The Pope?

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ml1957:
Yes Christ is the head of the Church ( my bad ). Please be patient with me. This is serious stuff. Christ Jesus came to earth as a man and died for the Church. The Gospels are the inspired word of God.
God left us with this inspired word.
We are not to follow any man on earth. We are not told to follow a man on earth. The Pope is a man I see on TV.
You speak to Catholics as though they have never read a Bible or learned anything about the Christian faith. To start with this presumption is perilous. Read the articles on the website and learn from them. Once you do, you will see that Catholics have defined the Christian faith pretty well. After all, they have almost 2,000 years of practice whereas protestants have had roughly less than 500 years of practice.
 
We began by searching for a Pope. We never found one.
Really? There are lots of fathers mentioned in the Bible. And somehow you missed finding Peter? He’s in there. . . Did you look for the words “Trinity” and the coequality of the Father, Son, and Spirit? Did you find the word “Bible”?
We let the words of Jesus guide us unto salvation. Everything we need to know is written for us in the New Testament. You see after Christ died,he left us with the inspired words of God to accept him,or reject him.
Those inspired words were not available in written form for nearly 400 years after Christ’s resurrection and ascension. BTW, just how did you all know which words of God were inspired or not? There were an awful lot of “words” written in, say, the Gospel of Thomas and the Protoevangelium of James. . .but those aren’t in the Bible. Not only that, John himself said that Christ had done more and spoken more, so much that <were they to be written down, there would not be enough books in the world to hold them>. Some of the words that Jesus spoke to His apostles might have been preserved via word-of-mouth–yes, we call that “Sacred Tradition” and THAT is how we know of things like the coequality of the Trinity. And don’t you use the Old Testament? Jesus did. In fact, much of what is in our Old Testament is what JESUS called “Scripture”.

We do not read of a Pope. We still can’t find him. Come to think of it,we can’t find the word Catholic in the Bible. Gosh, Peter is too big to miss in MY bible. Once again, did you find the word “bible” in the Bible either?

By adding to the word of God you are not pleasing to him. No, it was Martin Luther who added “alone” to “faith” and it was not the Catholics who removed books from the word of God. . .that doesn’t “please Him” either.
( There is no place for a Pope on earth. The Pope is a man. A man on TV. (And there’s no TV in the Bible. . .so, just what does “You are Peter and upon this Rock I shall build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. . .” mean to you, eh?

Also we learned that you become a Christian after you hear,beleive,repent,confess and are baptized. You are added to the Church. How can an infant hear and beleive? Oh, and after becoming a Christian you stay exactly the same in size, weight, occupation, etc.? You don’t grow or change or develop physically or mentally? And you might want to argue with St. Peter and St. Paul, both of whom baptized “whole households”. . .which by definition included infants, (who can hear, my friend, even in utero after the 7th month of pregnancy) otherwise it would say, “men”, or “men and women” or “free and slave men/ women”. . .the scriptures are very specific about who in a household receives things. Look at the description of Abraham’s “household” in Genesis, for example. And are you saying that a person who can’t believe–say, a person in a coma or suffering from catastrophic brain injury–can’t be Christian? How do you know what constitutes “belief”? Haven’t you seen the new scientific findings which indicate that our brains are “hotwired” for religions belief? How do you understand the verse in the Psalms, that “before I knitted you in the womb, I knew you”?

It’s no wonder that some Protestants have such a distorted view of Catholics and Christianity. Somehow, innocently (we hope) or not, they aren’t taught the TRUTH.
 
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ml1957:
I was able to print 45 posts and discuss them with my high school bible class last night.

The first thing we agreed upon is that hostile or rude comments from loarrose and a few others should be ignored.
We searched a lot of scripture,and came to a few conclusions.
We began by searching for a Pope. We never found one.

We let the words of Jesus guide us unto salvation. Everything we need to know is written for us in the New Testament. You see after Christ died,he left us with the inspired words of God to accept him,or reject him.
We do not read of a Pope. We still can’t find him. Come to think of it,we can’t find the word Catholic in the Bible.

By adding to the word of God you are not pleasing to him. There is no place for a Pope on earth. The Pope is a man. A man on TV.

