The Pope's words on Islam

[Image_of_God]

I dont think they are that similar. Somehow this Infidel word seem derogatory. While unbeliever isnt.

So i can comfortably call myself a kaffir or unbeliever of the Christian doctrine. I am not insulting myself.

As for the command to kill unbelievers , you have to take things into context. We just dont go around killing whoever isnt muslim. or else ther ewouldnt be 10 million christians in my country .

Indonesia is the most populous muslim country in the whole wide world and no muslim sword has ever been carried there.

I am sad that people just believe what they hear and thats it.

Thanks for bieng mroe understanding than someothers any way .

salam

I completely understand how you feel. You are probably Muslim and that is okay. What I’m saying is that because it says such a thing like this someone is bound to take it radically. People, like Osama Bin Laden, probably takes this radically and that is ONE of his reasons for hatred in the West. He believes that Christianity is not correct. I never said that all Muslims adhere to such a teaching, in fact I’m glad you do not, their are also bad Christians, but the Bible never says that it is okay to kill unbelievers.

I would like if you could explain it to me, so I could understand it better.

 

[Eden]

Unbeliver = Kaffir ( One who proclaims he isnt a muslim. It is not an insult. if you call a muslim a Kaffir of jesus the son of God then he wouldnt mind. because he doesnt believe in it)

It’s not an insult to be on a list including feces and urine???

The following ten things are essentially najis:
1. Urine
2. Faeces
3. Semen
4. Dead body
5. Blood
6. Dog
7. Pig
**8. Kafir (a Non-Muslim)
9. Alcoholic liquors
10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat

This list is reproduced from www.sistani.org

 

[Image_of_God]

It’s not an insult to be on a list including feces and urine???

The following ten things are essentially najis:
1. Urine
2. Faeces
3. Semen
4. Dead body
5. Blood
6. Dog
7. Pig
***8. Kafir ***(a Non-Muslim)
9. Alcoholic liquors
10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat

This list is reproduced from www.sistani.org

Please note that not every Muslim agrees with every Islamic thing.

 

[Eden]

Please note that not every Muslim agrees with every Islamic thing.

When a Muslim is confronted with an aspect of their faith that they wish to hide from non-believers, they may use al-takeyya (see “Lying in Islam” at islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml). This kind of claim that “not every Muslim agrees with every Islamic thing” is not only a weak response but also a deception. All Westerners need to educate themselves about al-takeyya and be aware of surah 5:51 that states that no Muslim may befriend a Christian or Jew.

 

[cargopilot]

Please note that not every Muslim agrees with every Islamic thing.

That just makes them a “bad” Muslim. But every “bad” Muslim can become a “good” Muslim.

Just like not every Catholic agrees with every Catholic thing. We know there are plenty of Catholics who support abortion, use birth control, divorce and remarry, and so on. We used to call them “bad” Catholics, but I think there are more politically-correct terms used, today.

 

[pro_universal]

When a Muslim is confronted with an aspect of their faith that they wish to hide from non-believers, they may use al-takeyya (see “Lying in Islam” at islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml). This kind of claim that “not every Muslim agrees with every Islamic thing” is not only a weak response but also a deception. All Westerners need to educate themselves about al-takeyya and be aware of surah 5:51 that states that no Muslim may befriend a Christian or Jew.

This argument is silly. It smacks of conspiracy theory, and you are basically prejudging people to be liars based on religious affiliation.

Here’s a good example of the same reasoning applied to Catholics:

“Don’t listen to Catholics, because they are commanded to lie by a secret document. And don’t ask to see the document either, because they’ll lie and say it doesn’t exist. And if you do see the document, they’ll just lie and say it’s not authoritative!”

Setting up the claim as you do is a self-fulfilling prophesy: If any Muslim disputes that lying is generally allowed, you will accuse him/her of lying.

 

[exoflare]

This argument is silly. It smacks of conspiracy theory, and you are basically prejudging people to be liars based on religious affiliation.

Here’s a good example of the same reasoning applied to Catholics:

“Don’t listen to Catholics, because they are commanded to lie by a secret document. And don’t ask to see the document either, because they’ll lie and say it doesn’t exist. And if you do see the document, they’ll just lie and say it’s not authoritative!”

Setting up the claim as you do is a self-fulfilling prophesy: If any Muslim disputes that lying is generally allowed, you will accuse him/her of lying.

If you think that’s the same reasoning, I don’t know what else to tell you. Everyone with half a brain is going to see that it’s not.

 

[pro_universal]

If you think that’s the same reasoning, I don’t know what else to tell you. Everyone with half a brain is going to see that it’s not.

Please then, help me grow a whole brain by explaining to me the difference.

 

[meedo]

It’s not an insult to be on a list including feces and urine???

The following ten things are essentially najis:
1. Urine
2. Faeces
3. Semen
4. Dead body
5. Blood
6. Dog
7. Pig
***8. Kafir ***(a Non-Muslim)
9. Alcoholic liquors
10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat

This list is reproduced from www.sistani.org

Well , if you rea dthe Quran you will find that Gambling and dice and statues of living creatures are also called Najas.

The Word najas is an encompassing word that is very broad and have different Implications.

Forexample. a Kaffir are not najas Physically. But the Najas here mean spiritually. That means tthey they are not to enter Mecca.

