseball? I’m talking baseball here, not teams.
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You are here for no other purpose than to attack Catholicism. Period. I grow weary of your slights and slanders.
 
What I say would have to be false for it to be slander. I am only inviting you to think about origins of the Bible and faith beyond where you are comfortable. But I’ve had about enough as well. The alarm clock is rarely welcome. As for slights, once again I invite you to read statements by the early fathers as to the origins of the church. “Ipse dicit.”
 
To heck with the facts. Submit to what we say or be executed that is the legacy of the Catholic Church.
 
Hisalone said:
To heck with the facts. Submit to what we say or be executed that is the legacy of the Catholic Church.
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Further evidence that you have never studied history. If only the Catholic Church was guilty of this, then there would be no Catholic martyrs. To find out how wrong your statement is, you need look no further than Queen Elizabeth I of England.
 
CWBetts said:
Further evidence that you have never studied history. If only the Catholic Church was guilty of this, then there would be no Catholic martyrs. To find out how wrong your statement is, you need look no further than Queen Elizabeth I of England.
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Blood has been shed on both sides, Christ must be weeping.
Long before Elizabeth, Catholics shed much blood.
 
Hisalone said:
Blood has been shed on both sides, Christ must be weeping.
Long before Elizabeth, Catholics shed much blood.
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As did the Huguenots, and the Lutherans, and the Calvinists…I am not saying that what the Church did was excusable, but to turn a blind eye to your Protestant brethren is a grave injustice
 
CWBetts said:
As did the Huguenots, and the Lutherans, and the Calvinists…I am not saying that what the Church did was excusable, but to turn a blind eye to your Protestant brethren is a grave injustice
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I in no way condone the blood letting by the Protestant groups.
After hundreds yes hundreds of years of murder and torture in the name of Christ it is not suprising that there would be such a violent reaction when they were free from the bonds of abuse.
JFK once said that “If you discourage non violent revolution you encourage a violent one”
 
Detales said:
Ufam, the gates of hell shall not prevail against the one true Chruch. But here we are talking about Catholicism.
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Detales,

Yes, the Catholic Church is the only Church that the gates of hell can not prevail.

Ufam Tobie
 
OK. Rule the Catholic church out. I eagerly await any of these self-proclaimed whatevers to suggest another, equally effective and authoritative means of determining the true canon. Or the truth. Or anything else. We KNOW that you depise/hate/disdain/disbelieve/(other) the Catholic Church. Name your alternative or zip 'em.
 
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