Also we learned that you become a Christian after you hear,beleive,repent,confess and are baptized. You are added to the Church. How can an infant hear and beleive?
My friend do you believe in the Trinity. That word is not in the Bible. But it is the fundemental Dogma of ALL christian Faith’s just because you don’t see the word pope in the bible does not mean he does not exist. I implore you to do some in depth research and pray for the holy spirit to open your mind to the truth…
 
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Genesis315:
You’re right, the guy who came up with the pope didn’t read the Bible. The New Testament wasn’t written until after He died…and rose again.
:clapping: Great answer! Simple and eloquent.
 
This is exactally the problem. I do not read of an office or a pope. We should reject false teachings. We are to accept Jesus,and his teachings via the written Gospels. The Apostles lived and died.
Where is the office?
 
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ml1957:
This is exactally the problem. I do not read of an office or a pope. We should reject false teachings. We are to accept Jesus,and his teachings via the written Gospels. The Apostles lived and died.
Where is the office?
We also don’t read of a Bible or a Trinity. Yet those are still significant aspects of every Christian’s belief system.
 
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ml1957:
This is exactally the problem. I do not read of an office or a pope. We should reject false teachings. We are to accept Jesus,and his teachings via the written Gospels. The Apostles lived and died.
Where is the office?
Read Acts Peter is clearly the head of the church. Do you not believe Jesus when he said you are peter(which means rock) and on this rock I will build my Church. And the gates of Hell will never prevail against it. My friend you have 2000 years of scripture and tradition that does not support your OPINION.
 
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ml1957:
I was able to print 45 posts and discuss them with my high school bible class last night.
. . .

We began by searching for a Pope. We never found one.

We let the words of Jesus guide us unto salvation. Everything we need to know is written for us in the New Testament. You see after Christ died,he left us with the inspired words of God to accept him,or reject him.
We do not read of a Pope. We still can’t find him. Come to think of it,we can’t find the word Catholic in the Bible.

By adding to the word of God you are not pleasing to him. There is no place for a Pope on earth. The Pope is a man. A man on TV.
Well, ml1957, I’m disappointed but hardly surprised. It would be impossible for anybody to do so little research into the subject and make a presentation which would represent the Catholic view with integrity.

So what was your strategy? To ask Catholics about the Papacy, reject what they say (even when based in Scripture), and thereby “prove” that the Papacy is a “tradition of men” because the word Pope does not appear in the Bible? (Why do I suspect that my first post to this thread was NOT one of those included in what you shared with the kids?)

So you didn’t find the word “Pope” in the Bible, or the word “Catholic.” Did you look for the words “Trinity” or “Incarnation?” You won’t find them either. Are the doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation “adding to the word of God?”

Let me re-write your post for you:

<<Thank you all for your efforts – at least thanks to those who were courteous and sincere. I printed out 45 posts and reviewed them with the kids.

We’re stll not Catholic, and we still don’t accept the pope, but at least we know why he’s not “just a man on TV” for you, and the kids now know that you guys read the Bible! We think of the Catholic Church as a big, bureaucratic organization; we didn’t know that Catholics see it the covenant family of God.

Thanks again. ml1957>>
 
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mercygate:
Well, ml1957, I’m disappointed but hardly surprised. It would be impossible for anybody to do so little research into the subject and make a presentation which would represent the Catholic view with integrity.

So what was your strategy? To ask Catholics about the Papacy, reject what they say (even when based in Scripture), and thereby “prove” that the Papacy is a “tradition of men” because the word Pope does not appear in the Bible? (Why do I suspect that my first post to this thread was NOT one of those included in what you shared with the kids?)

So you didn’t find the word “Pope” in the Bible, or the word “Catholic.” Did you look for the words “Trinity” or “Incarnation?” You won’t find them either. Are the doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation "adding to the word of God?

Let me re-write your post for you:

<<Thank you all for your efforts – at least thanks to those who were courteous and sincere. I printed out 45 posts and reviewed them with the kids.

