The Orthodox and the Hail Mary

[Vico]

Bpbasil:
Why then do I often hear complaints that the Rosary is prayed as a “latinization” among Eastern Catholics and some Orthodox? Is this simply because they are using a “Latin” version of the Rosary?

The Eastern Catholic equivalent to The Rosary, a public group prayer, is the Akathistos Hymn. It is indulgenced as is the Rosary. So is the Office of the Paraclisis, another Eastern Catholic prayer.

This Hymn is in the 2006 Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy book (green book, p. 453):

Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos! Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you!
Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
For you gave birth to Christ the Savior and Redeemer of ouir souls.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The Malabar version is identical to the Latin.

The Malankara version is identical to the Syriac BUT the English translation currently in use is identical to the Latin.

All end in “Pray for us sinners, now and [some add, “at all times, and”] at the hour of our death. Amen.”

Here is another Malankara Syriac version translated into English:

Leader: Hail Mary, full of grace,

People: Our Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, our Lord, Jesus Christ. O Virgin Saint Mary, O Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at all times, and at the hour of our death. Amen.

 

[Vico]

…

Even in Latin Churches I have issues with the public recitation of the Rosary, why not pray Morning Prayer together, which, again, is part of the Liturgy of the Hours, which is the public prayer of the Church.

The Catholic Church (through the Apostolic Penitentiary of the Roman Curia) has promoted The Rosary, with meditation on the mysteries, by granting a plenary indulgence for group or church meditation, under the usual conditions. It takes about 15-20 minutes for 5 decades with associated prayers. From the prayers of the Eastern Churches the Catholic Church has promoted two group recitations, the Akathistos and Office of the Paraclisis, with plenary indulgence, under the usual conditions.

The Lauds (at dawn) takes about 35 minutes if singing it, and there is a plenary indulgence available for it (and Vespers), just for priests, during the Year for Priests.

---

See Manual of Indulgences, USCCB, Washington D.C., 2006 (based upon the fourth edition of Enchiridion indulgentiarum, 1999).

 

[bpbasilphx]

Has my question been answered? “Full of Grace” is how it reads in Greek?

The Greek word in both the Scripture and the Prayer (itself based on Scripture) is KEXAPHTOMENOI.

The root is CHARIS, which is the same word translated as “grace” elsewhere in the KJV.

“All graced up” would be the best English calch, or, more elegantly and idiomatically “full of grace,” from the Vetus version “gratia plena”.

 

[Diak]

The Eastern Catholic equivalent to The Rosary, a public group prayer, is the Akathistos Hymn. It is indulgenced as is the Rosary. So is the Office of the Paraclisis, another Eastern Catholic prayer.

It’s a bit risky to say anything in one particular tradition is “equivalent” to another and I would suggest any kind of direct correlation like this. There are several essential discrepencies with this analogy. The Rosary in the West was always a private devotion.
In the East, the Akathistos was actually a full form of the Kontakion ascribed most often to St. Romanos the Melodist. It was intended to be used in services for the Annunciation and other services to the Mother of God, but became so popular that its use extended outside of that original framework to be part of a more general salutory or supplicatory service to the Mother of God.

Unlike the Rosary the Akathistos is actually part of the corporate liturgical worship of the Church; it is prescribed for use at Matins on the fifth Saturday of Great Lent in all Churches of the Constantinopolitan (“Byzantine”) tradition, and in addition in Churches of Greek usage it is also taken n four parts or “stases” the first four Fridays of the Great Lent and coupled with Small Compline. So in contrast to the Rosary its use was intended from the beginning as part of public liturgical worship.

In addition to the Akathist there are many poetic Canons to the Mother of God, including the Supplicatory (that of Theophanes) used with a service called the Paraklis in the Greek usage and the Moleben in the Slavic usage, the “Thanksgiving Canon” of Joseph used along with the Akathist on Akathist Saturday (and the first four Fridays of Great Lent in the Greek usage), and even a Canon for every night of the week at Compline from the Octoechos.

In addition to its Lenten usage the Akathist has spread widely both in forms and usage to be a very common and much-loved public paraliturgical service, especially amongst the Slavic peoples (there are hundreds if not a thousand various Akathists written to date).

If looking at a private devotion to the Mother of God, perhaps something somewhat close to the Rosary is the “Rule of Pachomius”. This is also sometimes attributed to St. Seraphim as he gave this rule to his nuns of Diveyevo but was given by spiritual fathers even before St. Seraphim, such as St. Theodore of Sanaxar among others. saintjonah.org/services/stpachomius.htm

By the way, “Indulgenced” is not a term used in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[Vico]

…The Rosary in the West was always a private devotion.

