The Pope Is Truly Living In A Different Time

[Randy2]

I have a lot of similar feelings, but I think Benedict’s talks are worth the banality of the surroundings. His remarks on the White House lawn, for example, “baptized” the festivities that would otherwise have been just an incongruous and awkward photo op. He said things that even Bush was not willingn to say.

I don’t care for the “color” commentary on EWTN. I think their replays should focus on the Pope, and all the banter should be on the cutting room floor.

Benedict’s successive remarks on the priest sex abuse scandal will be long remembered. Such direct involvement by the successor of Peter was certainly due, with its direct chastisement of the American episcopate.

Benedict’s calm and measured seriousness betrays an exceptional degree of preparation for this trip. He could have just emailed all those talks or put them on the Vatican website. But, his physical presence is what welds it all together into historical significance. It must have been so in the days of apostolic missions, as well.

If this is what the OP is driving at, then he/she has grasped the significance. McCain, Obama, and Clinton have to take their message on the road, too. They’d be nowhere in the race if they just relied on a satellite beaming them into an electronic box.

SOMEBODY has try to wake up the American Catholic Church to basic fundamentals.

I doubt the Pope’s visit will do that. I think it is turning into a net minus. Among orthodox Catholics and evangelical Christians who were honestly hoping for more.

The visit seems mostly politically correct - set to our time and not to a timeless audience as it should have been. Denying and casting into doubt the catholic church’s claim to be beyond time. My opinion - that ‘event’ - supposedly the Mass - at Washington is not going to draw anyone into the church. It may actually drive some out.

 

[pnewton]

. My opinion - that ‘event’ - supposedly the Mass - at Washington

It was a Mass.

 

[catharina]

I doubt the Pope’s visit will do that. I think it is turning into a net minus. Among orthodox Catholics and evangelical Christians who were honestly hoping for more.

The visit seems mostly politically correct - set to our time and not to a timeless audience as it should have been. Denying and casting into doubt the catholic church’s claim to be beyond time. My opinion - that ‘event’ - supposedly the Mass - at Washington is not going to draw anyone into the church. It may actually drive some out.

as you also said:
*
"Hello??

Groeschel - is he that naive?. And why is the Pope mentionning immigration more than abortion? This is gonna provide the Dems with great fodder in the fall to attract Catholic voters."*

I’m about to conclude that perhaps you’re not terminally negative/cynical but rather naive yourself. You’re attempting to weigh the Pope’s presence and statements against what you believe the American political process “needs” from him? Now I’ve heard everything.

Would like to know where you keep finding the facts and figures that would support YOUR notion that “orthodox Catholics” and “evangelicals” are terribly disppointed. I accept that you declare that you are terribly disappointed although I have no idea why.

 

[Nordar]

I am hugely disappointed.

This visit ain’t gonna win any converts to Catholic Christianity and I suspect it will drive many on the edge out.

I highly doubt that you are hugely dissapointed,

And you know this how? YOU know that this visit is not going to win any converts?

Why pray tell will it move any on the edge(whatever that means) out?
So let me get this straight because YOU do not like The Pope or Catholicism then your word on this should be taken as Gospel?

 

[catharina]

I highly doubt that you are hugely dissapointed,

And you know this how? YOU know that this visit is not going to win any converts?

Why pray tell will it move any on the edge(whatever that means) out?
So let me get this straight because YOU do not like The Pope or Catholicism then your word on this should be taken as Gospel?

I agree with your sentiment.

Randy seems to be burdened by some anti-Catholic sentiment.
That’s why I wondered (and asked) about his ownchosen religon.

 

[Godi]

They also didn’t have high powered rifles and handguns in the 1600’s

Going even further than that, what kind of statement is that on humanity as a whole? It is pretty sad and pathetic.

 

[johnnycatholic]

If I recall righty Pope Julius II used to wear armour. I doubt he was the only Pope to do so.

Thats because Pope Julius II used to go into battle! Litterally! He deafeated all secular threats to Papal Power and cemented the Papal States together for the next 300 years! Alot better than those cissy Borgias!