We’re stll not Catholic, and we still don’t accept the pope, but at least we know why he’s not “just a man on TV” for you, and the kids now know that you guys read the Bible! We think of the Catholic Church as a big, bureaucratic organization; we didn’t know that Catholics see it the covenant family of God.

Thanks again. ml1957>>
In Nomine Patris et Filli et Spiritus Sancti. Amen. Bravo!!!
 
I am not giving my opinion. My opinion has no merit. Jesus left specific instructions on becoming a member of the Church. The Church…his Church.

Man has added to his instructions,and the Catholic people have created a Pope. Please do not let a man called a Pope lead you.
Please use the inspired word of God,and the holy spirit to lead you to salvation.
 
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ml1957:
How can an infant hear and beleive?
This is off topic, but since you bring it up, and since I never made this connection before, I pursue: It seems that the grace of faith is not absolutely limited to those of rational age. Did not John the Baptist leap in his mother’s womb when Jesus entered the house?

Lk 1:41-44
And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; . . . and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy.
How would John “leap” or be joyful if not by the grace of faith?
 
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ml1957:
I am not giving my opinion. My opinion has no merit. Jesus left specific instructions on becoming a member of the Church. The Church…his Church.

Man has added to his instructions,and the Catholic people have created a Pope. Please do not let a man called a Pope lead you.
Please use the inspired word of God,and the holy spirit to lead you to salvation.
I do use the inspired Word of God. Thats where we get the Pope. It’s not our fault that you don’t or won’t see that. I do have one question though Do you have any theological training. If not how do you claim to be able to understand the bible better than us Catholics. Everyone on this board is a leaned person. I suggest you study more and come back latter if you want.
 
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ml1957:
I was able to print 45 posts and discuss them with my high school bible class last night.

The first thing we agreed upon is that hostile or rude comments from loarrose and a few others should be ignored.
We searched a lot of scripture,and came to a few conclusions.
We began by searching for a Pope. We never found one.

We let the words of Jesus guide us unto salvation. Everything we need to know is written for us in the New Testament. You see after Christ died,he left us with the inspired words of God to accept him,or reject him.
We do not read of a Pope. We still can’t find him. Come to think of it,we can’t find the word Catholic in the Bible.

By adding to the word of God you are not pleasing to him. There is no place for a Pope on earth. The Pope is a man. A man on TV.

Also we learned that you become a Christian after you hear,beleive,repent,confess and are baptized. You are added to the Church. How can an infant hear and beleive?
Can you quote me a scripture verse which uses the word Trinity or do you not believe in the Trinity either? Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
 
My Catholic Brothers and Sisters:
This guy is a member of the Church of Christ, a Campbellite (movement of Thomas and Alexander Campbell, expelled from a variety of Protestant churches, founded what became the Church of Christ/Disciples of Christ, though these two groups don't resemble each other today). The movement was an effort on the part of some Protestants (which he is, whether he will own the title or not) to restore the practices of the primitive Church. Ironic, ain't it (to quote Bugs Bunny) since they reject the 3-fold ministry, the teachings of the Church Fathers, etc? If he'd opened the discussion politely, I'd say give him any information he wants. As he didn't, I advise everyone to do what we did growing up in the south as Southern Baptists: ignore Campbellites!
 
The baby in the womb is a great example.

A baby cannot sin.
if a baby dies it goes to heaven.

Once the baby ( Boy) knows right from wrong he is accountable for his sins. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

The baby, now a boy must hear,beleive, repent,confess and be baptized to be added to the Church.

If we agree to accept the words of Jesus and his teachings we can begin to build a understanding for each other.

Is there a truly concerned loving Catholic on this message board that will agree to listen and discuss scripture with me?
If you are not,please discontinue posting to this topic,and allow me to be heard.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
My Catholic Brothers and Sisters:

This guy is a member of the Church of Christ, a Campbellite (movement of Thomas and Alexander Campbell, expelled from a variety of Protestant churches, founded what became the Church of Christ/Disciples of Christ, though these two groups don’t resemble each other today). The movement was an effort on the part of some Protestants (which he is, whether he will own the title or not) to restore the practices of the primitive Church. Ironic, ain’t it (to quote Bugs Bunny) since they reject the 3-fold ministry, the teachings of the Church Fathers, etc? If he’d opened the discussion politely, I’d say give him any information he wants. As he didn’t, I advise everyone to do what we did growing up in the south as Southern Baptists: ignore Campbellites!
We could but if he is just trying to attack our faith I say defend it.
 
