The Pope and The Witch-Activism Alert

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Cathy_of_Alex said:
cheese_sdc:

You are correct and I agree with you. The U of MN has the right to stage whatever they please, but, I too, have the right to speak out against it.

I have absolutely no intention of seeing this play. However, I may show up outside with a protest sign. And, I am going to make my concerns known to the University administration.

Free speech is one of the many things that makes our nation great. But, when something is hateful we don’t have to sit idly by and take it without comment.
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People don’t respond to protesters because they recognize truth in their arguments. They respond because they’re annoying and occasionally disruptive.

Marching the picket lines is rarely effective, and always aggravating to those around you. Writing a letter works better and doesn’t bother people who haven’t done anything to bother you.
 
Liberalsaved said:
Good. In the meantime, take any ideas of a theocracy to a country that wants them. Most of us like our freedom.
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I’m glad we agree it is good God’s Law is forever.😃 However, you need not make assumptions. Just plain silly, actually. I never said let’s have a theocracy. Perhaps you are just reading into my statement what you wish? I, too, enjoy my freedom. Again, an assumption on your part that is incorrect. Now, as to telling me to leave my own country because I hold orthodox religious views (God’s Law is forever), well…:rolleyes:
 
ChristIsTheWay said:
I’m glad we agree it is good God’s Law is forever.😃 However, you need not make assumptions. Just plain silly, actually. I never said let’s have a theocracy. Perhaps you are just reading into my statement what you wish? I, too, enjoy my freedom. Again, an assumption on your part that is incorrect. Now, as to telling me to leave my own country because I hold orthodox religious views (God’s Law is forever), well…:rolleyes:
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No, I am just sick of actually being told we do need to change our freedoms to accord with someone’s religion. My apologies if I over-reacted.
 
Liberalsaved said:
People don’t respond to protesters because they recognize truth in their arguments. They respond because they’re annoying and occasionally disruptive.

Marching the picket lines is rarely effective, and always aggravating to those around you. Writing a letter works better and doesn’t bother people who haven’t done anything to bother you.
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Liberalsaved: I did write a letter. Holding a protest sign if the play does go on, is my back-up plan.

So, life is good for you as long as you are not “put-out” by picket lines and protesters? If you don’t have to see it, you can pretend it does not exist?
 
cheese_sdc said:
Who gets to decide what is decent and what is not? Big Brother? I will stay away from that one.
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Obviously who gets to decide is the university administration doing something that is both well and justly within their powers and seemly to do so. They probably are not going to pull the plug on this play however, again based on their perfectly in-bounds discretion. Freedom of expression includes trying to change their minds and the minds of the potential audeince of the play, through peaceful protest, letters, etc as long as those acts are not immoral. That so-called progessives would find such efforts controversial boggles the mind.

Scott
 
cheese_sdc said:
Who gets to decide what is decent and what is not? Big Brother? I will stay away from that one.
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Excuse me?

“Big Brother” is the government (read Orwell’s 1984.)

We are talking about private citizens exercising their First Amendment right to “peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

In this case, the grievance is the use of public facilities to further a bigoted, anti-Catholic production. That is unconstitutional, since it amounts to government sponsorship of religious persecution.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Excuse me?

“Big Brother” is the government (read Orwell’s 1984.)

We are talking about private citizens exercising their First Amendment right to “peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

In this case, the grievance is the use of public facilities to further a bigoted, anti-Catholic production. That is unconstitutional, since it amounts to government sponsorship of religious persecution.
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Alright, lets look back on the progression of the discussion.

First this statement was made:
It’s not bullying and it would not be wrong. Free speech does not equal entitlement to a venue.
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I understood this to mean that a public institution (the University) should censor the content of insert form of speech here because it is funded by taxpayers (this is how I understand the phrase “entitlement to a venue”).

Now, the way I see it, is that if any public institution is begins to censor speech because it offends any segment of the population, well that way leads to madness.

So I responded with the statement:
Who gets to decide what is decent and what is not? Big Brother? I will stay away from that one.
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stupid italics won’t turn off
Because once one person or group of persons starts to get to decide what speech is offered public venues, then we are no longer the United States of America. We will have become some other country with no freedoms. Private venues are completely diferent. A theater owner can put on whatever production he wants, or bar whatever production he wants.
 
Alright, lets look back on the progression of the discussion.

First this statement was made:

I understood this to mean that a public institution (the University) should censor the content of insert form of speech here because it is funded by taxpayers (this is how I understand the phrase “entitlement to a venue”).

Now, the way I see it, is that if any public institution is begins to censor speech because it offends any segment of the population, well that way leads to madness.

So I responded with the statement:

stupid italics won’t turn off

Because once one person or group of persons starts to get to decide what speech is offered public venues, then we are no longer the United States of America. We will have become some other country with no freedoms. Private venues are completely diferent. A theater owner can put on whatever production he wants, or bar whatever production he wants.
 
Sorry, but the University would not be violating any democratic principles by refusing to have this play.
 
Scottgun said:
Sorry, but the University would not be violating any democratic principles by refusing to have this play.
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Again, lets look at the history of the thread:

The OP this:
The University of Minnesota-Twin Cities in March 2007 has scheduled a blatently anti-Catholic play by Dario Fo called the Pope and the Witch. theatre.umn.edu/events/index…e_month=3_2007

Ray from MN has more detail on his blog on who to contact.

northlandcatholic.blogspot.com

Please join me in writing and protesting to stop this latest anti-Catholic attack. -emphasis added
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What I object to is a minority (or even a majority) exerting force to stop someone else’s freedom of speech.

The university (a public institution) has decided to put this play on, and there was general call to stop it. I see that as an infrigement of free speech.
 
cheese_sdc said:
Again, lets look at the history of the thread:

The OP this:

What I object to is a minority (or even a majority) exerting force to stop someone else’s freedom of speech.

The university (a public institution) has decided to put this play on, and there was general call to stop it. I see that as an infrigement of free speech.
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How are they exerting force to stop it?
 
cheese_sdc said:
I understood this to mean that a public institution (the University) should censor the content of insert form of speech here because it is funded by taxpayers (this is how I understand the phrase “entitlement to a venue”).

Now, the way I see it, is that if any public institution is begins to censor speech because it offends any segment of the population, well that way leads to madness.
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So if I write a play that uses the “N” word frequently and virulently attacks Blacks, protrays them as sub-humans, the government has to provide me a venue for that play?

If I write a play glorifying Hitler and praising the Holocaust, it would be a violation of my rights if I didn’t get taxpayer support for that play?
 
Cathy_of_Alex said:
Liberalsaved: I did write a letter. Holding a protest sign if the play does go on, is my back-up plan.

So, life is good for you as long as you are not “put-out” by picket lines and protesters? If you don’t have to see it, you can pretend it does not exist?
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I don’t have a problem with the play. But I’m also a writer. If I have to put up a fuss, I use the skills I have; or I engage people in conversation. Holding a sign makes it harder to do that latter.
 
Liberalsaved said:
I don’t have a problem with the play. But I’m also a writer. If I have to put up a fuss, I use the skills I have; or I engage people in conversation. Holding a sign makes it harder to do that latter.
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I don’t think it is an either/or thing.
 
vern_humphrey said:
So if I write a play that uses the “N” word frequently and virulently attacks Blacks, protrays them as sub-humans, the government has to provide me a venue for that play?/
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I didn’t say “HAS TO”. The university already made the decision to air the play.
 
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