Unlike the Rosary the Akathistos is actually part of the corporate liturgical worship of the Church; … So in contrast to the Rosary its use was intended from the beginning as part of public liturgical worship.
…

By the way, “Indulgenced” is not a term used in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

Thanks for elaborating on the Eastern prayers.

I understand that “indulgenced” is not used in the Orthodox Churches, yet indulgences are of the universal Church, and applicable to all sui iuris Catholic Churches, so indulgences have become a part of the Eastern Catholic Churches since Union of Brest (1595-1596), and before that for others such as Italo-Greek-Albanian, Maronites, and Chaldean Catholics (1552). The topic of indulgences may need a different expression for proper catechesis in Eastern Churches, but does not have any bearing on Latinization of the Liturgy.

The Rosary is certainly a private meditation, as well as a family meditation, and also community meditation in church, and has been promoted for group use in churches for hundred of years by the Church.

October 7, 1571, Saint Pius V established this date as the Feast of Our Lady of Victory to commemorate victory over the Ottomans, and then two years later, Pope Gregory XIII changed the title to Our Lady of the Rosary, and finally in 1740, Clement XII extended the feast to the universal Church.

 

[Diak]

so indulgences have become a part of the Eastern Catholic Churches since Union of Brest (1595-1596), and before that for others such as Italo-Greek-Albanian, Maronites, and Chaldean Catholics (1552). The topic of indulgences may need a different expression for proper catechesis in Eastern Churches, but does not have any bearing on Latinization of the Liturgy.

Indulgences are not mentioned explicitly or implicitly in the articles of the Union of Brest. They need no expression for “proper catechesis” in our particular tradition (UGCC) because they are a practice of the Latin Church. Any use of “indulgences” would most certainly be a direct latinization in our Church as they most certainly did not exist before the Union. This is actually one of the arguments that the schismatic Society of St. Josaphat uses to distinguish itself from the canonical UGCC (namely the UGCC has dropped them as a latinization while the SSJ has retained them).

 

[Diak]

The Rosary is certainly a private meditation, as well as a family meditation, and also community meditation in church, and has been promoted for group use in churches for hundred of years by the Church.

While I don’t necessarily debate any of this, the Akathistos is not “equivalent” to the Rosary. The Akathistos was always intended to be used liturgically, was the first known fully developed liturgical hymn to the Mother of God, and predated the Rosary via St. Dominic by about 700 years. The Rosary, while it can be used communally, remains a private devotion. The Akathistos is actually part of the Divine Praises (Divine Office) in the Constantinopolitan tradition from whence it has become even more frequently used as a liturgical service outside of its original place (Matins and Compline).

 

[Vico]

Indulgences are not mentioned explicitly or implicitly in the articles of the Union of Brest. They need no expression for “proper catechesis” in our particular tradition (UGCC) because they are a practice of the Latin Church. Any use of “indulgences” would most certainly be a direct latinization in our Church as they most certainly did not exist before the Union. This is actually one of the arguments that the schismatic Society of St. Josaphat uses to distinguish itself from the canonical UGCC (namely the UGCC has dropped them as a latinization while the SSJ has retained them).

The Catholic Church has a universal component and a particular Church component. The universal component is the Roman Curia headed by the Roman Pontiff and has representation from all the particular Churches. As examples, the Apostolic Penitentiary, the Doctrine of Faith, and Congregation of Oriental Churches are all part of the Catholic Church, not the Latin Church.

Each particular Church receives the universal aspects of the Catholic Church by being a particular Church, and that is why indulgences are part of each particular Church, not just the Latin Church.

The universal aspects were gained by several particular churches as a result of the Union of Brest. One can avail oneself to them in any particular Church, and for that reason I state that a particular catechesis is useful. It would not be Latinization if it was an expression of the particular Church in its own terms for what is available as a member of the Catholic Church. However there are two de fide dogmas that must be accepted by all particular Churches (summarized in the Ludwig Ott book):

The Church possesses the power to grant Indulgences.
The use of Indulgences is useful and salutary to the Faithful.

