The Pope Said WHAT about Condoms???

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havana1

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Why on earth did the Pope specify “male” prostitute over married couples? When I hear the word “prostitution,” I think of FEMALE. I don’t know anyone who thinks prostitutes are men. What’s the ratio of male to female prostitutes, anyway? 1 to 10,000? The message he sent to the world is: “It’s ok for male prostitutes to take a step towards sexual purity, but it’s not ok for married couples to take a step towards sexual purity?” All I can think of right now, besides the monumental faux pas, is that book “Goodbye, Good Men” (the book about rampant homosexual scandal in some seminaries) and how the pope was acknowledging gays in the ranks by emphasizing them in his comments. “Male” prostitutes? The only place you hear about “male” prostitutes is on that HBO show “Hung,” and even Ray (that male prostitute) is struggling for clients because - news flash - women typically don’t pay men for sex. Not here in the U.S., not anywhere: women typically don’t pay men for sex.

“Male” prostitutes are now the norm? Wow. Who knew?

Am I alone in being terribly confused by the “male prostitute” aspect of the pope’s comments? Because the comments seem awfully divorced from reality. 🤷
 
havana1 said:
Why on earth did the Pope specify “male” prostitute over married couples? When I hear the word “prostitution,” I think of FEMALE. I don’t know anyone who thinks prostitutes are men. What’s the ratio of male to female prostitutes, anyway? 1 to 10,000? The message he sent to the world is: “It’s ok for male prostitutes to take a step towards sexual purity, but it’s not ok for married couples to take a step towards sexual purity?” All I can think of right now, besides the monumental faux pas, is that book “Goodbye, Good Men” (the book about rampant homosexual scandal in some seminaries) and how the pope was acknowledging gays in the ranks by emphasizing them in his comments. “Male” prostitutes? The only place you hear about “male” prostitutes is on that HBO show “Hung,” and even Ray (that male prostitute) is struggling for clients because - news flash - women typically don’t pay men for sex. Not here in the U.S., not anywhere: women typically don’t pay men for sex.

“Male” prostitutes are now the norm? Wow. Who knew?

Am I alone in being terribly confused by the “male prostitute” aspect of the pope’s comments? Because the comments seem awfully divorced from reality. 🤷
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The pope was citing a specific example to make a point. He was not issuing a decree that male prostitutes can use condoms. Using a condom will never led to ‘sexual purity’, regardless of the reason.

The pope is saying that using a condom can be representative of a moral first step, the recognition that I should try to not infect someone with a disease. That does not mean that the action using the condom is good or even acceptable, just that the person has made a recognition that something should be done.

This is like saying that I am going easy on my wife and only beating her six days a week instead of seven. Both acts are evil, but only doing it six days a week is showing progress towards to the ultimate goal of always treating her with respect and love.

I would imagine that he mentioned male prostitutes is because there is never a situation where their actions could be contraception. He did add some confusion because since it sounds like he is condoning condoms for male prostitutes, why not female ones? Then why not married couples? I pray he clarifies this in a way that makes it very very difficult for the media to twist this further.
 
Well, I got to read up on what you are talking about …

However, just a tad bit of info … usually male prostitutes are for other males. Nope, women usually don’t go to male prostitutes. Maybe that clears a little up …

off to read.

Ok, I think he specified male prostitutes because mostly they are with other males and no procreation can happen. In this case, condoms have nothing to do with contraception.
 
havana1 said:
Why on earth did the Pope specify “male” prostitute over married couples? When I hear the word “prostitution,” I think of FEMALE. I don’t know anyone who thinks prostitutes are men. What’s the ratio of male to female prostitutes, anyway? 1 to 10,000? The message he sent to the world is: “It’s ok for male prostitutes to take a step towards sexual purity, but it’s not ok for married couples to take a step towards sexual purity?” All I can think of right now, besides the monumental faux pas, is that book “Goodbye, Good Men” (the book about rampant homosexual scandal in some seminaries) and how the pope was acknowledging gays in the ranks by emphasizing them in his comments. “Male” prostitutes? The only place you hear about “male” prostitutes is on that HBO show “Hung,” and even Ray (that male prostitute) is struggling for clients because - news flash - women typically don’t pay men for sex. Not here in the U.S., not anywhere: women typically don’t pay men for sex.

“Male” prostitutes are now the norm? Wow. Who knew?