 

[johnnycatholic]

I’m about to conclude that perhaps you’re not terminally negative/cynical but rather naive yourself. You’re attempting to weigh the Pope’s presence and statements against what you believe the American political process “needs” from him? Now I’ve heard everything.

Would like to know where you keep finding the facts and figures that would support YOUR notion that “orthodox Catholics” and “evangelicals” are terribly disppointed. I accept that you declare that you are terribly disappointed although I have no idea why.

If you listen to conservative talk radio there have been alot of hosts criticizing the pope for not condemning *illegal *immigration. This is a huge issue for evangelicals and orthodox catholics who form the base of the talk radio audience. I am an orthodox Catholic who would really like to see the Pope come down against illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is bad for America and has done massive amounts of fiscal damage to this country and if it continues unabated could drag us all into economic depression. If it is a political issue as you imply then the Pope should’nt even be discussing it.
I am tired of hearing these hosts insinuate that the pope is just trying to get more Catholics into American churches.

 

[KathleenElsie]

This is true. A rep from Mercedes-Benz first approached those closest to the Holy Father to see if he would be interested in a popemobile back in the 1930s. Ever since then Mercedes has taken it upon themselves to gift the Holy Fathers with a popemobile. The pope can make his preferences known as far as style goes but from what I can understand the finished product is ultimately the decision of those at Mercedes.

I found this to be a good article on the history of the popemobile.

Thank you for the history. I printed it out for my grandsons. It will be part of the modern history of the popes lesson. We homeschool.

 

[catharina]

If you listen to conservative talk radio there have been alot of hosts criticizing the pope for not condemning *illegal *immigration. This is a huge issue for evangelicals and orthodox catholics who form the base of the talk radio audience. I am an orthodox Catholic who would really like to see the Pope come down against illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is bad for America and has done massive amounts of fiscal damage to this country and if it continues unabated could drag us all into economic depression. If it is a political issue as you imply then the Pope should’nt even be discussing it.
I am tired of hearing these hosts insinuate that the pope is just trying to get more Catholics into American churches.

Thank you for responding and for explaining your frame of reference. I don’t listen to any conservative or liberal talk shows. In fact, I don’t listen to any talk shows. It is you and the talk shows, not I, who are describing the Pope’s comments as politically biased (unwise). I see him as teaching the Gospel and the concept of our shared sonship in the Father’s house. For example, the parable of the Good Samaritan tells us to assist all in need. (How’s that for a fantastic oversimplification?) Your stance (with that of others, Orthodox or evangelical), speaks to the tired notion of isolationism and ‘what’s in it for me’ from what you’ve reported here.

PS - if you’re “tired of hearing these hosts insinuate that the pope is just trying to get more Catholics into American church” then why not stop listening to them?

 

[johnnycatholic]

Thank you for responding and for explaining your frame of reference. I don’t listen to any conservative or liberal talk shows. In fact, I don’t listen to any talk shows. It is you and the talk shows, not I, who are describing the Pope’s comments as politically biased (unwise). I see him as teaching the Gospel and the concept of our shared sonship in the Father’s house. For example, the parable of the Good Samaritan tells us to assist all in need. (How’s that for a fantastic oversimplification?) Your stance (with that of others, Orthodox or evangelical), speaks to the tired notion of isolationism and ‘what’s in it for me’ from what you’ve reported here.

PS - if you’re “tired of hearing these hosts insinuate that the pope is just trying to get more Catholics into American church” then why not stop listening to them?

If the Pope is truly interested in alleviating human suffering (which I believe he is) then why isn’t he attacking the Mexican gov. for it’s corruption which is the cause of the poverty which drives the illegals to the U.S. in the first place? Whether the Pope is doing it on purpose or not he is endorsing a political position on illegal immigration that is in fact detrimental to the good of the United States. The fact that the U.S. is a soveriegn nation also means that it and it alone has the authority to determine who can legally enter the U.S. this is because the duty of the U.S. government is first and foremost to the safety and prosperity of the American people (ccc) not the Mexican people. Just like your duty is first and foremost to your family. I really wish there were a liason of conservatism (which is not just a U.S. phenomenon and is essentially a political movement that is informed by christianity and was started in the U.S. by a Catholic, William F. Buckley) to the Pope. This issue of illegal immigration sucks for me because it wrecks my ultramontanist status.
I can’t stop listening to talk radio because the conservative movement in the U.S. is the best chance to stop abortion besides civil war (along with prayer of course).