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ml1957:
I am not giving my opinion. My opinion has no merit. Jesus left specific instructions on becoming a member of the Church. The Church…his Church.

Man has added to his instructions,and the Catholic people have created a Pope. Please do not let a man called a Pope lead you.
Please use the inspired word of God,and the holy spirit to lead you to salvation.
Because Catholicism is do foreign to you you do not realize what a contradiction it to say “do not let the pope lead you” instead use the inspired word of God and the Holy Spirit to lead you.
Their is no either/or. The inspired word of God is what tells us that Jesus chose someone to lead his church, and the Holy Spirit protects the church “the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”

Absolutely nothing the Pope teaches us on faith and morals would ever be any different than scripture. He does not make up his own rules. He’s there as a protector.

Look at all the non-Catholic Christian churches. New ones appear everyday. Why? Because they disagree on a matter of faith. They split and split and split every time there’s a disagreement. They have the Bible, the seek the Holy Spirit who is to guide us in Truth. There can only be one truth -not different truths for different churches. The continue to divide because they reject the authority Jesus gave the church.
  1. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
    Matt 16:19
 
Here’s an interesting point, IMO.
Now, we know that the Bible was not written (using copies of copies of original manuscripts of all types, from the Jewish Torah and other scriptures to the gospels to the letters of saints etc.) and compiled in a canon until the end of the 4th century.

We also know that the Church possessed a hierarchy during that time; that the office of the Papacy was first Peter’s and was then passed in succession to others. We have writings from the early Church Fathers that confirm that men, called at first “bishops”, were established in several “churches” in the known Western world. We also know that prior to the written Bible being available, the “bishop” of Rome became the “leader” of the “western” church while the “bishop” of what became Constantinople became the “leader” of the “eastern” church. Well and good–a big territory needs several leaders. . .but when it came down to the big decisions, who made the final call–it was the bishop of Rome. “Pope” is simply “Papa”. . .a term of affection. Since early Christians knew that the head of the church. . .the man in Rome, the “top” leader as Peter in his capacity as first “bishop” of Rome had been. . .was, like Peter, called by Jesus to lead the flock, they looked up to Peter and his successors as “spiritual fathers”. . .just as St. Paul looked on his relationship to both Timothy and Onesimus, among others.

So, basically, a “pope”–a spiritual father–ANTEDATES, or comes “before”, the Bible. It was due to the efforts of the Popes (starting with Peter) and the other Christian bishops and priests that Christianity was spread, via word of mouth and then the Bible.

And yet people have no problem accepting that for 400 years there was no “Bible” to inform the church, but only those pesky bishops, priests and that rascally ol’ bishop of Rome. . .and these fallible people without even the KJV to consult managed to PRODUCE the Bible?

How could that be? If that Pope and his minions were so unBiblical, how is it that their fruits INCLUDED the Bible?

By their fruits ye shall know them, etc.
 
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ml1957:
The baby in the womb is a great example.

A baby cannot sin.
if a baby dies it goes to heaven.

Once the baby ( Boy) knows right from wrong he is accountable for his sins. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

The baby, now a boy must hear,beleive, repent,confess and be baptized to be added to the Church.

If we agree to accept the words of Jesus and his teachings we can begin to build a understanding for each other.

Is there a truly concerned loving Catholic on this message board that will agree to listen and discuss scripture with me?
If you are not,please discontinue posting to this topic,and allow me to be heard.
We have disscused Scripture with you… And you won’t listen. And I might get blasted for this one But in the CHRISTIAN church if you don’t believe in the TRINITY YOU AIN"T CHRISTIAN…
 
Debrown, no one needs theoligical training to understand Jesus and his Church. Jesus himself took simple fishermen and made them fishers of men.

Theological training is only as good as the teacher.
I don’t think you should be posting to my topic. I do not see any love or understanding from your words.
 
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