The Other Guys

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Matthew 10:2-4: “The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon called Peter, and his brother Andrew; James, the son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James, the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddeus; Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot who betrayed him.”
So if I’m counting right, and with my math skills that’s a BIG “if”, Peter, James, Matthew & John are the only ones of Jesus’ 12 apostles who wrote canonical Scripture. What about the other guys? the eight other apostles (well 7 plus Matthias), what did they teach and do after Jesus’ ascension? If only 1/3 of the apostles wrote anything worth being in the Bible how can anyone assert that the Bible contains the whole of Christian truth and authority?🤷

Just something I’ve been thinking about 😃
 
Well maybe they weren’t the writing sort 😃

But its an intersting question I will be following it.
 
How many of them would’ve known how to write? And once they went into full-power evangelization mode, who would’ve had the time to learn?
 
It is an interesting thing to think about. We know Jesus conferred on them the ability to bind and loose and to forgive and retain sins and they were the first Bishops of Christ’s early Church and had “their share in the ministry” Christ also told his apostles in Matthew 19:28: “Amen, I say to you that you who have followed me, in the new age, when the Son of Man is seated on his throne of glory, will yourselves sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
 
So if I’m counting right, and with my math skills that’s a BIG “if”, Peter, James, Matthew & John are the only ones of Jesus’ 12 apostles who wrote canonical Scripture. What about the other guys? the eight other apostles (well 7 plus Matthias), what did they teach and do after Jesus’ ascension? If only 1/3 of the apostles wrote anything worth being in the Bible how can anyone assert that the Bible contains the whole of Christian truth and authority?🤷

Just something I’ve been thinking about 😃
Well the Bible itself states in the Gospel of John (21:25):

25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Evidently not everything is in the Bible. Apostolic Traditions and the Church all taught orally before the Bible was even complete.
 
Well the Bible itself states in the Gospel of John (21:25):

25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Evidently not everything is in the Bible. Apostolic Traditions and the Church all taught orally before the Bible was even complete.
Yea I totally agree I’m just surprised so many others do not.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
Well the Bible itself states in the Gospel of John (21:25):
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
Evidently not everything is in the Bible. Apostolic Traditions and the Church all taught orally before the Bible was even complete.
Yea I totally agree I’m just surprised so many others do not.
Because it goes against their novelties and Bible-Alone arguments. A friend who is Protestant once told me,God wanted the Bible-Alone as the norm for faith and morals.Really? So I asked him:

Tell me what Bible Abraham used,if the Bible-Alone is the norm for faith and morals?

He was speechless…🤷
 
Because it goes against their novelties and Bible-Alone arguments. A friend who is Protestant once told me,God wanted the Bible-Alone as the norm for faith and morals.Really? So I asked him:

Tell me what Bible Abraham used,if the Bible-Alone is the norm for faith and morals?

He was speechless…🤷
Most sola scripturaists I’ve come across don’t really like going by “the Bible alone”. It’s more like “proof texting alone” which I guess is why they justify their Bibles having fewer books and added words.
 
Not all the apostles wrote scriptures …but all evangelized, became Bishops, etc and all with the exception of John ( who took care of the Blessed Mother after Jesus death until her Assumption ) were martyred. You might want to read Benedict XVI’s book entitled The Apostles…a very slim book that gives an account for each one of these wonderful twelve plus Paul as well as interesting information about the Church in its earliest days following the Ascension of Christ and the out-pouring of His Spirit!
 
My opinion is that all the apostles were “educated”, in some form or other. If a fisherman, like Peter, could write as well as he did, we stand in wonder at what he, John and Matthew produced, not even to speak of the Letters (James, Paul, etc.).

Please consider that Mark and Luke perhaps used the stories from some of the apostles in their Gospels. Those apostles had hope of others hearing their stories.

Please consider that most of the apostles took Jesus’ words to heart, and went forth to evangelize, baptize, confirm and teach (orally). They may not have had time to sit and write (as John did, in exile, or Paul did, in prison). They were busy…remember most of them believed in the imminent return of Jesus in the Final Judgement, and they were worried about present work to do, not to writing for future generations.

It would be good to get a study bible, like the Catholic Study Bible (NAB) and read the background of the writers recorded in the New Testament. Then we might understand the demands on those who chose to work for the Lord, rather than to write.

Peace.
 