 

[Vico]

While I don’t necessarily debate any of this, the Akathistos is not “equivalent” to the Rosary. The Akathistos was always intended to be used liturgically, was the first known fully developed liturgical hymn to the Mother of God, and predated the Rosary via St. Dominic by about 700 years. The Rosary, while it can be used communally, remains a private devotion. …

The Rosary is “equivalent” to the Akathistos or Paraclisis when it comes to indulgences, and that was my original thought. The Rosary, is specifically promoted by the Church, for hundreds of years, to be used in churches and families, so it has been intended during this time to be more than a private devotion.

 

[Aramis]

Father Deacon:

The listing of various EC devotionals and paraliturgicals in the list of indulgences does encourage Romans to participate in them, and at least acknowledges the “Catholicity” of the EC Churches.

 

[Diak]

The Rosary is “equivalent” to the Akathistos or Paraclisis when it comes to indulgences, and that was my original thought.

Your original thought, as I mentioned, was not correct in that indulgences are not a part of Easten Catholic spirituality or liturgical practice. Indulgences, while they may be a well-established local practice in the Latin Church (they are rarely preached or mentioned even in the Latin Church anymore), are not binding in application to the Eastern Catholic Churches as they are not authentically nor organically Eastern Catholic liturgical or spiritual practices (c.f. Orientale Lumen, Orientalium Ecclesiarum among many other Magisterial examples which we can go into).

Article I of the Union of Brest clearly states

but that we should remain with that which was handed down to us in the Holy Scriptures, in the Gospel, and in the writings of the holy Greek Doctors…

If you can cite a Magisterial provision that specifically and directly applies indulgences to the Eastern Catholic Churches that would be more helpful than generalities or oblique references to Ott’s book.

 

[Diak]

Aramis’ point is taken, especially in regard to the applicability being focused on a Latin.

The Catholic Church has a universal component and a particular Church component. The universal component is the Roman Curia headed by the Roman Pontiff and has representation from all the particular Churches. As examples, the Apostolic Penitentiary, the Doctrine of Faith, and Congregation of Oriental Churches are all part of the Catholic Church, not the Latin Church.

Each particular Church receives the universal aspects of the Catholic Church by being a particular Church, and that is why indulgences are part of each particular Church, not just the Latin Church.

The universal aspects were gained by several particular churches as a result of the Union of Brest. One can avail oneself to them in any particular Church, and for that reason I state that a particular catechesis is useful. It would not be Latinization if it was an expression of the particular Church in its own terms for what is available as a member of the Catholic Church. However there are two de fide dogmas that must be accepted by all particular Churches (summarized in the Ludwig Ott book):

The Church possesses the power to grant Indulgences.
The use of Indulgences is useful and salutary to the Faithful

I hope the above poster is not presuming to detail what is necessary for a member of another particular Catholic Church to be Catholic. I will certainly not presume to lecture Latins what they should and shouldn’t do with indulgences. In terms of fidelity to the Union, our holocaust of millions of martyrs of the last century is certainly witness to this fidelity.

Indulgences are simply not traditional either spiritually or liturgically in my particular tradition (Kyivan), are not mentioned as necessary in our covenant of communion with Rome (Union of Brest) and thus an attempt to apply an oblique reference to Ott is less than convincing. Thus any mandating any of them would be a latinization, an accretion not of the organic and authentic spiritual and liturgical tradition of my particular Church. Article I of the Union of Brest states “we ask that we should not be compelled to any other creed but that we should remain with that which was handed down to us in the Holy Scriptures, in the Gospel, and in the writings of the holy Greek Doctors…”.

What is rather more convincing are the words of the Magisterium in this regard, first from Pope John Paul II of blessed memory in Orientale Lumen:

The Christian tradition of the East implies a way of accepting, understanding and living faith in the Lord Jesus. In this sense it is extremely close to the Christian tradition of the West, which is born of and nourished by the same faith. Yet it is legitimately and admirably distinguished from the latter, since Eastern Christians have their own way of perceiving and understanding, and thus an original way of living their relationship with the Savior.

In entering into catholic communion, they did not at all intend to deny their fidelity to their own tradition, to which they have borne witness down the centuries with heroism and often by shedding their blood.

It has been stressed several times that the full union of the Catholic Eastern Churches with the Church of Rome which has already been achieved must not imply a diminished awareness of their own authenticity and originality.(58) Wherever this occurred, the Second Vatican Council has urged them to rediscover their full identity, because they have “the right and the duty to govern themselves according to their own special disciplines. For these are guaranteed by ancient tradition, **and seem to be better suited to the customs of their faithful and to the good of their souls.” **

While an indulgenced prayer may be very beneficial to the Latin Catholic, it is simply not a part of our spiritual tradition in the Kyivan Church. And to get to the essential point, the Akathistos, the first liturgical prayer to the Mother of God, is most certainly not “equivalent”, in content, intent, liturgical place, or even spiritually, to the Rosary.