Am I alone in being terribly confused by the “male prostitute” aspect of the pope’s comments? Because the comments seem awfully divorced from reality. 🤷
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I think I’m confused why you would ever think a condom would help a married couple reach sexual purity. Like a previous poster already said, its more to do with contraception. One would hope a married couple would never need a condom
 
havana1 said:
Why on earth did the Pope specify “male” prostitute over married couples? When I hear the word “prostitution,” I think of FEMALE. I don’t know anyone who thinks prostitutes are men. What’s the ratio of male to female prostitutes, anyway? 1 to 10,000? The message he sent to the world is: “It’s ok for male prostitutes to take a step towards sexual purity, but it’s not ok for married couples to take a step towards sexual purity?” All I can think of right now, besides the monumental faux pas, is that book “Goodbye, Good Men” (the book about rampant homosexual scandal in some seminaries) and how the pope was acknowledging gays in the ranks by emphasizing them in his comments. “Male” prostitutes? The only place you hear about “male” prostitutes is on that HBO show “Hung,” and even Ray (that male prostitute) is struggling for clients because - news flash - women typically don’t pay men for sex. Not here in the U.S., not anywhere: women typically don’t pay men for sex.

“Male” prostitutes are now the norm? Wow. Who knew?

Am I alone in being terribly confused by the “male prostitute” aspect of the pope’s comments? Because the comments seem awfully divorced from reality. 🤷
Click to expand...
The Pope does not say that condom usage is ok in any circumstance, he is simply saying that one who uses a condom to prevent another from getting a disease recognizes that there are limits to sex. He uses male prostitute I think because he was attempting to avoid any confusion as to condoms being used as contraceptives (in male prostitution, obviously, condoms have nothing to do with conception). However, his comments have caused varied responses: 1) the media thinks of this as a reversal of Church teaching, 2) some Catholics claim that the Pope is just advocating condoms for prevention of HIV/AIDS, and 3) condoms are ALWAYS WRONG and the Pope was just saying that one’s intentions while using a condom may actually be a good step

Definatly 3 is the correct position, birth control pills may be ok to prevent disease but condoms are NOT ok despite a lot of popular opinion
 
I don’t know why what I asked about “male” prostitutes continues to fly above the heads of everyone (apparently, I am alone in wondering this), so I’ll quote from a story that cites some non-Catholic church leaders in asking what I’m asking:

*Rev. Venicious Reeves, a popular Pentecostal preacher in Liberia’s capital, Monrovia. “The Pope should instead encourage people he classifies as male prostitutes to get out of prostitution and live in morality.”

Baptist preacher Rev. Gardea Johnson asked: “If his concern is about male prostitutes, what about the female ones who are even more vulnerable?” *

Source: news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101121/ap_on_sc/pope_condoms_reaction;_ylt=ArR1w52uyrBdx8hrMEnNHsN34T0D;_ylu=X3oDMTJtYjVxOWloBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAxMTIxL3BvcGVfY29uZG9tc19yZWFjdGlvbgRjcG9zAzIEcG9zAzYEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDY2F0aG9saWNzY2Ft

In other words - and let me put this in bold-face, so that might help communicate what I’m asking:
1.) Why did he specify gender for prostitute? Why are gay prostitutes more worthy of his attention than just any regular prostitute? Can non-gay prostitutes continue to use condoms?
2.) To quote Rev. Gardea Johnson, "If his concern is about male prostitutes, what about the female ones who are even more vulnerable?"

I know the Pope didn’t approve condom use.
I know the Pope didn’t reverse Church doctrine.
**What I don’t know is: What’s with his odd choice of example?
** 🤷
(Nobody else thinks “male prostitutes” is an odd example for the pope to give? What’s the population of gay ‘male prostitutes,’ anyway? 1%? 2%?)

It’s going to take a lot more explanation to clear up the confusion with what the Pope said. And I read Jimmy Akin’s blog about this - he didn’t address the “male prostitute” thing, so I’m still confused. Oh, well.
 
TomD123 said:
He uses male prostitute I think because he was attempting to avoid any confusion as to condoms being used as contraceptives (in male prostitution, obviously, condoms have nothing to do with conception).
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I’m pretty sure gay males don’t use prostitutes anywhere in the world. Where are these (apparently) gay “male prostitutes” of which he speaks? What about menopausal-aged prostitutes - they can’t conceive, so would they be in the same moral category as male prostitutes? What the pope did was put “male prostitutes” in some arbitrary category against which all other examples of hypothetical condom usage are to be judged. Why? That’s what I don’t understand.
 
havana1 said:
In other words - and let me put this in bold-face, so that might help communicate what I’m asking:
1.) Why did he specify gender for prostitute? Why are gay prostitutes more worthy of his attention than just any regular prostitute? Can non-gay prostitutes continue to use condoms?
2.) To quote Rev. Gardea Johnson, "If his concern is about male prostitutes, what about the female ones who are even more vulnerable?"

I know the Pope didn’t approve condom use.
I know the Pope didn’t reverse Church doctrine.
What I don’t know is: What’s with his odd choice of example?
🤷
(Nobody else thinks “male prostitutes” is an odd example for the pope to give? What’s the population of gay ‘male prostitutes,’ anyway? 1%? 2%?)

