M
markomalley
Guest
Duh. oops. I guess wishful thinking got in the way of my eyesight.Good data. But I think you misread this one.
Duh. oops. I guess wishful thinking got in the way of my eyesight.Good data. But I think you misread this one.
Well your main point that today’s numbers are down substantially shows that corrective measures taken by the Church are working. And no doubt parents are much more cautious as well…which can’t hurt either.Duh. oops. I guess wishful thinking got in the way of my eyesight.
(my underlining above and below)Not anger, but sadness, and a solidarity with the whole Church. As Catholics, we affirm that the good done by others redound to all, similarly, the sins of each member stains all of us. That’s why, in addition to instituting the necessary measures to prevent such, and other, filfth from taking root in the Church again, we must also collectively do penance together to make satisfaction for such mistakes. Each of us should take care also to examine ourselves and rid ourselves of the sins that still cling to us, and pray for one another.
Has anyone ever considered that God may not be whispering, but shouting to us through the anguish and the anger of the violated? Does God only communicate with the Pope? Perhaps the Holy Spirit speaks through the voices of the everyday Catholic, particularly those whose trust in their Church has been betrayed. Perhaps Benedict needs to listen to those voices, and look for the guidance of the Holy Spirit through them.The first thing he should really do is to listen to what God is guiding him in this matter. If God can multiply five loaves and two fishes to feed five thousand men, a spoon might well be the tool he intends to use to restore the Church. If the tempest of the world would quell, perhaps it might be easier for everyone, Pope, Bishops and others, to hear the whisper of God.
Do you not understand that the archdiocese was/is largely autonomous? Vatican II was, in a way, a rebellion against Rome, and the bishops and priests viewed themselves as having been liberated from the Curia? Furthermore, there were in the Vatican itself many liberals who felt this was only right. Before V2, there was nothing like the USCCB with its meetings and pronouncements on political matters. There was this feeling," Whee, we are finally a part of American society, just like the United Methodist Church." Lots and lots of walls got knocked down, but one thing wasn’t the feeling among clerics–or at least liberal clerics–that they were the wave of the future and that within a few years, the obscuratism of the “Old” Church would be swept into the waste bin of history.The Vatican should have seen that Milwaukee had dropped the ball, that there was a massive cover-up and it was time to rectify this with an investigation, even after Murphy died. Not a formal trial–the perp was dead. But Rome could have interviewed the survivors, determined the nature and extent of the crimes and made some effort to make restitution to the victims. The fact that Murphy was old and dying gave Rome a very convenient excuse to drop everything.
The fact that the civil case was dropped is irrelevant.
I find the apparently massive efforts to defend the Vatican and Cardinal Ratzinger to be pathetic.
Archbishop Weakland didn’t feel this was true when he wrote to Rome for an evaluation of the case, that the violation of the confessional, according to the canonists in his archdiocese, merited a review by Rome. Rome dragged its feet and finally deemed that the perp was too old to stand trial, and he died.Do you not understand that the archdiocese was/is largely autonomous? Vatican II was, in a way, a rebellion against Rome, and the bishops and priests viewed themselves as having been liberated from the Curia? Furthermore, there were in the Vatican itself many liberals who felt this was only right. Before V2, there was nothing like the USCCB with its meetings and pronouncements on political matters. There was this feeling," Whee, we are finally a part of American society, just like the United Methodist Church." Lots and lots of walls got knocked down, but one thing wasn’t the feeling among clerics–or at least liberal clerics–that they were the wave of the future and that within a few years, the obscuratism of the “Old” Church would be swept into the waste bin of history.
Victims are “stained” by their abusers for the rest of their lives. It often has a terrible effect on their future relationships. They don’t share in the sin of the abuse, but they are greatly effected by it. As far as communal penance, that idea is common(my underlining above and below)
I can understand praying for those who have sinned against God, Church and their fellow humans, but I am not sure I understand why everyone should do penance for the sins of others. This apparently would include the victims, and I can’t see how they were stained by the actions of those who abused them.