 

[catharina]

If the Pope is truly interested in alleviating human suffering (which I believe he is) then why isn’t he attacking the Mexican gov. for it’s corruption which is the cause of the poverty which drives the illegals to the U.S. in the first place? Whether the Pope is doing it on purpose or not he is endorsing a political position on illegal immigration that is in fact detrimental to the good of the United States. The fact that the U.S. is a soveriegn nation also means that it and it alone has the authority to determine who can legally enter the U.S. this is because the duty of the U.S. government is first and foremost to the safety and prosperity of the American people (ccc) not the Mexican people. Just like your duty is first and foremost to your family. I really wish there were a liason of conservatism (which is not just a U.S. phenomenon and is essentially a political movement that is informed by christianity and was started in the U.S. by a Catholic, William F. Buckley) to the Pope. This issue of illegal immigration sucks for me because it wrecks my ultramontanist status.
I can’t stop listening to talk radio because the conservative movement in the U.S. is the best chance to stop abortion besides civil war (along with prayer of course).

The Holy Father was HERE so he spoke to those of us who live HERE. We should listen with open hearts (as well as ears).

I know that Mexico removed its 100 yrs of anti-Church laws only within the past 10 or 20 yrs. I know that Mexican Catholics were worse than second-class citizens for that 100 yrs and they’re not much better off now. I’m certain that the Holy Father has spoken to and will continue to speak to Mexico’s government about Mexico’s government but he won’t be doing so while he’s in some other nation. Why would he speak to that nation from this nation? He wouldn’t.

It might be that you’re mixing up your faith with your politics. The Holy Father doesn’t do politics because he is above politics. I thank God for his visit and for his wisdom. I’ve been in pro-life work for more than 30 yrs. My choice is to ignore talk radio.

 

[Larowyn]

As much as I hate to say it, the pope riding in the popemobile waving at thousands of Catholics reminds me of Baghwan Shree Rajneesh, who started a cult in Oregon in the 80s and every day rode around in gold a Rolls Royce to wave at his followers.

This is the best article I could find about him: platypuscomix.net/people/rajneeshee.html

 

[pnewton]

As much as I hate to say it, the pope riding in the popemobile waving at thousands of Catholics reminds me of Baghwan Shree Rajneesh, who started a cult in Oregon in the 80s and every day rode around in gold a Rolls Royce to wave at his followers.

This is the best article I could find about him: platypuscomix.net/people/rajneeshee.html

Nothing in your link resembles the Pope or his transport. Is it waving you are critical of?
Look at me. I am now a cult leader.

 

[Larowyn]

No, it’s the part about a religious leader waving from an unusual vehicle at his flock.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

I like the popemobile lol besides if we had popes walking around carefree and unprotected, due to the increased violence, we’d have to elect a new pope every few weeks. I’d prefer him to be safe behind glass…

 

[Nordar]

No, it’s the part about a religious leader waving from an unusual vehicle at his flock.

And your point is?

 

[Larowyn]

It’s just like the Baghwan in Oregon?

 

[jc-servant]

It’s just like the Baghwan in Oregon?

Actually, the Holy Father is riding in a modified Mercedes that is donated by that company. It certainly costs a lot less to modify a Mercedes than it does to do anything with a Rolls.

He is more than 80 years old, so I don’t see the current Pope walking even a few blocks just to wave at the people. He would have to be shadowed by an armored limo in that case so that security could get him away in case of trouble. It would block the view of people on one side of the street.

He is being kind to the people who would like to see him by riding up high in the clear vehicle because he is a shy, scholarly man who is clearly not comfortable being the center of attention.

I think that you are straining to find some similarity in the two situations.

 

[Larowyn]

I go to a college where Catholics and Catholicism are suspicious and unpopular, so I find myself thinking of ways people might find something to criticize the Church about.