The pope kissing the quran

[jeffreedy789]

um - i believe personal attacks are considered ‘uncharitable’. please keep your arguments centered on what we’re discussing, and not on other posters.

and why don’t you answer me? you seem to ignore the people who give you good and honest answers to your questions.

 

[Sirach14]

Talk about beating a dead horse to death. This was answered at least five years ago. Ex-Catholics needed something to whip the Church and pope with.

 

[jeffreedy789]

well, in all fairness, i think we’ll see most of these questions over and over. even on this board, the same issues come up time and again, because the threads get abandoned to those ‘2nd and 3rd’ pages, where no one ever goes. at least i don’t.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

excatholic:

Any way you look at it friend it is a compromise! Like it or not. It hurt me also.

and what exactly is wrong with compromise?

you catch more flies with honey

 

[PMV]

excatholic:

Pope John Paul II kissing the Islamic Qur’an

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ChristBearer72/popekora.jpg

***“a person’s actions define what he stands for.” ***

**- quoted from “The Acting Person,” a book by **Karol Jozef Wojtyla (today known as Pope John Paul II)

What you see here is the Pope showing respect to people of different belief systems. He also probably acknowledges the truth in the Koran (it has simularities to Christianity). ExCatholic, you have to stop taking everything so literally. “a person’s actions define what he stands for.” In this case, the Pope’s actions show that he stands for respecting other people’s beliefs, and he likely respects the goodness found in Islam. In fact, this COULD attract more Muslims to Catholicism since they see how loving and respectful the Pope is towards them, despite their beliefs. If the Pope would have thrown the Koran down and angrily told that man that he is not in the favor at all of Islam, and to get the Koran out of his face, that’d TURN OFF and OFFEND Muslims, and they’d despise Christianity perhaps even more. Seeing that he respects their culture rather than despises it could draw Muslims toward Christianity since they see the light in it.

excatholic:

Jesus said, “Judas, is it with a kiss that you betray the Son of Man?”

(Luke 22:48)

Notice that Jesus said that to Judas; not Pope John Paul II, genius.

excatholic:

Look how far you have fallen from your first love! Turn back to me again and work as you did at first. If you don’t, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.

(Revelation 2:5)

Well, let me think; the Catholic Church seems to be the first recorded Church devoted to Jesus in History, and the Protestant churches are the results of Martin Luther, who has turned against the Catholic Church. Anyone see where I’m getting here?

 

[PMV]

excatholic:

**Pope John Paul II has “rejoiced” with Hindus and their “gods” during ceremonies such as their “Festival of http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ChristBearer72/popetik.jpg****Lights” and he even received the Hindu’s “divine eye” mark on his forehead. According to a report from the Vatican’s own FIDES News Service, on May 14, 1999 he kissed the Muslim Qur’an which denies our Lord as the Son of God he has built shrines to the so-called ****“Virgin of Guadalupe” apparition which has been documented as one lie stacked on top of another for centuries ****and he’s placed his own image on everything from “baseball-type cards” inside of potato chip bags to “Papal Miracle Mugs” *****(pour some hot water into the mug and instantly the black sky clears to reveal a giant Pope John Paul II bending over a city, his hands clasped devoutly in prayer). ***

**On one hand he preaches Christ and with the other hand he slaps our Savior in the face. **

He does not preach the Gospel of Christ, he preaches the Roman Catholic doctrine of the “Lumen Gentium” from Vatican II which as his very own Cardinal’s have stated says that you don’t need Jesus Christ to attain salvation:

First statement was wrong. Pope did not rejoice with Hindu’s “gods.” You’re being a story twister. He enjoyed being in the prescence of other religious leaders and people who seek God. Also, his kissing of the Koran does not mean he denies the Word of God, it means he’s showing some respect for other peoples’ beliefs.
When he “participates” in other religious ceremonies it is because they’re for religious leaders, and he is obviously one. However, as a close minded Fundamentalist you assume he “worships” what he respects. There’s a difference in participating in the rituals of a religion to acknowledge differences and to actually *believe *in the religions. You have to start thinking with a more open mind.
Also, what’s wrong with him being on some “baseball-type cards?” First of all, what do you mean by “baseball-type?” There’s nothing wrong with having a picture of yourself on a card; that’s not making any sense to me.
He slaps our Lord in the face? How? By respecting different kinds of people and showing them some interest?!
The Roman Catholic doctrine mainly comes from the teachings of the BIBLE! Post anything that CONFLICTS with the Bible that is from RC doctrine, and THEN say it’s wrong. Tell me *anything *about Catholicism that opposes Chritianity, so I can happily and succesfully oppose it. Catholicism is the only religion that contains the *fullness *of Christainity in it.

