The Pope SHOULD Apologize

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You must be involved in a religion that is one that supports tactics like:

You don’t need to tell the truth to a “non believer”

Islam and the Jehovahs Witnesses subsribe to this concept too.

I can see why most in either would remain hush hush about that.
And here I thought you and I could speak like adults, devoid of assumptions on either side. I’m very sorry to find out I was wrong. If you ever want to discuss the topic without assuming I am something you have no evidence of, and without assuming you know why I do what I do, you know where to reach me (PM).
 
Passion for what you beleive is the optimal way to have faith, falling short of radicalism and reaching above casual, words-only faith. I always respect that, unless of course your personal beleifs involve something intrusive like sacrificing sheep on people’s doorsteps.🙂
The only thing that is being sacrificed here is my ability to be patient with certain posters here…:rolleyes:
 
By posting here I am in no way obligated to share with you what I beleive unless I am disrespecting you, which I am not doing. In the instances where my personal outlook intersects with or deviates from Catholicism, I have said so. My spiritual reasons for those agreements or disagreements are just for me.
I, for one, have nothing to hide.
 
Couple with this the reality of the situation. Muslim leaders all over the world are not just requesting, but DEMANDING an apology from the Pope. Yet, these men of peace have not said one thing condemning the violence towards Catholics.
It boggles my mind how oblivious they are to the irony.

“We are not violent! Take that comment back or we’ll kill you!”

Reminds me of the movie Loaded Weapon 1 with Emilio Estevez when he’s confronted by a former partner that accuses him of being gun-happy…to which he pulls out his revolver, aims it at her head, and yells: “where do you get off saying that?!”
 
I totally disagree. The Holy Father did nothing wrong.
When I think of the things Muslim clerics say…it boggles the mind. But do I expect them to apologize. Of course not.
Muslim callifate anyone? The Islamic world does NOT want to live in peace with us. They want us to convert or die.
And yes we would like them to convert to Christianity. But we don’t offer the the latter as an alternative when it comes to faith.

"And of those who say “We are Christians,” have we accepted the covenant. But they too have forgotten what they were taught.wherefore we have stirred up enimity and hatred of them until the day of the Resurrection, and in the end God will tell them of their doings…Infidels now are they who say "Verily God is the Messiah the son of Ibn Maryam ( son of Mary)…from Surah V

“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): but take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks…”Surah 4-89

“The only true faith in God’s sight is Islam.” Surah 3:19

Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." Surah 5:51

“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them.” Surah 9:121
I heard today that the Muslim God is not bound by His own words, there is no consistency in His demands. Since we know that God is the same today, yesterday, and forever, their god is certainly not our God. Furthermore, suggesting someone apologize for something, as you suggested, when no error was committed implies moral relativism.

I’m still a fairly new Catholic, but it is my understanding that we have to accept the pope’s words in regards to faith and morals (unless it is something of which differing views are permitted). Pointing the errors in another faith system, which is leading many away from the true God, is certainly his obligation. Have you invited your Muslim friends to Mass?
 
It boggles my mind how oblivious they are to the irony.

“We are not violent! Take that comment back or we’ll kill you!”

Reminds me of the movie Loaded Weapon 1 with Emilio Estevez when he’s confronted by a former partner that accuses him of being gun-happy…to which he pulls out his revolver, aims it at her head, and yells: “where do you get off saying that?!”
Well, one of the reasons is because the media is playing this whole thing up that if the Pope would just apologize, the violence would end. (Right, its that easy)

They’re just barbarians, that’s all there is to it. Civilized people don’t kill nuns who work in hospitals because they wear a cross.
 
I, for one, have nothing to hide.
It’s not a matter of having something to hide. It’s a matter of some things being personal and not wanting to share them with people who to me are only names on a forum.
 
It’s not a matter of having something to hide. It’s a matter of some things being personal and not wanting to share them with people who to me are only names on a forum.
If you two want to have it out, go for it. But can you at least take it to PMs?
 
… The Holy Father should apologize.

Here’s why:

I agree with the Pope that Holy War in the name fo religion can never be justified. However I found itsad that the Pope associated the word jihad with holy war in what seems to be an exclusive manner. Jihad does NOT mean holy war. Although a jihad can be a holy war, the word simply means struggle. I have many Muslim friends and they have told me time and time again that a jihad can simply be a daily struggle in their walk with God. I don’t know if the Pope is aware of this or not, but I wish he had made this distinction. I also think the quote was a bad choice and ill informed on the part of the emperor who made it as well as the Pope who quoted it.

Mohammed did not bring evil. Yes, Islam did bring much evil in ITS NAME, it is not an evil religion. Almost all religions have done this. What faith ahs brought more evil and bloodshed with it than our Christian faith over the years in the name of God?

Yes, Mohammed fought wars, but most people fail to realize he was an extremely merciful war leader. Most people of the day would have just gone into a city and killed every thing in it. Mohammed deplored that, he only defeated his enemies, he did not slaughter them or destroy them completely…

It should also be mentioned that his lecture cannot be declared infallible (if it can than its ridiculous that the Holy Father can have infallibility in declaring what another faith believes). I’ve seen some of you folks on this board calling the Muslims evil and a false religion. I’ve seen some fo you people say the Muslims cause all the problems in the world with the bombings and the violence. I have many muslim friends and they and I would say those extremists are NOT MUSLIMS AT ALL. They are radicals and are NOT good muslims. If Christians were to do the things the extremists did, would we consider them to be Christians still if they persisted? NO.