 

[Vico]

Aramis’ point is taken, especially in regard to the applicability being focused on a Latin.
I hope the above poster is not presuming to detail what is necessary for a member of another particular Catholic Church to be Catholic. …
Indulgences are simply not traditional either spiritually or liturgically in my particular tradition (Kyivan), are not mentioned as necessary in our covenant of communion with Rome (Union of Brest) and thus an attempt to apply an oblique reference to Ott is less than convincing. Thus any mandating any of them would be a latinization, an accretion not of the organic and authentic spiritual and liturgical tradition of my particular Church…

While an indulgenced prayer may be very beneficial to the Latin Catholic, it is simply not a part of our spiritual tradition in the Kyivan Church. And to get to the essential point, the Akathistos, the first liturgical prayer to the Mother of God, is most certainly not “equivalent”, in content, intent, liturgical place, or even spiritually, to the Rosary.

No, I do not tell you what to do or to believe. I do present what is taught by the Catholic Church when I see that it is not understood. There are clearly some misunderstandings on this issue of indulgences. In the Manual of Indulgences (2006, USCCB, Washington DC) is written:

“This edition of the Enchiridion makes frequent reference to episcopal assemblies (those of the Eastern Churches according to their respective juridical norms, those of the Latin rite according to canon 447 CIC, to prepare lists of prayers more commonly used in their respective territories). And in fact there has been a notable increase in the number of prayers included in the Enchiridion, especially those from the Eastern traditions.”

– p 6. Cardinal William Wakefield Baum, Major Penitentiary + Luigi De Magistris Titular Bishop of Nova Regent.

“… prayers from various Eastern traditions have spread also among the faithful of the Latin rite, especially in recent years, and are employed with considerable spiritual benefit in both private and public piety.” …
“Among the faithful of the Eastern Churches, where the practice of these devotions does not exist, other similar exercises in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary, as established by the patriarchs, enjoy the same indulgences.”

From the main text, with approval of Apostolic Penitentiary – pp. 82-83

Norm 7, p 14, grants power to Eparchial and diocesan bishops to grant partial and plenary indulgences according the the rules given there.
Norm 8, p 15, similarly for Metropolitans.
Norm 9, p 15, similarly for Patriarchs and Major archbishops.
Norm 10, p 15, similarly for Cardinals (with more limits).

I know that indulgence was granted for the faithful Byzantine Catholics visiting a Byzantine monastary during the Jubilee year 2000, by a Byzantine Catholic bishop.

The Indulgentarium Doctrina of His Holiness Pope Paul VI (1967) is included in the same book, and more convincing than my obscure reference to Ludwig Ott, on the efficacy and universality of indulgences. Alternatively, on can check Denzinger-Schonmetzer, Enchiridion symbolorum 989,998.

You said: “…it is simply not a part of our spiritual tradition in the Kyivan Church.” To which I reply, that is what I would expect, if tradition excludes any time before union with Rome. Now you know you can take advantage of indulgences as an Eastern Catholic, even though it is not traditional and is not required.

 

[Ghosty]

You said: “…it is simply not a part of our spiritual tradition in the Kyivan Church.” To which I reply, that is what I would expect, if tradition excludes any time before union with Rome. Now you know you can take advantage of indulgences as an Eastern Catholic, even though it is not traditional and is not required.

What you have to understand is that this is a bit like saying that now we can take advantage of lay ministers of the Eucharist, use unleavened bread, and delay Communion for infants until “the age of reason”.

These things are not part of Eastern Catholic practice, and don’t really have a place. The fact that Rome has issued norms for them doesn’t make them “fit in” to the traditions, and neither does the fact that a Byzantine Catholic Bishop issued some indulgence or another (the Byzantine Catholic Church really can’t be used as an example of traditional Eastern Catholic practice in many cases, anyway).

Peace and God bless!

 

[Vico]

What you have to understand is that this is a bit like saying that now we can take advantage of lay ministers of the Eucharist, use unleavened bread, and delay Communion for infants until “the age of reason”.