So if I’m counting right, and with my math skills that’s a BIG “if”, Peter, James, Matthew & John are the only ones of Jesus’ 12 apostles who wrote canonical Scripture. What about the other guys? the eight other apostles (well 7 plus Matthias), what did they teach and do after Jesus’ ascension? If only 1/3 of the apostles wrote anything worth being in the Bible how can anyone assert that the Bible contains the whole of Christian truth and authority?🤷

Just something I’ve been thinking about 😃
. . . and what of the female apostles? and i do believe Philip also wrote, but “Those Other Guyz” were the ones who determined whose writings would be incorporated into the “final” version. (and who were they to say, anyway!!)

believe when i say i’ve been thinking 'bout that for a very long time!!
 
My opinion is that all the apostles were “educated”, in some form or other. If a fisherman, like Peter, could write as well as he did, we stand in wonder at what he, John and Matthew produced, not even to speak of the Letters (James, Paul, etc.).

Please consider that Mark and Luke perhaps used the stories from some of the apostles in their Gospels. Those apostles had hope of others hearing their stories.

Please consider that most of the apostles took Jesus’ words to heart, and went forth to evangelize, baptize, confirm and teach (orally). They may not have had time to sit and write (as John did, in exile, or Paul did, in prison). They were busy…remember most of them believed in the imminent return of Jesus in the Final Judgement, and they were worried about present work to do, not to writing for future generations.

It would be good to get a study bible, like the Catholic Study Bible (NAB) and read the background of the writers recorded in the New Testament. Then we might understand the demands on those who chose to work for the Lord, rather than to write.

Peace.
Thanks for the great (name removed by moderator)ut! My question on this is just how can so many adamantly reject apostolic authority and Tradition when 2/3 of the 12 didn’t write or at least write inspired. Also I agree most of the disciples were very busy evangelizing and baptizing.
 
Matthew 10:2-4: “The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon called Peter, and his brother Andrew; James, the son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James, the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddeus; Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot who betrayed him.”
So if I’m counting right, and with my math skills that’s a BIG “if”, Peter, James, Matthew & John are the only ones of Jesus’ 12 apostles who wrote canonical Scripture. What about the other guys? the eight other apostles (well 7 plus Matthias), what did they teach and do after Jesus’ ascension? If only 1/3 of the apostles wrote anything worth being in the Bible how can anyone assert that the Bible contains the whole of Christian truth and authority?🤷

Just something I’ve been thinking about 😃
Luke6:13 And when it was day, he called [unto him] his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,15 Matthew and Thomas, James the [son] of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,16 And Judas [the brother] of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.

My understanding is that judas (brother of James) /(Thaddeus?)wrote Jude
See Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:
 
Tradition has it that Thomas, who doubted the Lord’s ressurection and demanded to touch the nail marks, was selected to “make disciples of all nations” as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19.

He went east to India where he is known to have penetrated the western part of the country. He was martyred there, but not before converting large numbers of people. To this day, there is a very strong devotion to St. Thomas in India.

There is a book called the “Acts of Thomas” but scholars generally agree that it was written too late to have been written by the apostle himself.

When 16th century European priests arrived in southern India to introduce Christianity, they were told that a more famed Christian missionary had been there first. In the districts of Travancore and Cochin, there was already a community of Indian Christians with a tradition of loose communion with the Roman Catholic Church. The man who first converted them, the Indians said, was none other than St. Thomas the Apostle (the “Doubting Thomas”), who reputedly arrived in India aboard a Roman trading vessel in 52 A.D.

Not the most Christian frieidly source but an interesting enough read for what it is worth. Read more: time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,817710,00.html#ixzz1LOCDkfbz

-Tim-
 
It just occured to me that Paul referrs to himself as “An Apostle of Christ” many times. Maybe he is not one of the original 12 apostles but since he is widely recognized as an apostle in his own right, then this goes at least a little way toward proving Apostolic succesion.

-Tim-
 
I wonder why any of the priest who had studied theology did not reply to this question. Or there aren’t any?

Of course many of the Apostles had written their own account about the Life and death of Jesus, which has many contradictions and mis leadings about the faith, and such writings had no authenticity, whether that particular apostle wrote the book, or some other person used his name to write. Having referred all the writings side by side, only the writings of the four had something good and solid and coincides the narration of the life and death of Jesus, which was finally agreed and approved by all during the early centuries of Christianity.

The above statement, is as per my understanding. If someone finds that I am deviating from the facts, I regret for the same. Please correct me.
 
My opinion is that all the apostles were “educated”, in some form or other. If a fisherman, like Peter, could write as well as he did, we stand in wonder at what he, John and Matthew produced, not even to speak of the Letters (James, Paul, etc.).

