The Pope SHOULD Apologize

[The_Augustinian]

The recent events in the Islamic world prove the old saying, “Truth alone offends.”

If this is all just “radical” (and note that word comes from the Latin for root) Islam, there certainly seem to be in the majority nowadays.

“Hump of Islam,” indeed.

 

[Damascus]

I don’t.

My mistake. I thought you were a Catholic. Should have checked your profile, sorry.

Is there anything you believe that can not be proved without you having to accept it from a source more knowledgeable than yourself?

 

[TimOliv]

Mohammed did not bring evil. Yes, Islam did bring much evil in ITS NAME, it is not an evil religion. Almost all religions have done this. What faith ahs brought more evil and bloodshed with it than our Christian faith over the years in the name of God?

Yes, Mohammed fought wars, but most people fail to realize he was an extremely merciful war leader. Most people of the day would have just gone into a city and killed every thing in it. Mohammed deplored that, he only defeated his enemies, he did not slaughter them or destroy them completely.

Now, I find it strange that the Pope would talk about holy wars in relations to the Muslims and this quote from a 14th century emperor but make NO MENTION of the Crusades by the Church. If he is saying that war in the name fo faith is completely unnaceptable (and therefore we should not try to justify the Crusades) then he should have condemned the Church’s actions in the Crusades as well as those of the Muslims in his lecture. The fact that he did not and did not say that both sides were wrong, is completely hypocritical of the Pope to me.

It should also be mentioned that his lecture cannot be declared infallible (if it can than its ridiculous that the Holy Father can have infallibility in declaring what another faith believes). I’ve seen some of you folks on this board calling the Muslims evil and a false religion. I’ve seen some fo you people say the Muslims cause all the problems in the world with the bombings and the violence. I have many muslim friends and they and I would say those extremists are NOT MUSLIMS AT ALL. They are radicals and are NOT good muslims. If Christians were to do the things the extremists did, would we consider them to be Christians still if they persisted? NO.

I’ve seen some of you people defend the Pope just because he’s the Pope. He’s human and can sin and make a mistake. We should defend the Pope because he’s right, not try to find every which way to justify what he says just because he’s the Pope. He’s not infallible when it comes to what ever other religions believe, he’s only infallible when it comes to the teachings about our own Church. To that end, the Pope has made a mistake.

I find it insulting and astonishing that the Holy Father has not apologized in person to the Muslim community but rather he came short of apologizing for his words and only did this through a Vatican official. The Muslim community told him they would accept nothing less than a personal apology. And yet the Vatican goes and does the one thing the Muslim community will not accept. Were they not listening?

I find it ironic, no, check that, I find it saddening that people who identify themselves as “Faithful and devout, Catholics” openly oppose our Holy Father. Let’s not forget that as a “faithful Catholic” we believe that the Pope is Peter. Would you stand up and rant like this in Peter’s face? Benedict XVI was quoting, and the quotation implicated Islam as a radical religion of violence.

Want to chalk all of this violence lately up to radicals who are not part of the majority? How do you think Islam spread in the first place? This sinful mishmash of Jewish and Christian beliefs and practices was never meant to sustain peace. Muhammad rallied up his boys and they attacked Mecca for crying out loud!

Not to mention, their response to calling them violent and evil was killing people and blowing places up!

Christianity has a bit of violence in its past as well, how does that make us different? WE STOPPED! They are still doing it to this day! If anyone owes an apology, its you. Feel free to email it to benedictxvi@vatican.va

 

[buffalo]

Endless Jihad
The Truth about Islam and Violence

Jihad.

It was once a word unfamiliar to American ears. But in recent years it has become all too familiar. The actions of Muslim militants and terrorists have seared the word into American consciousness.

Yet even with thousands of innocent civilians killed on American soil by Islamic terrorists, the full significance of the Muslim concept of jihad has not been grasped by the American public.

In the days after September 11, 2001, American leaders rushed to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that had been “hijacked” by a fanatical band of terrorists. One hopes that these assurances were merely tactical—that nobody was meant to believe them and that they were meant to assure the Muslim world that the inevitable American reprisals were not directed at their religion as a whole.

If the world Muslim community perceived America as attacking Islam in general then the duty of every Muslim to fight for his religion—the duty of jihad—would have been invoked on a broad scale. The war against terrorism, instead of simmering with occasional flare-ups, like the Cold War, would have boiled over into a global conflagration, with the Muslim countries of the world—1.2 billion strong—mobilizing against America and the West.

Muslim apologists also rushed forward to assure the public that Islam was a peaceful religion. They disingenuously declared that the word Islam means “peace.” And they tried to portray the terrorists as a fringe group outside the mainstream of Islam.

                These were lies.

more…

IMHO if Islam was peaceful they wouldn’t want to now kill the Pope.

 

[Brendan]

I
Now, I find it strange that the Pope would talk about holy wars in relations to the Muslims and this quote from a 14th century emperor but make NO MENTION of the Crusades by the Church.