If you SINCERELEY believe in everything you posted here from that stupid website, then you’d respond to my objections. If not, then I’m sure that you just came here to bug us for no reason.

 

[PMV]

ExCatholic, if you visited another religious ceremony just to be there, and you respected the people around you, does that mean you *believe *in their god?

Also, when that person gave him the mark of the “divine eye,” it was his own view of showing the Pope respect. What did you expect the Pope to do, despise him? If a Muslim was kind to you and said something like “May Allah bless you,” it’s obvious that you’d smile to them and be happy they love you and are showing it in their way, rather than say “I don’t want your blessings! Jesus is my Lord!” Know what I mean?

ExCatholic, although your fundamentalism is incorrect and unintelligent, as a Catholic I must say…

 

[ICXCNIKA]

excatholic:

I’m an English teacher; try a dictionary.

I must say I think you are in the wrong forum. You really don’t have the temperment for apologetics. You are far to hostile and I think this is lesson 1

I’m sorry if that sounded hostile. It was meant as a joke. If you’ve looked at my other posts you’ll notice that I add a rather satirical, jocular attitude to my posts. Sometimes people are offended by this and I meant nothing personal by it.

One of the problems with posting in forums like this is that we cannot read body language or tonal inflections that give us clues.

So once again, I appologize if my post seemed hostile.

Peace.

 

[ICXCNIKA]

Steve Andersen:

and what exactly is wrong with compromise?

you catch more flies with honey

Who wants flies when you’ve got honey?

 

[Pisio]

excatholic:

I know exactly what I hate and it is anything that Satan does.

Anyone else find the humor in this statement? :bounce:

In Christ, with Mary
Pisio

 

[Steve_Andersen]

ICXCNIKA:

Who wants flies when you’ve got honey?

Ah but with flies you can catch fish

 

[ICXCNIKA]

Steve Andersen:

Ah but with flies you can catch fish

You got me there. Fishing is better than honey any day!

 

[Salmon]

That’s not a Hindu priestess at all.

Jimmy Akin responded to this same malicious lie a long time ago at:

Internet Question Box

Q: Someone in the schismatic group the Society of St. Pius X told me that when the pope was in India he had his forehead anointed by a Hindu “priestess of Shiva” and that there is a photo to prove it. Is this true?

A: There is a photo of the pope having his forehead anointed by an Indian woman, but she was a Catholic, not a Hindu priestess! She was giving the pope a traditional Indian form of greeting known as “Aarti,” which has no more religious significance than a handshake in western culture or giving someone a wreath of flowers as a welcome in Hawaii.

A letter dated November 22, 1994 from the Pontifical Council for Social Communications explains the custom and its role in Indian society:

“Indian Catholics . . . use ‘Aarti’ when a child returns home after receiving First Holy Communion, and when a newly married couple are received by their respective families. Nowadays, ‘Aarti’ is often performed to greet the principal celebrant at an important liturgical event, as it was on the occasion shown in the photograph. On such occasions, ‘Aarti’ is usually offered by a Catholic married lady, and certainly not by a ‘priestess of Shiva’ as has been alleged.”

The letter, by Archbishop John P. Foley, president of the pontifical council, went on to note: “Use of the ‘Aarti’ ceremonial by Indian Catholics is no more the worship of a heathen deity than is the decoration of a Christmas tree by American Christians a return to the pagan rituals of Northern Europe.”

Your schismatic friend in the Society of St. Pius X should check his facts before spreading such malicious gossip about the holy father (cf. Acts 23:1-5). He was simply about to say Mass and received the traditional Indian form of greeting for the celebrant.

Satan is the deceiver and those who embrace deception are his followers. Isn’t it odd how it is they who are always making unfounded accusations in order to lead others from the truth?

Peace in Christ…Salmon

 

[excatholic]

rayne89:

I’m not going to get into this argument with you, it’s to late at night to go into that much depth tonight and there’s some great people on this forum than can probably do it better than I can.