These things are not part of Eastern Catholic practice, and don’t really have a place. The fact that Rome has issued norms for them doesn’t make them “fit in” to the traditions, and neither does the fact that a Byzantine Catholic Bishop issued some indulgence or another (the Byzantine Catholic Church really can’t be used as an example of traditional Eastern Catholic practice in many cases, anyway).

Peace and God bless!

I never thought that presenting these Eastern prayers as being like the Rosary, because of both being public and indulgenced, would elicit such as response as I have received. Especially since I am in a Byzantine Catholic parish.

It is best not to assume. I am not saying “that now we can take advantage of lay ministers of the Eucharist, use unleavened bread, and delay Communion for infants until “the age of reason”” or anything similar.

I fully embrace Orientalium Ecclesiarum:
"2. The Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same faith, the same sacraments and the same government and who, combining together into various groups which are held together by a hierarchy, form separate Churches or Rites. Between these there exists an admirable bond of union, such that the variety within the Church in no way harms its unity; rather it manifests it, for it is the mind of the Catholic Church that each individual Church or Rite should retain its traditions whole and entire and likewise that it should adapt its way of life to the different needs of time and place.(2) "

What is universal to the Catholic Church is: same faith, the same sacraments and the same government. Indulgences are closely related to the mystery of penance, and are are of the dogmatic constitution of universal Church, i.e. to all particular Churches. They are not Liturgical Latinization, nor do they require any modification to any tradition, because prayer for those fallen asleep in Christ is common to all particular Churches, and the Church has the power to grant these prayers. In fact I am promoting the Akathistos and Paraclesis for members of Latin and Eastern Churches, simply in conjunction with the conditions for indulgence (which are private).

 

[malphono]

I never thought that presenting these Eastern prayers as being like the Rosary, because of both being public and indulgenced, would elicit such as response as I have received. Especially since I am in a Byzantine Catholic parish.

This has been said before, but the rosary is a private devotion, irrespective of when or where it is prayed, or if it is prayed alone or in a group. It is not, and never has been, a part of the public liturgical prayer of even the Roman Church.

It is best not to assume. I am not saying “that now we can take advantage of lay ministers of the Eucharist, use unleavened bread, and delay Communion for infants until “the age of reason”” or anything similar.

IMO, Ghosty is correct in making the analogy.

I fully embrace Orientalium Ecclesiarum:
"2. The Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same faith, the same sacraments and the same government and who, combining together into various groups which are held together by a hierarchy, form separate Churches or Rites. Between these there exists an admirable bond of union, such that the variety within the Church in no way harms its unity; rather it manifests it, for it is the mind of the Catholic Church that each individual Church or Rite should retain its traditions whole and entire and likewise that it should adapt its way of life to the different needs of time and place.(2) "

What is universal to the Catholic Church is: same faith, the same sacraments and the same government. Indulgences are closely related to the mystery of penance, and are are of the dogmatic constitution of universal Church, i.e. to all particular Churches. They are not Liturgical Latinization, nor do they require any modification to any tradition, because prayer for those fallen asleep in Christ is common to all particular Churches, and the Church has the power to grant these prayers. In fact I am promoting the Akathistos and Paraclesis for members of Latin and Eastern Churches, simply in conjunction with the conditions for indulgence (which are private).

There is nothing wrong with an indulgence in and of itself. But at the same time, the very concept is alien to the East and Orient. As such, when imposed on the East and Orient, they are indeed latinizations.

Yes, prayer for those fallen asleep in Christ is common to all traditions, but the idea of indulgences in that regard strikes me as being suspiciously linked to the Latin concept of purgatory. That issue has been dealt with ad nauseam in this forum, and I am not about to go there now.

So much for my :twocents:

 

[Vico]

This has been said before, but the rosary is a private devotion, irrespective of when or where it is prayed, or if it is prayed alone or in a group. It is not, and never has been, a part of the public liturgical prayer of even the Roman Church.
…

I agree, and never asserted that the Rosary was part of the public liturgical prayer of even the Roman Church. So why is that significant, since I was relating the prayers, Akathistos/Paraclesis and Rosary, through the fact that they are indulgenced?

 

[SyroMalankara]

I don’t think the Assyrians and the Oriental Churches ever issued them, but many of the Byzantine Churches did issue “absolution certificates” [aka Indulgences] at some time in their history…

 

[Vico]

I don’t think the Assyrians and the Oriental Churches ever issued them, but many of the Byzantine Churches did issue “absolution certificates” [aka Indulgences] at some time in their history…

Yes, I read about those, and they are not indulgences. An indulgence does not absolve one from sins.