Are you aware that the Turks were invaders and that the Crusades were defensive wars, repelling a nation that came in and invaded Christian lands??

Think about it. All of Asia Minor was Greek and Christian, with it’s capital in Constantinople. The Turks at that time were a Mid-Asia migratory tribe.

Those Turks came into Greece (which includes Asia Minor) and began a systematic conquering of the land. The Arabs did the same from the Arabian Pennisula.

Urban II’s call was a response from the Christian Byzantine Emperor to resist the Islamic Invaders.

All of Egypt was Christian as well, but fell to invading Arabs in 675

So exactly who was doing all the invading here, and who was doing the defense against that invasion?

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

My mistake. I thought you [Liberalsaved] were a Catholic. Should have checked your profile, sorry.

Wouldn’t have helped. I checked, and the claim to be Catholic is asserted there, not withstanding the rejection of a De Fide teaching of the Church.

Writer David Mills (now, for a few years, a Catholic) wrote: “You must love your enemies, and turn the other cheek when they strike you, and carry their bags a second mile when they ask you, but you must not pretend that they are your friends. So also with the enemies of the truth you have been given to guard and share.” Walking that line is not easy, and in my experience, revisionist Catholics, and other revisionist Christians, aren’t up to it. Fortunately for the Church, Pope Benedict XVI is.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Deus_Vult]

Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire only spoke what was true. And is still proving to be true in lands run by orthodox Islam, which are free of Western influence. The Byzantine Empire and other neighboring areas were conquered by the followers of Islam, in the name of Islam. The only thing that prevented that from happening sooner, The Crusades! And those Crusades were initiated to defend against the radical Islamic threat of that period.

Pope Benedict may not be attributing the words himself, but he’s made it clear he is fully aware of the history of things done in the name of “Allah”. And now Muslim leaders are fuming. Calling his words “hostile”. The words were TRUTHFUL. Muhammad took by the sword and across the Middle East, Europe, Africa and Asia we see similar activity today. What can’t be obtained by it being given to them, followers of Muhammad’s own teachings from the later part of his life, are obtaining via their own form of the sword, the bomb!

Muhammad told them they would get higher in heaven if they die in battle and they are going for it. They don’t want the freedom brought to Afghanistan or Iraq. They want the rule that has enabled them to ruin territory and abuse women around the world.

 

[Ruthmary]

Are you aware that the Turks were invaders and that the Crusades were defensive wars, repelling a nation that came in and invaded Christian lands??

Think about it. All of Asia Minor was Greek and Christian, with it’s capital in Constantinople. The Turks at that time were a Mid-Asia migratory tribe.

Those Turks came into Greece (which includes Asia Minor) and began a systematic conquering of the land. The Arabs did the same from the Arabian Pennisula.

Urban II’s call was a response from the Christian Byzantine Emperor to resist the Islamic Invaders.

All of Egypt was Christian as well, but fell to invading Arabs in 675

So exactly who was doing all the invading here, and who was doing the defense against that invasion?

Yes, how is it that the Muslims get a pass for invading and taking over Christian lands, and the Christians get castigated for resisting the invasion?!!!

 

[Liberalsaved]

My mistake. I thought you were a Catholic. Should have checked your profile, sorry.

Is there anything you believe that can not be proved without you having to accept it from a source more knowledgeable than yourself?

Much. But my spirituality is personal. I don’t share it with but a select few.

 

[cathgal]

Islam is a religion of the sword, but not of mass murder.

Huh ???
Is that suppose to make a non-Muslim person feel safer because it’s not a mass murder… in your way of thinking??

Why do you mince words? Get to the point !

Violent (evil…in case you agree it’s violent but not evil) or peaceful religion ??

 

[tequilamac]

It would seem there is nothing left to argue about here. If anyone truy wanted to know if Islam is a faith in which violence by the sword to spread it is accepted and usual, simply read the papers this week. I find it extraordinary that people come here and claim that Islam is a non violent religion and does not advocate death to non believers. Burning the Pope in effigy, calling for his assassination is simply not a reflection of a peaceful religion. Why are catholics still arguing about whether Islam or Muhammad advocated violence toward the non believer? Isn’t it terribly obvious when their own clerics call for murder that Islam is a violent religion? And if you want to argue the Koran- who knows it better? The Muslim cleric advocating the death of the Pope or the average “liberal” catholic?

 

[Eden]

Much. But my spirituality is personal. I don’t share it with but a select few.

Pardon me for saying so, but you put questions about your personal spirituality open to questioning by chosing to post on a religious forum. If you would like to share your spirituality with only a select few, posting on internet sites is not the way to do it.

 

[Damascus]

Pardon me for saying so, but you put questions about your personal spirituality open to questioning by chosing to post on a religious forum. If you would like to share your spirituality with only a select few, posting on internet sites is not the way to do it.