I think JPII would have done something like this, although the personal mortification would have been in private and not for show. We all should be praying for healing. I hope that you can pray for this as well.Has anyone ever considered that God may not be whispering, but shouting to us through the anguish and the anger of the violated? Does God only communicate with the Pope? Perhaps the Holy Spirit speaks through the voices of the everyday Catholic, particularly those whose trust in their Church has been betrayed. Perhaps Benedict needs to listen to those voices, and look for the guidance of the Holy Spirit through them.
I realize the Pope is a little too old to do this, but he should make a representative group of priests, bishops, and yes, even Cardinals who have been part of these shameful acts and the resulting coverup put on hairshirts and crawl on hands and knees toward the Blessed Sacrament in St. Peter’s, announcing their sinfulness and asking God, those who have been victimized, and all the world for forgiveneness. Good Friday would be the perfect time for this.
But I feel safe in predicting that no one will even get sore knees over this.
I’d love to see that letter. Was the case reported as something historic rather than current?Archbishop Weakland didn’t feel this was true when he wrote to Rome for an evaluation of the case, that the violation of the confessional, according to the canonists in his archdiocese, merited a review by Rome. Rome dragged its feet and finally deemed that the perp was too old to stand trial, and he died.
End of story.
Except that it was only the beginning.
Rome found out about this twenty years after the fact when the guy was on his death bed. Who dragged its feet, Rome or the archdiocese.Archbishop Weakland didn’t feel this was true when he wrote to Rome for an evaluation of the case, that the violation of the confessional, according to the canonists in his archdiocese, merited a review by Rome. Rome dragged its feet and finally deemed that the perp was too old to stand trial, and he died.
End of story.
Except that it was only the beginning.
Amen. And it was the case that the Nazi regime resorted to the same tactics in the mid-thirties to discredit the Church among Catholics because of of its protests of Nazi violations of the Concordat.From First Things:
The sexual and physical abuse of children and young people is a global plague; its manifestations run the gamut from fondling by teachers to rape by uncles to kidnapping-and-sex-trafficking. In the United States alone, there are reportedly some 39 million victims of childhood sexual abuse. Forty to sixty percent were abused by family members, including stepfathers and live-in boyfriends of a child’s mother—thus suggesting that abused children are the principal victims of the sexual revolution, the breakdown of marriage, and the hook-up culture. Hofstra University professor Charol Shakeshaft reports that 6-10 percent of public school students have been molested in recent years—some 290,000 between 1991 and 2000. According to other recent studies, 2 percent of sex abuse offenders were Catholic priests—a phenomenon that spiked between the mid-1960s and the mid-1980s but seems to have virtually disappeared (six credible cases of clerical sexual abuse in 2009 were reported in the U.S. bishops’ annual audit, in a Church of some 65,000,000 members).The rest of the essay, on First Things magazine’s website, is well worth reading.
Yet in a pattern exemplifying the dog’s behavior in Proverbs 26:11, the sexual abuse story in the global media is almost entirely a Catholic story, in which the Catholic Church is portrayed as the epicenter of the sexual abuse of the young, with hints of an ecclesiastical criminal conspiracy involving sexual predators whose predations continue today. That the vast majority of the abuse cases in the United States took place decades ago is of no consequence to this story line. For the narrative that has been constructed is often less about the protection of the young (for whom the Catholic Church is, by empirical measure, the safest environment for young people in America today) than it is about taking the Church down—and, eventually, out, both financially and as a credible voice in the public debate over public policy. For if the Church is a global criminal conspiracy of sexual abusers and their protectors, then the Catholic Church has no claim to a place at the table of public moral argument.
