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In the mid 90s the Katolikos (chief patriarch of that community) met with Pope St John Paul II and signed a joint statement declaring that Mary is the Mother of God.
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Elvis_George
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The Pope had also recognized the term “Mother of Christ” as valid
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Elvis_George
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in general though, the Pro Latin faction is pretty trapped too, because while they had the upper hand during the 1960s under Mar Joseph Parecattil and Mar Augustin Kandathil, Rome no longer supports latinization. They even appealed to Rome, just to get rejected. The current practice of 100% ad populum is a practice not approved by the Holy Synod and was put forward by Mar Joseph Parecattil. Mar Joseph Powathil, was fire. He saved the Church and steered it from a more latin to a more syriac church. The past 2 Major Archbishops, like Mar Varkey Vithaithil and Mar George Alenchery were both great supporters for the delatinization of the church.In that case I feel like the whole land/scam case from 2 years ago might be something cooked up by the pro-Latin factions within the Archeparchy of Ernakulam-Angamaly to trap him?so that they can get another archbishop in.
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Alexandria2020
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wow awesome!
Mar Varkey even had parish priests of Ernakulam-Angamaly archeparchy against him. pretty sad.
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Elvis_George
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At least imo, the ekm-angamaly archparchy is rlly latinized because of the Latin Catholics in Vypin,Cochin, and Cherthala.The eparchy of Kothamangalam, despite being under ekm-angamaly, uses the half and half method because of the neighboring Jacobite influence (Kothamangalam is HOTSPOT of Jacobites, and so is Muvattupuzha…once you get to Mylacombu and Thodupuzha things begin to change and it’s more of a Catholic majority.) The Eparchy of Irnjalakuda-Kodungalloor (my eparchy) does 100% ad populum because of it’s proximity of to Angamaly. I’ll give you an example:
The boundaries of ekm-angmaly are: The Chalakudy river, the Muvattupuzha river, Cochin, Vypin, Cherthala, and Vaikom. That’s a rlly, big piece of land and that covers 4 districts, Ernakulam, Thrissur, Alapuzha, and Kottayam. I’m from Chalakudy. I’m just a couple kilometers above the Chalakudy river, so I’m still part of the Eparchy of Irnjalakuda. Go a couple of meters south, and your still in Thrissur district but ur in another eparchy. So, my parish church, which is St Mary’s forane church, Chalakudy, which is a pretty ancient Church, is part of the eparchy of Irnjalakuda. Go down south, like maybe 10 minutes, and you’ll get to the famous church of Koratty (St Mary’s forane church Koratty.) It’s still in Thrissur district but the eparchy just changed to ekm-angamaly.
Now let’s go to Eparchy of Palai. I think this is what your eparchy is in India. Palai follows the half and half format for 2 reasons:
The Eparchy is under Changanassery, and 2, the eparchy (at least in the most northern areas of the eparchy) are heavily populated by the Jacobites. The Eparchy of Palai doesn’t have as exact boundaries but to the North it is the Muvattupuzha river, which covers Ernakulam district. Areas like Piravom, Mulakulam, and Koothattukulam are included in this area, which is VERY Jacobite area. (During the verdict of 2017, this area got hit the hardest and today almost all Jacobites got forced to worship in chapels or in forests because of it.) The Eparchy of Palai covers 3 districts, which are Ernakulam, Kottayam, and Idukki.
Thrissur, at least from what I have seen, is influenced by Angamaly/Irnjalakuda but then again there are plenty of churches in Kunnamkulam that use the half and half formula.That’s probably because the area has alot of Orthodox people. And Changanassery and Kanjarapally are surrounded by Jacobites, Mar Thomites, Syro Malankarese, and predominantly Orthodox so they either use half and half or more commonly, 100% ad orientam.
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Alexandria2020
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How’s the situation in the Malabar area then? Thalasherry, Manandhavady, and Thamarashery. I’ve heard Thalasherry Archeparchy is a bit more traditonal. But overall the whole Archeparchy and the suffrage eparchies are latinized based on the pictures of the churches I’ve seen.
Palai eparchy … I noticed is in an isolated area. More so than many of the other eparchies. What I mean is many villages have just SyroMalabar churches and the Kottayam Knanya Syro churches. You have to go up north to Piravom to reach Jacobite churches and down south below Ettumanoor to reach other denominations ( but then that would be Changanasherry archeparchy area).