You are correct again Eden. Just a thought here-

What if Jesus himself had taken that approach? Good thing he died for all - and not a select few!

 

[Liberalsaved]

Pardon me for saying so, but you put questions about your personal spirituality open to questioning by chosing to post on a religious forum. If you would like to share your spirituality with only a select few, posting on internet sites is not the way to do it.

By posting here I am in no way obligated to share with you what I beleive unless I am disrespecting you, which I am not doing. In the instances where my personal outlook intersects with or deviates from Catholicism, I have said so. My spiritual reasons for those agreements or disagreements are just for me.

 

[Damascus]

In case Liberalsaved cares to know- I am a Proud Papist!

My theory is - say it loud and say it proud! IF you believe it strongly share it from the rooftops …

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Liberalsaved]

In case Liberalsaved cares to know- I am a Proud Papist!

My theory is - say it loud and say it proud! IF you believe it strongly share it from the rooftops …

Just my humble opinion.

Passion for what you beleive is the optimal way to have faith, falling short of radicalism and reaching above casual, words-only faith. I always respect that, unless of course your personal beleifs involve something intrusive like sacrificing sheep on people’s doorsteps.

 

[mike182d]

Jihad does NOT mean holy war. Although a jihad can be a holy war, the word simply means struggle.

Let us suppose, hypothetically, that the history of Christianity was quite different. Imagine if Jesus and His followers had been exiled from Jerusalem by the Jews. Then, in the nearby city, Jesus amassed an army and laid seige to Jerusalem, conquering it over a series of three battles. Then Peter, Jesus’ first successor, begins a war against not only the province of Judea but against the whole of the Roman empire that is continued by subsequent successors for the next 1000 years.

If this *were *the history of Christianity, one would have a very difficult time explaining how Christanity is a religion of peace and how references in the New Testament Scriptures to “struggles” did not mean “war” when the history of its founders indicate quite a different understanding.

Yet, this is the history of Islam. Muhammed and his believers are exiled from Mecca into nearby Medina during the hijira. While in exile, Muhammed builds an army and lays seige to Mecca, conquering it in a series of battles. Then, Abu Bakr, arguably the first of the “Rightly Guided Caliphs” - begins a campaign against the Byzantine Empire and this war is expanded and carried on by subsequent successors to the whole of the Middle East and even Europe for over 1000 years, if not more.

As Catholics defending what Scripture means, we always tell Protestants to look at what the first Catholics believed Scripture meant. When Islam is held up to the same measure, “jihad” as “internal struggle” does not hold up, nor is it entirely accurate historically.

Regarding the Pope’s statement, the response from the Islamic community only seems to justify it.

 

[Damascus]

By posting here I am in no way obligated to share with you what I beleive unless I am disrespecting you, which I am not doing. In the instances where my personal outlook intersects with or deviates from Catholicism, I have said so. My spiritual reasons for those agreements or disagreements are just for me.

You must be involved in a religion that is one that supports tactics like:

You don’t need to tell the truth to a “non believer”

Islam and the Jehovahs Witnesses subsribe to this concept too.

I can see why most in either would remain hush hush about that.

 

[Liberalsaved]

Huh ???
Is that suppose to make a non-Muslim person feel safer because it’s not a mass murder… in your way of thinking??

Why do you mince words? Get to the point !

Violent (evil…in case you agree it’s violent but not evil) or peaceful religion ??

I pity you. You see everything in terms of one extreme or the other.

 

[TimOliv]

Let us suppose, hypothetically, that the history of Christianity was quite different. Imagine if Jesus and His followers had been exiled from Jerusalem by the Jews. Then, in the nearby city, Jesus amassed an army and laid seige to Jerusalem, conquering it over a series of three battles. Then Peter, Jesus’ first successor, begins a war against not only the province of Judea but against the whole of the Roman empire that is continued by subsequent successors for the next 1000 years.

If this *were *the history of Christianity, one would have a very difficult time explaining how Christanity is a religion of peace and how references in the New Testament Scriptures to “struggles” did not mean “war” when the history of its founders indicate quite a different understanding.

Yet, this is the history of Islam. Muhammed and his believers are exiled from Mecca into nearby Medina during the hijira. While in exile, Muhammed builds an army and lays seige to Mecca, conquering it in a series of battles. Then, Abu Bakr, arguably the first of the “Rightly Guided Caliphs” - begins a campaign against the Byzantine Empire and this war is expanded and carried on by subsequent successors to the whole of the Middle East and even Europe for over 1000 years, if not more.

As Catholics defending what Scripture means, we always tell Protestants to look at what the first Catholics believed Scripture meant. When Islam is held up to the same measure, “jihad” as “internal struggle” does not hold up, nor is it entirely accurate historically.

Couple with this the reality of the situation. Muslim leaders all over the world are not just requesting, but DEMANDING an apology from the Pope. Yet, these men of peace have not said one thing condemning the violence towards Catholics.