The Pope's words on Islam

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We should be grateful to God for the Pope he has given us, who will so fearlessly speak truth in the face of falsehood. We should also pray that God sets His Protective Hand about His Vicar. We may shortly have a martyr.
 
thechrismyster said:
the words of love themself. can you translate for us? love and peace, for sure.

http://www.nowscape.com/islam/images/Koran_IX.5_kill_infidels.gif

in case you can’t read arabic, let me help…

"Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (Jews) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. "
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I don’t read arabic.

But in any case, context is everything, as you well know from reading your bible. Mushrikun is NOT a term that refers to Jews. That much I know…the basic terms are pretty easy to learn, and there is universal agreement that Mushrikun means ONLY polytheists.
 
pro_universal said:
No, it doesn’t. But closed mindedness and bias that run deep through a community are powerful signs that that community does not possess the full truth, at least to me. When I find myself surrounded by people who are filled with anger towards Muslims and unwilling to take an honest look at their beliefs, I wonder.
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Cool. Show me a non-closed minded, non-biased community that posesses the thruth by your standard.
With one condition :it has to be from Planet Earth 😃
I have no idea how that could possibly mean anything that’s pertinent to this thread.
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It very much is. The Pope’s word started (another) “outrage” in the proverbial Arab street. I was criticising their biased outrage (see even other communities have bias :bigyikes: )

Alex.
 
pro_universal said:
I don’t read arabic.

But in any case, context is everything, as you well know from reading your bible. Mushrikun is NOT a term that refers to Jews. That much I know…the basic terms are pretty easy to learn, and there is universal agreement that Mushrikun means ONLY polytheists.
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so then, if it’s out of context… how so?
 
jAlex said:
That’s sad and at the same time intriguing…
Does that mean that your salvation depends on somebodyelse’s opinion about somebodyelse’s religion? This really sound convoluted :confused: I heard many reasons but this one tops them all …

Well, talking about tolerance, I have yet to see an outcry of such proportions next time Iran runs anti-West, anti-Jewis cartoons in their newspapers like they did not long ago. Nobody took up the streets in the West. We just treated them like someting immature, just like we did in the Danish cartoons fiasco. Now looking at how the muslims react… I do not know if I have to smile, cry, or bang my head against a wall :banghead:

Alex.
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Well put. The fact of the matter is, though, people who leave the church are looking for a reason, lest they admit human imperfection. They leave the church and say “See! I was right, there are sinners in there!” when in the meantime where are they going? To Protestant or Orthodox Churches, sometimes, which also have sinners in there, whether they choose to ignore them, however, is a different issue. But more than likely they just go home and sit on the couch on Sunday morning, feeling more justified than ever to do so.

“Why did you stop going to church?”

“Because they did away with the Latin Mass” is another good example. Many of the people who pitch that remark also refuse to attend the Latin Masses which are still offered.

I suppose then, if Pope Benedict quoting someone else who said that Islam is violent (I wasn’t aware religions of peace ran into synagogues and blew themselves up or called for the eradication of an entire people) is what it takes to justify your not going to a Catholic Church anymore, then I say kudos to you on your epiphany. However, please do not take offense that I, along with many other Catholics, will spend the interim praying for your return to the truth.
 
Well, Pro, I’m sure you’ll be glad to hear that Muslim students have already burned an effigy of the Pope in Allahabad! And that your friends are already responding to his remarks in anger!

Salih Kapusuz, a deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s party, said Benedict’s remarks were either “the result of pitiful ignorance” about Islam and its prophet, or a deliberate distortion.
“He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages. He is a poor thing that has not benefited from the spirit of reform in the Christian world,” Kapusuz was quoted as saying by the state-owned Anatolia news agency. “It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades.”
“Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks, is going down in history for his words,” he said. “He is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as (Adolf) Hitler and (Benito) Mussolini.”

Turkey’s staunchly secular opposition party also demanded that Benedict apologize to Muslims before his visit.
“The pope has thrown gasoline onto the fire … in a world where the risk of a clash between religions is high,” said Haluk Koc, deputy head of the Republican People’s Party, as a small group of protesters left a black wreath in front of the Vatican’s embassy in Ankara.:mad:

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060915/ap_on_re_mi_ea/pope_muslims

Here begin the intimidation tactics! The truth hurts doesn’t it! What can you expect from the followers of a madman!
 
pro_universal said:
No, it doesn’t. But closed mindedness and bias that run deep through a community are powerful signs that that community does not possess the full truth, at least to me. When I find myself surrounded by people who are filled with anger towards Muslims and unwilling to take an honest look at their beliefs, I wonder.
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In all fairness, some will take an honest look at Muslim beliefs, and see closemindedness, bias and anger. :hmmm:
 
pro_universal said:
No, it doesn’t. But closed mindedness and bias that run deep through a community are powerful signs that that community does not possess the full truth, at least to me. When I find myself surrounded by people who are filled with anger towards Muslims and unwilling to take an honest look at their beliefs, I wonder.
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I would love to see you try and have this same discussion in a prominately muslim country…say in a coffee house, except where you take on the task of debating the Christian stance. The conversation would not continue as this thread has; in an orderly thoughtful discussion. The conversation would likely end abruptly, and you would become bloody and/or dead.
 