It’s going to take a lot more explanation to clear up the confusion with what the Pope said. And I read Jimmy Akin’s blog about this - he didn’t address the “male prostitute” thing, so I’m still confused. Oh, well.
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The Pope referred to male prostitutes because male prostitutes predominantly service gay, male customers. That being the case, the use of a condom will not be a contraceptive act. The sinfulness of such an act is still there, but there is no contraceptive intent when a condom is used under these circumstances.

Of course, should a male prostitute service a female customer, traditional moral teaching on the immorality of contraception would still apply.

That is my understanding of this. I hope it clears up your confusion. 🙂
 
gnjsdad said:
The Pope referred to male prostitutes because male prostitutes predominantly service gay, male customers. That being the case, the use of a condom will not be a contraceptive act. The sinfulness of such an act is still there, but there is no contraceptive intent when a condom is used under these circumstances.

Of course, should a male prostitute service a female customer, traditional moral teaching on the immorality of contraception would still apply.

That is my understanding of this. I hope it clears up your confusion. 🙂
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No. It doesn’t. By that rationale, would a menopausal-age prostitute (who can’t get pregnant) be in the same category as a “male prostitute” since it wouldn’t be a “contraceptive act”, either? If so, then why didn’t the pope mention that as an example, too? His only example was “male prostitute.” I’m sorry I’m still confused, but the explanations I’m getting aren’t helping to clarify what he said.
 
havana1 said:
I’m pretty sure gay males don’t use prostitutes anywhere in the world. Where are these (apparently) gay “male prostitutes” of which he speaks?
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Apparently you’ve never been to Southeast Asia or parts of the world known for sex tourism, have you. In sex tourism hotspots, you can find both male and female prostitutes of all ages.
 
As we say in the U.S. regarding controversial statements in politics, such as from the White House or from candidates: major, major damage-control time. I hope that the offices of communications at the Papacy are working on some clarifications, and now.

He might as well have brought up any other disapproved-of sexual practice from the standpoint of the Catholic Church. Why not mention cohabitating heterosexual couples? His moral reasoning would apply equally to them, if one partner is infected, but the bigger point is: stop cohabitating already! No? 🤷
 
havana1 said:
I’m pretty sure gay males don’t use prostitutes anywhere in the world. Where are these (apparently) gay “male prostitutes” of which he speaks? What about menopausal-aged prostitutes - they can’t conceive, so would they be in the same moral category as male prostitutes? What the pope did was put “male prostitutes” in some arbitrary category against which all other examples of hypothetical condom usage are to be judged. Why? That’s what I don’t understand.
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Ummm… why wouldn’t they?
 
The pope was discussing the issue of morality, or more specifically, the lack thereof, and an example of what might, for one person, consititute the slow climb back into morality.
“There may be justified individual cases, for example when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be … a first bit of responsibility, to re-develop the understanding that not everything is permitted and that one may not do everything one wishes."
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Nothing more. Nothing less. But expect nothing less than a media firestorm over it, taking comments out of context, the heathens that they are. I am so tired of this c**p.
 
Romanova said:
Apparently you’ve never been to Southeast Asia or parts of the world known for sex tourism, have you. In sex tourism hotspots, you can find both male and female prostitutes of all ages.
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You don’t have to go halfway around the world-they’re right here in the USA.
In larger cities-it is big (more people-more everything).

But yes, I know what you mean. My husband was in the military, and told me of some of the “talents” of the women-on the streets.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
havana1 said:
I’m pretty sure gay males don’t use prostitutes anywhere in the world. Where are these (apparently) gay “male prostitutes” of which he speaks? What about menopausal-aged prostitutes - they can’t conceive, so would they be in the same moral category as male prostitutes? What the pope did was put “male prostitutes” in some arbitrary category against which all other examples of hypothetical condom usage are to be judged. Why? That’s what I don’t understand.
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You’re right. You don’t understand. I can see that. I’m not attempting to insult, but you really don’t understand male homosexuality.

And, that’s okay (I know more than I wish I did).

Pretty gross, man.

God Bless you.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
It seems that the word used in the Italian version was ‘prostituta’ and so far we haven’t seen what was said in the original German. Why prostituta, a word denoting a woman, was translated as ‘male prostitute’ in English I can’t say. Perhaps the translator presumed that a male would be making use of condoms rather than a female? Dynamic equivalence, anyone?😉
 
havana1 said:
His only example was “male prostitute.” I’m sorry I’m still confused, but the explanations I’m getting aren’t helping to clarify what he said.
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Here’s one explanation I read:
He uses the example of prostitutes [actually, **I believe the Germans of the interview speaks about male prostitutes
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, which changes the dynamic] who might use prophylactics as a first step toward moralization, that is, becoming moral.

In addition, this condom issue is merely part of an interview. Speaking of male prostitutes was only an example – the Pope didn’t say whether or not menopausal female prostitutes are to be classed the same.

I hope this helps somewhat.

Reg.
Dominus vobiscum.
 
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