What I will say is you hate what you do not understand. If you think your posts today are somehow a new revelation to any of the regular members here you are mistaken. We have heard it all. Things like :
We worship Mary

We pray to the dead

We believe we have to earn our way to heaven

We follow the popes teachings and not the Bible

We believe priests forgive our sins

I’m sure I’ve missed some but I can assure these accusations are not new to us. And none of the above that I listed is true of the Catholic faith. You are listening to what others have told you and not researching Catholicism and church history on your own. For your statements to be given some weight they have to be accurate. There is already a thread about the pope kissing the Qu’ran on this forum. When I find it I will post it for you.

Friend when you say these words “hail Mary” while praying to Mary, this is a form of worship.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

So, Gabriel was worshipping Mary when he greeted her with “Hail?”

 

[mtr01]

excatholic:

Friend when you say these words “hail Mary” while praying to Mary, this is a form of worship.

Let’s look at the definition of worship (yet again):

worship

\Wor"ship, n. [OE. worshipe, wur[eth]scipe, AS. weor[eth]scipe; weor[eth] worth + -scipe -ship. See Worth, a., and -ship.]
1. Excellence of character; dignity; worth; worthiness. [Obs.] --Shak.

A man of worship and honour. --Chaucer.

Elfin, born of noble state, And muckle worship in his native land. --Spenser.

2. Honor; respect; civil deference. [Obs.]

Of which great worth and worship may be won. --Spenser.

Then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. --Luke xiv. 10.

3. Hence, a title of honor, used in addresses to certain magistrates and others of rank or station.

My father desires your worships’ company. --Shak.

4. The act of paying divine honors to the Supreme Being; religious reverence and homage; adoration, or acts of reverence, paid to God, or a being viewed as God. ``God with idols in their worship joined.’’ --Milton.

Source: Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

As you can see, the traditional meaning of worship refers to honor and respecting someone, and by this definition yes Catholics worship Mary. It hasn’t been until recently that the word has taken on the meaning of honor due solely to God, and this is why this definition is the 4th one listed.

For someone who claims to be knowledgable about Catholicism, you have yet to understand the forms of worship as defined by the Church: dulia, hyperdulia, and latria. What you consider worship in the narrow sense is what we call latria…that is the adoration due to God alone. Mary does not receive the worship called latria; we honor her with hyperdulia.

Now, as for your contention that “Hail Mary” somehow signifies worship:

The word rendered “hail” in Greek is χαίρω (chairo). According to Strong’s, the definition is:

A primary verb; to be full of “cheer”, that is, calmly happy or well off; impersonal especially as a salutation (on meeting or parting), be well: - farewell, be glad, God speed, greeting, hail, joy (-fully), rejoice.Most scholars suggest that the most appropriate definition is rejoice. Thus, we are in essence saying “Rejoice, Mary, the Lord is with you…” Now, how is asking someone to rejoice because the Lord is with them a form of worship according to your narrow definition?

 

[Gray_Mouser]

excatholic:

the term Catholic was not even used until Ignatious about 110 CE. In Greek it looks like this (Katholicos).
Jesus is the Rock and not Peter.

Have you ever heard of the word-thing fallacy? You might as well deny the Trinitarian nature of God because that term doesn’t appear in the Bible, either.

Peter was named the Rock by Jesus because he participates in the auhtority of Jesus in a special and unique manner, which was passed on to his successors. It is upon this rock that Christ built his Church, which is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Gray Mouser

 

[hlgomez]

Friend when you say these words “hail Mary” while praying to Mary, this is a form of worship.

EX-CATHOLIC,

Are you really serious in saying that??? I will say million times the “Hail Mary” and you can accuse us Catholics of “worshipping” Mother Mary if we say those words whenever you like.

But just a rebuttal of your twisted and maliscious beliefs, I will show you what exactly the Angel Gabriel addressed Mary, Mother of God, when he told her she is to be the Mother of God:

“Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!” (Luke 1:28, KJV)
“Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.” (Catholic Prayer)

Is this then a form of “worship”? So much with your ignorance!

God bless!

Pio

 

[Nate]

You cat lickers have it all wrong. Don’t you know that when the pope visited foreign countries he knelt down and kissed the ground after he deplaned?

This is a form of dirtolotry and signified the popes worship of dirt. It also implies absolute agreement with everything that anyone in the government of that country believed about politics or religion.

The significance of all this is explained in his encyclical, Quranakiss bliss, which can be found in any Jack Chick comic book.

 

[jimmy]

excatholic:

Friend when you say these words “hail Mary” while praying to Mary, this is a form of worship.

So, I guess the archangel Gabriel was worshiping Mary when he said “Hail, Full of Grace”.

If an angel of God is doing it then we should definatly be doing it because a good angel would never go against God.