Islam is not a religion of peace. There are plenty of places in the koran that call for violence, even if you could not find them. There are places that call for peace as well, but you have to take it all in together. And the evidence clearly shows that it is intolerant and violent. What eveidence? Look at how the religion is followed and has been followed beginning with Mohammed. He ruled by violence against non-muslims. Read some history. A good start is “The Sword of the Prophet” by Serge Trifkovic.

Also, where are the leaders of this religion that are condemning violence? They aren’t out there (or in extremely small numbers) because the past 1400 years as well as Mohammed dictate that violence is required. How do you not see that?

Islam has killed millions of people over the centuries.

Sura 8:12 reads: “I will cast dread into the hearts of the unbelievers. Strike off their heads, then, and strike off all of their fingertips.”

The practice of beheading non-Muslim captives extends back to the Prophet himself. Ibn Ishaq (d. 768 C.E.), the earliest biographer of Muhammad, is recorded as saying that the Prophet ordered the execution by decapitation of 700 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina for allegedly plotting against him.

Islamic civilization is not a historical anomaly in its sanction of decapitation.[36] The Roman Empire beheaded citizens (such as the Christian Saint Paul) while they crucified noncitizens (such as Jesus Christ). French revolutionaries employed the guillotine to decapitate opponents. Nevertheless, Islam is the only major world religion today that is cited by both state and non-state actors to legitimize beheadings. And two major aspects of decapitation in an Islamic context should be noted: first, the practice has both Qur’anic and historical sanction. It is not the product of a fabricated tradition. Second, in contradiction to the assertions of apologists, both Muslim and non-Muslim, these beheadings are not simply a brutal method of drawing attention to the Islamist political agenda and weakening opponents’ will to fight. Zarqawi and other Islamists who practice decapitation believe that God has ordained them to obliterate their enemies in this manner. Islam is, for this determined minority of Muslims, anything but a “religion of peace.” It is, rather, a religion of the sword with the blade forever at the throat of the unbeliever.
 
jburgherr said:
I would love to see you try and have this same discussion in a prominately muslim country…say in a coffee house, except where you take on the task of debating the Christian stance. The conversation would not continue as this thread has; in an orderly thoughtful discussion. The conversation would likely end abruptly, and you would become bloody and/or dead.
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:rolleyes:

Lord help us!

Are you all so ready to fight? Does no one long for peace?
 
readsalot said:
The practice of beheading non-Muslim captives extends back to the Prophet himself. Ibn Ishaq (d. 768 C.E.), the earliest biographer of Muhammad, is recorded as saying that the Prophet ordered the execution by decapitation of 700 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina for allegedly plotting against him.
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The problem is not in the practice itself - as it was a common punishment in that time even in Christian countries - but in the fact that this is still happening in the 21st century…

Alex.
 
FightingFat said:
:rolleyes:

Lord help us!

Are you all so ready to fight? Does no one long for peace?
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That is the point. Christians, especially the ones in this community, are indeed peaceful and tolerant. The ‘nightly news’ video shows, Islamic fundamentalist do not take other points of view well. Using violence and destruction is their most common modus operandi.

"Peace is not just the absence of war. Like a cathedral, peace must be constructed patiently and with unshakable faith.” John Paul II
 
Let’s get this clear. The pope uses a quote that is critical of the propensity of Islam towards violence. The Muslim response is…violent. Doesn’t that prove the point? Instead of being self-critical and introspective they go back to blaming others for their own problems. Islam will not solve its problems by burying its head in the sand. They need to face up to some tough issues.

pro, didn’t you see the 2 Fox reporters recently forced to convert? This is NOT an idolated incident. Forced conversion and persecution of Christians happens every day in Muslim lands. Don’t blame me for leaving the Church. That is entirely your decision. Read the catechism in full and decide then if that is your faith or not. Don’t do the juvenile thing of blaming someone else for your choice. If you believe or even want to believe in the Catholic faith then stay. But it is YOUR decision.
 
To sum it up, Islam is Satan’s religion and Christianity is God in origin.

Islam is the opponent of Christianity and advocate violence. Compare that with Christianity which teaches to love thy neighbor. The Pope in the past also condemned war. Name any Islam religious leader that condemn violence?
 
This reminds me when that infamous cartoon about Mohammed came about and they riot. I would not surprise if they riot.

Moslems are violent people.

You know, why don’t we Catholics counter protest the and support the Pope’s remarks? 😉 👍
 
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