Please consider that Mark and Luke perhaps used the stories from some of the apostles in their Gospels. Those apostles had hope of others hearing their stories.
There is no evidence that any apostle took a pen to paper at all- they operated in oral tradition. In those days the paper they used didn’t have the shelf life modern paper has so the never ending battle with mother nature recommissioning scribes, risking something each time a copy was made, became one hurdle. The combination of recording 12 separate eye witness accounts speaking hebrew/ aramaic recorded by the hand of unknown parties translated by unknown parties into greek, further repeated by scribes and translating to latin… there’s a whole lot of potential for trouble at every step in the process. IMO the solo scriptura stance is more a firm statement of honoring the monumental endeavor (all the kings horses, all the kings men pulling together in allegiance to the truth) than it is about enforcing rigid standards of literalism. Once that Bible is written, printed, and made available, someone using it disrespectfully is all on the recipient abusing that gift to humanity.

I think of Peter the rock sort of like a cop having to manage 12 eye witness testimonies trying to make earthly sense of something that completely blew all their socks off. Each of which puts their own spin from a different angle. Each of them had their own personalities in the way as well. Who was the most committed to telling the whole truth nothing but the truth? I don’t think it’ wise to rank them as if competitors but I do judge them based on a few criteria that may seem a bit odd. Being a woman I tend to be a student of men’s feet :p. That said:
Who was the hot head among them trying to run with the ball before they had a clue?
Who had to be corrected again and again and again?
Who received the most rebuke (Jesus was very firm telling them to sit down at times)? Were the seemingly silent apostles not paying attention, did the lesson go over their heads, or were they too star struck/ humble?
In an era when might made right, did the alpha personalities run roughshod over the best students?
How much of their speech was tailored to suit an audience to make their point? By this I mean we can use modern day preaching as an example where things go wrong. In American history southern baptists might have been the champions of black emancipation if only they didn’t tailor their message to suit plantation owners.

Which brings me to this… en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas It is believed that Thomas was evangelizing to a Syrian audience, if these writings are genuinely belonging to Thomas, which is seriously in doubt. Original poster Tim- I sincerely hope you’re doing your homework about this.

The below example of the work truly sounds like gibberish, mingling in occult philosophies, so I can see why it would be rejected even if the reasoning behind that rejection was limited to negative characterizations without a full body explanation for the rejection. “One of the three wicked disciples of Manes” has no meaning to people in 2011. Who in main stream society knows what makes a Mane wicked? Who knows evil when they see it if many have spent their lives trying to be good and simply don’t think that way (like a criminal)?
youtube.com/watch?v=50aNiSrfj0k
Also interesting to note that in each region where this gnostic flavor was most potent there seems to be a corresponding decline/ arrested development/ corrosive force of said civilization. They failed to thrive. Coincidence or natural byproduct of the philosophy? Food for thought. Due caution is warranted.
 
=Timonator348;7818558]So if I’m counting right, and with my math skills that’s a BIG “if”, Peter, James, Matthew & John are the only ones of Jesus’ 12 apostles who wrote canonical Scripture. What about the other guys? the eight other apostles (well 7 plus Matthias), what did they teach and do after Jesus’ ascension? If only 1/3 of the apostles wrote anything worth being in the Bible how can anyone assert that the Bible contains the whole of Christian truth and authority?🤷
Just something I’ve been thinking about 😃
**Eph. 4: 10-13 ** “He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;”

**1st. Cor. 12: 3-14 **"Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus be cursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. ***For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body – Jews or Greeks, slaves or free – and all were made to drink of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many.

THIS IS WHAT THEY DID: **Mt. 28:19-20 ** “[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
”

**ALL OF THE APOSTLES WERE MURDERED FOR CHRIST IN ACCOMPLISHING THIS COMMAND. [They failed with John whom they BOILED ALVE] byt christ saved him. **

ALL were actively involved in TEACHING and Speading the Good News.

God Bless,
Pat
 
. . . and what of the female apostles? and i do believe Philip also wrote, but “Those Other Guyz” were the ones who determined whose writings would be incorporated into the “final” version. (and who were they to say, anyway!!)

believe when i say i’ve been thinking 'bout that for a very long time!!
I do not think you will find any historical or church support for “female” apostles. On the other hand, I think you will find much evidence of the work and worth of the female disciples of Jesus. That no women wrote “for” the New testament was not a slam, but a realization of the patristric structure of the day. That’s “maybe” unfortunate, but true.

Don’t you think a letter or memoir from the Blessed Virgin would have been included, had one been available?

On the other hand, I think it a specious argument to say only the men had an (name removed by moderator)ut into the canon of the New Testament. Are you not aware that, when the Jewish rabbis convened to restructure the Old Testament (throw out the Greek, keep the Hebrew), they also were all men? There were no women teachers in the Jewish faith, as well as the early Christian faith.

It would eventually be the CATHOLIC Church which would elevate women to the honored position of Doctor of the Church.

Peace.
 
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