I’ve seen some of you people defend the Pope just because he’s the Pope. He’s human and can sin and make a mistake. We should defend the Pope because he’s right, not try to find every which way to justify what he says just because he’s the Pope. He’s not infallible when it comes to what ever other religions believe, he’s only infallible when it comes to the teachings about our own Church. To that end, the Pope has made a mistake.

I find it insulting and astonishing that the Holy Father has not apologized in person to the Muslim community but rather he came short of apologizing for his words and only did this through a Vatican official. The Muslim community told him they would accept nothing less than a personal apology. And yet the Vatican goes and does the one thing the Muslim community will not accept. Were they not listening?

Now I say the Pope was wrong. You folks will probably say he’s right. Either way, whether he’s right or wrong, IT DOESN’T MATTER. He should still apologize even if it turns out he’s right. I’ll explain it with an example.

My Mother and I fight a lot. Now I’ll say things to her face that aren’t very nice about her but they are true. They get her very hurt and offended. Eventually I suck things up and apologize for my words because I want to heal relations with my mother, no matter if I’m right or wrong.

This is what the Holy Father should do, even if he’s right. He should just personally apologize if he wants to help heal the rift he’s just opened up.

However, despite all of this, I applaud the Pope for wanting to open up dialogue between the Church and Muslims concerning jihad as holy war. But if the Pope has misunderstood Islam and its concepts, I agree with the Muslim leaders that he should educate himself on the matter. Either way, I know that God will forgive him IF he has sinned. And I pray that he will do the right things and apologize personally to the Muslim community.

Thank you all for listening to what I’ve had to say. God Bless.

-Mike
I heard today that the Muslim God is not bound by His own words, there is no consistency in His demands. Since we know that God is the same today, yesterday, and forever, their god is certainly not our God. Furthermore, suggesting someone apologize for something, as you suggested, when no error was committed implies moral relativism.

I’m still a fairly new Catholic, but it is my understanding that we have to accept the pope’s words in regards to faith and morals (unless it is something of which differing views are permitted). Pointing the errors in another faith system, which is leading many away from the true God, is certainly his obligation. Have you invited your Muslim friends to Mass?
 
If you two want to have it out, go for it. But can you at least take it to PMs?
I’d rather get back on course and focus on that whole “murder” but “not mass murder” distinction that Liberalsaved was talking about last night.
 
I’d rather get back on course and focus on that whole “murder” but “not mass murder” distinction about Muhammed’s violence.
Which is fine, and I hope you don’t think I’m sticking my nose in other people’s business. I was just noticing a little tension here which was resulting in a bunch of off-topic posts.

Back to the discussion at hand. The whole religion, from its founding to present day is based on violence. They were looking for a reason to do this. Who burns effigies anymore?
 
Well, one of the reasons is because the media is playing this whole thing up that if the Pope would just apologize, the violence would end. (Right, its that easy)

They’re just barbarians, that’s all there is to it. Civilized people don’t kill nuns who work in hospitals because they wear a cross.
How intolerant of you to be so critical of their intolerance.

🙂
 
Great post mike. I however disagree with you as you thought many of us would! The whole issue here is not Muslim-Christian dialogue, or who gets their girdle in a twist over quotes in speeches. What is at stake is the same thing that is at stake in the US. Is Christ the FINAL Word from God as our Holy Faith teaches? If He is that final Word from God, as i am sure you believe too, we must publicly proclaim this truth. Generations of Christians died for it. Mohammed, as well as you and i will appear before the Judgement seat of Christ. Christ is not a prophet of Islam…He is the second Person of the Holy Trinity, who was born of a virgin, died for our sins, rose again and took His seat at the right hand of God. From there He will come to judge the living and the dead. I know that you believe this as i do. Why are we so afraid of insulting the Islamic community by merely stating truth and so ok with the idea of insulting and relativising Christ who is Lord of all by our constant undermining of that same truth? Why must we take into account the Islamic reaction to truth if it cannot be helped and ignore that many people have given their lives to make sure it was passed on to us so we could state it for generations to come?

Once again, the Catholic Church has become vicitim of political correctness…the diabolical effort to relativise the eternal truth taught by the Holy Roman Catholic Church
 
Well, one of the reasons is because the media is playing this whole thing up that if the Pope would just apologize, the violence would end. (Right, its that easy)

They’re just barbarians, that’s all there is to it. Civilized people don’t kill nuns who work in hospitals because they wear a cross.
If lies can buy their peace, then apology should be given. But let’s not fool ourselves. They got the hard truth because of what they’ve been doing.
They’re arrogant, domineering, and irrational. Apologizing wouldn’t stop the violence but only feed their ego.
 
By posting here I am in no way obligated to share with you what I beleive unless I am disrespecting you, which I am not doing. In the instances where my personal outlook intersects with or deviates from Catholicism, I have said so. My spiritual reasons for those agreements or disagreements are just for me.
Just for the record, one cannot profess the Catholic faith and accommodate in one’s beliefs a personal outlook that “deviates from Catholicism” in faith and morals. Struggles with, yes, but deviates from, no.

However, it is certainly consistent that one who would feel free to pick and choose from the teachings of the Church – even passively, by accommodating deviations of “personal outlook” – would withhold support from the successor to St. Peter. In that, at least, there is no real mystery to unravel.

Personally, I have “my spiritual reasons” for supporting the Holy Father, and denying it be necessary for him to apologize; I am a Catholic.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
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