The Papal Tiara: Yes or No?

[LoyalViews]

This is a poll, just for fun, to see who would want to bring back the Papal Tiara and…or the sedia gestatoria. Discuss…
God Bless you all!

 

[Domnall]

I really don’t think that either of these is really appropriate for the Pope. Sure, they’re symbols of his authority…but that’s really all. Could you imagine how much money could be donated to help the needy if the church didn’t spend it on things like thrones? That’s just my opinion.

 

[GIR]

I heard that from my friend pretty much the whole time we were in Rome “the church should spend its money on the poor and not on building luxurious churches”.

To be fair, this argument in and of itself goes way back, and has been put forth by holy people, but I think it’s the wrong thing to do. The church’s job isn’t to be a massive social service, our job is to save souls, and part of that job happens to be almsgiving. Beautiful architecture, art, and music feed the soul

 

[MarkThompson]

I really don’t think that either of these is really appropriate for the Pope. Sure, they’re symbols of his authority…but that’s really all. Could you imagine how much money could be donated to help the needy if the church didn’t spend it on things like thrones? That’s just my opinion.

300 denarii, maybe?

By the way, the church doesn’t save up to go out and buy things like tiaras. They are donations.

 

[MarianD]

The Pope is just a man. Only God deserves such high honors as a rich crown and being carried around. He deserves to be respected, but such things as a lavish tiara to be crowned with and being carried around everywhere he goes is pushing it in my opinion.

 

[Holly3278]

I’d love to see the Papal Tiara come back!

 

[Domnall]

300 denarii, maybe?

By the way, the church doesn’t save up to go out and buy things like tiaras. They are donations.

Fair enough that they’re donations. However, the money could be used for something better is all I’m saying

---

I agree that beautiful art and architecture helps preserve our traditions–traditions that also help save souls. A papal crown and portable thrown I believe step outside these bounds.

 

[Alveus_Lacuna]

300 denarii, maybe?

Ha! You beat me to the punch!

*Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him, “Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?”

This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. Then said Jesus, “Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.”

For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.*

It is not enough to fill bellies and keep people alive as if on a respirator. He comes to give life, and life more abundantly. These gifts are our finest offerings, and they reveal to us the glory of God here on Earth. They help us to contemplate the most exalted and glorious states of being; the height of human expression of beauty.

If you really think that the papal crown is all about the power of that one man, then perhaps you should look a bit deeper within.

 

[MarianD]

If you really think that the papal crown is all about the power of that one man, then perhaps you should look a bit deeper within.

Jesus, God Himself, rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. Don’t you think it’s fitting for His servant and chief representative on Earth to show the same humility? There’s no reason for the Pope to be treated like a king since the authority and power he has doesn’t even come from him and can, has, and will exist long after he’s gone.

 

[Alveus_Lacuna]

Jesus, God Himself, rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. Don’t you think it’s fitting for His servant and chief representative on Earth to show the same humility?

For being a catechumen, you apparently have better insight into the situation than generations of popes ever did.

Isn’t the catechumenate about learning from the Church, not teaching the Church how things ought to be done?

All meant of course in love and respect.

 

[At_Trent]

I say yes ! Then form a modern day Crusade, take Rome outside the walls and head for Vienna !

 

[At_Trent]

The Pope is just a man. Only God deserves such high honors as a rich crown and being carried around. He deserves to be respected, but such things as a lavish tiara to be crowned with and being carried around everywhere he goes is pushing it in my opinion.

You are welcome to your opinion of course, but I think the Bishop of Rome has as much claim to such honor if not more so, than say, a Queen.

If you were to meet the queen of England, would you bow ?

 

[At_Trent]

… and there was a time when Roman Catholics just didn’t say or do certain things.

Kyrie eleison

 

[Acolythus_sum]

The Popemobile has practically replaced the sedia gestatoria…but it would be nice to return to the sedia. It’s more traditional, and seems to be more reverent…

 

[GloriousOrder]

To say that the Pope ought to be denied such things is like saying we should not ask saints to pray for us. Naturally, the Pope is not God, and neither are the saints, but we honour both because their examples help us glorify God. Since most people are very worldly (myself included ), they will associate God’s glory with the glory exhibited by His people on Earth. It is no coincidence that radical, fanatical, zealous love for God fades as a Mass or parish becomes more bland in its architecture, art, and music.