Thank you for posting this MarkO’Malley. I’ve never hidden my head in the sand about the Pederasty that was found in the Catholic Church & the harm it caused to the victims. However, this IS Holy Week & maybe some of those who seem to ENJOY our pain over this scandal…will look at their own front porches & let us focus on this most important time in our faith.From First Things:
The sexual and physical abuse of children and young people is a global plague; its manifestations run the gamut from fondling by teachers to rape by uncles to kidnapping-and-sex-trafficking. In the United States alone, there are reportedly some 39 million victims of childhood sexual abuse. Forty to sixty percent were abused by family members, including stepfathers and live-in boyfriends of a child’s mother—thus suggesting that abused children are the principal victims of the sexual revolution, the breakdown of marriage, and the hook-up culture. Hofstra University professor Charol Shakeshaft reports that 6-10 percent of public school students have been molested in recent years—some 290,000 between 1991 and 2000. According to other recent studies, 2 percent of sex abuse offenders were Catholic priests—a phenomenon that spiked between the mid-1960s and the mid-1980s but seems to have virtually disappeared (six credible cases of clerical sexual abuse in 2009 were reported in the U.S. bishops’ annual audit, in a Church of some 65,000,000 members).The rest of the essay, on First Things magazine’s website, is well worth reading.
Yet in a pattern exemplifying the dog’s behavior in Proverbs 26:11, the sexual abuse story in the global media is almost entirely a Catholic story, in which the Catholic Church is portrayed as the epicenter of the sexual abuse of the young, with hints of an ecclesiastical criminal conspiracy involving sexual predators whose predations continue today. That the vast majority of the abuse cases in the United States took place decades ago is of no consequence to this story line. For the narrative that has been constructed is often less about the protection of the young (for whom the Catholic Church is, by empirical measure, the safest environment for young people in America today) than it is about taking the Church down—and, eventually, out, both financially and as a credible voice in the public debate over public policy. For if the Church is a global criminal conspiracy of sexual abusers and their protectors, then the Catholic Church has no claim to a place at the table of public moral argument.
The various official reports put the percentage of abusive priests at 2 to 5% of all priests in that population. The two percent referred to above is regarding all sex abuse offenders. Based on the numbers of priests vs. the population of the U.S., priests represent at best 18/100 thousandths of the population, but are, as this article says, 2% of all sex offenders. That is a ratio that is more than 11,000 times higher than the ratio of priests to the general population.According to other recent studies, 2 percent of sex abuse offenders were Catholic priests
That the history of abuse extends back many decades IS an issue, and is of consequence. If proper actions had been taken in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s or 70’s, think how many innocent children would have been saved!That the vast majority of the abuse cases in the United States took place decades ago is of no consequence to this story line
The diocese and also the secular authorities. Victims began complaining about this priest in the 1950s and they never stopped complaining. the Deaf community attempted to raise awareness for 30 years. This abuse was reported to the police numerous times. They investigated but never prosecuted.Rome found out about this twenty years after the fact when the guy was on his death bed. Who dragged its feet, Rome or the archdiocese.
It is fundamentally unjust to prosecute alleged offenders so long after the crime. That is why legal systems have statutes of limitations. And it was the diocese that was at fault.
The deaf boys and later men tried for decades to get someone to listen to them, telling priests, nuns, and three archbishops to listen to them. No one listened. *They *all were deaf, too. Finally Weakland wrote Cardinal Ratzinger in 1996. The case dragged on until Murphy died.The diocese and also the secular authorities. Victims began complaining about this priest in the 1950s and they never stopped complaining. the Deaf community attempted to raise awareness for 30 years. This abuse was reported to the police numerous times. They investigated but never prosecuted.
indianexpress.com/news/Victims–accounts-of-sexual-abuse-fell-on-deaf-ears/596558
I think that unfortunately, b/c they were Deaf, they were less likely to be taken seriously. From what I understand decades ago, in general not just among Catholics, some people believed that children with disabilities should appreciate any attention/education they got and not complain. It was not that long ago that disabled children were routinely put in institutions; that only started changing in the 1940s.