However i dont have to make Ritual wash after i shake hands with a kaffir. Nor i have to make ritual wash after i touch a dice or a statue that is bieng worshiped by people . These are spiritual najas. Nor is Alcohol in itself as a substance najas, however drinking it is. The Meaning of najas here is that its a sin . Weather the sin of

As for the other things you mentioned these are physical najas. That mean that they are not Physically clean. You have to make ritual wash after you touch them. ofcourse the list isnt correct in the sense that a Dog is not najas however its saliva is.

Semen is not najas in Most of Jusrisdiction opinion.

I never heared in my life about this sweat of a dead animal thing.

So in a sense. A kaffir in Mecca is not allowed in the same sense as a money lender was in the temple. Not Physically but spiritually.

Hope i clarified some stuff

salam

 

[meedo]

I completely understand how you feel. You are probably Muslim and that is okay. What I’m saying is that because it says such a thing like this someone is bound to take it radically. People, like Osama Bin Laden, probably takes this radically and that is ONE of his reasons for hatred in the West. He believes that Christianity is not correct. I never said that all Muslims adhere to such a teaching, in fact I’m glad you do not, their are also bad Christians, but the Bible never says that it is okay to kill unbelievers.

I would like if you could explain it to me, so I could understand it better.

Please ask what you want.

thanks

 

[exoflare]

Please then, help me grow a whole brain by explaining to me the difference.

The Quran is not a “secret document”.

Mohammed demonstrated himself on several occasions that it was okay to lie, if it was done to further Islam.

 

[pro_universal]

The Quran is not a “secret document”.

Mohammed demonstrated himself on several occasions that it was okay to lie, if it was done to further Islam.

Great, show me where lying to further Islam is allowed in the Quran.

 

[meedo]

When a Muslim is confronted with an aspect of their faith that they wish to hide from non-believers, they may use al-takeyya (see “Lying in Islam” at islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml). This kind of claim that “not every Muslim agrees with every Islamic thing” is not only a weak response but also a deception. All Westerners need to educate themselves about al-takeyya and be aware of surah 5:51 that states that no Muslim may befriend a Christian or Jew.

Hello,

The word ''al-takeyya ‘’ is a shiite concept not a sunni one. So Nearly 80% of Muslims wouldnt know exactly how to respond to you. I Think if you accuses us of lying you have to present proof beyond that we have a different interpretation of the Quran.

salam

 

[exoflare]

Great, show me where lying to further Islam is allowed in the Quran.

Did you even read the article at all before blasting it?

What does this appear to say to you, then?

Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225

Hint: the “intention” is to further Islam.

 

[Image_of_God]

Please ask what you want.

thanks

What does it mean to “kill the unbeliever”?

 

[Eden]

The Word najas is an encompassing word that is very broad and have different Implications.

But you agree with me that the list of “najas” is a list of things that are considered “dirty” in one way or another by a Muslim. So, that in one sense or another, non-believers are dirty.

 

[Image_of_God]

When a Muslim is confronted with an aspect of their faith that they wish to hide from non-believers, they may use al-takeyya (see “Lying in Islam” at islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml). This kind of claim that “not every Muslim agrees with every Islamic thing” is not only a weak response but also a deception. All Westerners need to educate themselves about al-takeyya and be aware of surah 5:51 that states that no Muslim may befriend a Christian or Jew.

Are you saying I am decieving you? I am NOT a Muslem and therefore I cannot be decieving anybody.

My main point is that we are Christians and you should explain what you are explaining in a more charitable fashion as adressing it to someone who’s soul is precious in the eyes of Jesus the Holy Son of God. If we seek to convert anybody, it will not happen with swift accusations like these.

 

[Eden]

Hello,

The word ''al-takeyya ‘’ is a shiite concept not a sunni one. So Nearly 80% of Muslims wouldnt know exactly how to respond to you. I Think if you accuses us of lying you have to present proof beyond that we have a different interpretation of the Quran.

salam

Muhammed himself gave a list of occasions on which it is acceptable to lie:

One of Mohammed’s daughters, Umm Kalthoum, testified that she had never heard the Apostle of Allah condone lying, except in these three situations:

1. 
   *]For reconciliation among people.
   *]**In war. **
   *]Amongst spouses, to keep peace in the family.
   Since the West is considered to be the theater of “war”, it follows that it is acceptable in all of Islam to lie to Westerners about the faith’s teachings. Also, according to your holy writings (Surah 5:51) to befriend any Christian or Muslim is forbidden. I’m not encouraging Catholics not to befriend Muslims. In fact, it is a great opportunity for teaching about our Savior. But be cognizant of the fact that you are likely to get a lot of false information about Islam from those sources, especially since “good Muslims” are not supposed to be your friend in the first place.

 

[Eden]

Are you saying I am decieving you?

This kind of alarmist reaction is unnecessary. I am posting out of concern for the spiritual and physical well-being of my fellow Catholics on these forums and want to be sure that I warn them about some disturbing aspects of Islam that do not jive with our Christian sensibilities. I want to encourage all Catholics to read the articles on websites like www.islamreview.com and keep the information in mind when dialoguing here.

 

[Lance]

Attitudes like these towards Muslims have helped convince me to leave Catholicism.

I’m sad when I read these threads. A quote from a medieval Byzantine Emperor about his rivals for power is being used to describe Islam again…it’s as if we’ve learned nothing from a violent, intolerant history.

Thank you, Cestusdei, for being one of many who has helped me to see that Catholicism is not the path to truth that I need to follow.

Good bye, good luck, you are not be missed.