Every single golden thing magnifies God our Saviour. One can compare the Papal tiara/sedia gestatoria to a Renaissance Mass, I think. The words alone (Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, etc.) are sufficient to glorify God, but we are not content with them despite their holiness! This lack of contentment with mere words has brought forth the talents of Leonin, Perotin, de Prez, de Machaut, Lassus, Palestrina, Haydn, Mozart, Schubert, and Rheinberger. If the words alone were kept (like the Pope alone without any adornment), it would simply become a recitation. When music, tiaras, golden thrones, art, and grand churches are edified, so is God.

 

[Domnall]

I can understand where many of you are coming from. However, the perception of the crown and thrown is distorted by a plethora of Catholics and non Catholics alike. To many people they both can be seen merely as a power symbol…and you know, we’ve had plenty of popes who are in it just for the power.

 

[His_little1]

I say No to the tiara. Keeping track of the big hat (I don’t know it’s proper term) is enough of a headache I’m sure.

I vote YES to redesigning the “popemobile” and making it a Ferrari Testarosa (if the poll ever comes up)

 

[Manofvirtue]

……………………,-~’’’¯¯¯’’~-,
…………………,-‘’ ; ; ;,—,_ ; ;’’-,………………………………,—,
……………….,’ ; ; ;,-‘ , , , , , ‘-, ; ;’-,—’’’’’’~–,……,-~’’ ; ; ; ;;’-,
……………….| ; ; ;,’ , , , ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ¯’’~’-, ,-~’’ , , ‘, ;’,
……………….’, ; ; ‘-, ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-, , , , , ,’ ; |
…………………’, ; ;,’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’-, , ,-‘ ;,-‘
………………….,’-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-‘ ;,-‘
…………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,’
………………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’¯: : ’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; _ ; ; ; ; ;’,
………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;| : : : : : ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘’¯: ¯’’-, ; ; ;’,
…………….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,: : ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | : : : : : ; ; ; |
……………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ¯¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’-, : :,-‘ ; ; ; ;|
……………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-~’’ , , , , ,--, , , , _ ; ; ;¯¯ ; ; ; ; ;|
……………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’ , , , , , , ,( : : : : ) , , , ,’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|
……….,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’, , , , , , , , ,’~—~’’ , , , , , ,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
…….,-‘’ ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘’~-,–~~’’’¯’’’~-, , ,,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
….,-‘’-~’’,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | ; ; | . . . . . . ,’; ,’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ‘-,
……….,’ ; ;,-, ; ;, ; ; ;, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ;’, . . . . .,’ ;,’ ; ; ; ;, ; ; ;,’-, ; ;,’ ‘’~–‘’’
………,’-~’ ,-‘-~’’ ‘, ,-‘ ‘, ,- ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ; ‘~-,-‘’ ; ,’ ; ; ; ; ‘, ;,-‘’ ; ‘, ,-‘,
……….,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ‘’ ; ; ;’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘’-,_ ; ; ; ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ;’-‘’ ; ; ; ‘’ ; ;’-,
………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;¯¯’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-,
……,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,
……,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|…’-, ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…….’’’,-~’ ; ; ; ; ; ,’
…,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’~-,–’’’’’’~-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’……,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-
…| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’….’, ; ; ; ; _,-‘’
….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…….’’’’¯
……’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’’~-, ; ; ; ; ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………| ; ; ;¯¯’’’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|
…………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ~-,__ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
………….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘….’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
…………,’ ‘- ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’……….’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
……….,’ ; ;’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘…………….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’…………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |
………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘………………………’’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |
………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…………………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’
………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’…………………………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’’
………| ; ; ; ; ; ;,’……………………….,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’,_ , ; , ;,’……………………….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’,’,¯,’,’’|……………………….| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘–,
………….¯…’’…………………………’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’~,
……………………………………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’~-,
…………………………………………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ,_ ; ;’-,’’-,
……………………………………………………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,__,\–\.
……………………………………………………’-, ; ; ;,-~’’’ \ , ,|, |
………………………………………………………’’~-‘’_ , , ,’,_/–‘

 

[CatholicLife]

I say No to the tiara. Keeping track of the big hat (I don’t know it’s proper term) is enough of a headache I’m sure.

I vote YES to redesigning the “popemobile” and making it a Ferrari Testarosa (if the poll ever comes up)

That “big hat” , is called a mitre.

 

[CatholicLife]

YES!