Palai eparchy … I noticed is in an isolated area. More so than many of the other eparchies. What I mean is many villages have just SyroMalabar churches and the Kottayam Knanya Syro churches. You have to go up north to Piravom to reach Jacobite churches and down south below Ettumanoor to reach other denominations ( but then that would be Changanasherry archeparchy area).
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Elvis_George
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generally, they use the half and half formula…there are exceptions tho…
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Elvis_George
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No that’s not true come to the Eparchy of Irnjalakuda…southern Thrissur’s christian population is litterally 100% Syro Malabar…The Latin population appears only in small numbers in Kodungallur, Mala, and Azhikode…this in unlike Palai where it is mostly Jacobite in Koothattukulam and Piravom…but I do agree that below the river it’s mostly Syro Malabar…and ettumannor and below is still mostly Catholic…once you get to Kottayam, Manarcad, Kallumkathara, and Puthpally, that’s when the Jacobites/Orthodox become predominant
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Alexandria2020
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Based on historical documents I’ve read I think Thrissur and Kottayam/Palai/Changanasherry sides were the prominent Syro areas. Even tho they erected Ernakulam vicarite at the end of the 19th century, initially the area had barely any Syro-Malabarians. Ernakulam side was dominated by the Latins. It was only later that Syros came into Ernakulam (probably the ones from Thrissur&Kottayam side).
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Elvis_George
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Nope, not true go to areas like Ernakulam, Angamaly, Edapally,Manjapra, Vaikom, Pallipuram (Cherthala), Muttum and such and you’ll find a lot of Syro Malabar Catholics. The Vicarites still compromised Ernakulam. The Northern half belonged to Thrissur and the Southern half belonged to Changannessery. Later, a 3rd one was erected,which was Ernakulam
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Alexandria2020
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I didn’t mean now. I mean late 19th century and early 20th century. And more so proper Ernakualm than the suburbs.
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Elvis_George
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even in that case it’s still not factual because the Syro Malabar church has some of the most ancient churches in the area. All of these churches were never latin…I’ll give you a shortlist:
St Thomas forane N. Paravur founded by St Thomas)
St Mary’s forane Koratty
St Mary’s church Njarackal (one of the few churches in Vypin that remained faithful to the East Syriac tradition)
St Mary’s church Palluthuruthy (one of the few churches in Cochin that remained faithful to the East Syriac tradition)
St Thomas Church Malayatoor (St Thomas prayed in this church)
St George forane Angamaly
St Hormis Angamaly (Mar Abraham’s aramana)
St Mary’s forane church Cherthala (contains a cross made by St Thomas)
St Mary’s forane Kanjoor (St Sebastian statue came much later than it’s founding)
St Thomas church Kokkamangalam (founded by St Thomas)
St Mary’s church Kudavechoor
St Joseph’s forane church Vaikom
St Mary’s forane Thripunithura (formed after the catholic members of the nearby Jacobite church decided to build a new church)
St Gevarsis and Prothasias church Akaparambu (formed after the catholic members of the nearby Jacobite church decided to build a new church)
St Gevarsis and Prothasias church Uddayamperor (The synod of Diamper happened in this church)
and many,many more
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Margaret_Ann
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What is an “aramana”?
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Alexandria2020
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A good English equivalent word would be “rectory”
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Elvis_George
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Bishop’s house
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Margaret_Ann
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Oh, so it’s a chancery.
@Alexandria2020
@Alexandria2020
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Alexandria2020
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At Mar Abraham of Angamaly’s time technically we were under Chaldean Catholic jurisdiction then. But it was short-lived. As the Latin Rite Portuguese archbishop took over our area/diocese soon after Mar Abraham’s time.
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Elvis_George
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they actually suppressed it in the Synod of Diamper
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Elvis_George
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The Archdeacon George of the Cross led the church during this time of turmoil…the Archbishop of Goa Archbishop Menesis, however, led an uprising against Archdeacon George which constituted his cousin and some Nasranis… Archdeacon George stepped down to Bishop Francis Roz…who was latin…it was under him the synod of diamper occurred…
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Alexandria2020
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I was recently told Francis Roz restored some mistakes of the Diamper synod some years afterwards (maybe 1 or 2 years later). through another synod. I think he restored Puqdankon (known as “Anna Pesaha…” from the 86 missal onwards).
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