The power of Latin and other Church languages

[LilyM]

They have holy uses and when used in a manner befitting holiness, the devil also hates them.

They have obscene uses as well - Latinists today still study the profane poetry and prose of Ancient Rome, for example. Plenty of it is still extant. So I would disagree with the poster who says it has been ‘preserved from.filth’

None of this is any more relevant to Latin than any other language.

 

[Medawlinno]

No language is any “holier” than any other. The fact that a particular language is used as a liturgical language does not make it somehow ‘holy’.

This was/is a huge obstacle in the efforts to revive Coptic as a modern spoken language (which have gone quite well actually, but that’s another story). People just couldn’t wrap their minds around the concept that the language is not “holy” because of its status in the Coptic Orthodox Church.

People seem to forget that these are/were just the common languages spoken at the time. One can swear and curse and be just as obscene in Coptic/Latin/OCS, etc. just as well as one can in English or any other language.

 

[po18guy]

None of which, one certainly hopes, has infiltrated into theological or liturgical Latin.

The devil still hates - he is the proto-hater.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

yes i know what v2 stood for,ive read hte documents,and latin is to be replaced by the vernacular …

Can you quote that? Because Sacrosanctum Concilium says:
“Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.

But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants, according to the regulations on this matter to be laid down separately in subsequent chapters. "

So limit of Latin language’s use can be extended… but Latin was never meant to disappear.

 

[Maximian]

There is no evidence that He knew or spoke any Latin at all,

That statement is too strong. He had a conversation with a centurion, and another with Pontius Pilate. It is extremely unlikely either took place in Aramaic. As He knew Greek (He quoted the Septuagint) the conversation with Pilate could well have been in Greek but it could also have been in Latin. The conversation with the centurion is less likely to have been in Greek since not all centurions belonged to the class which would have enjoyed a Greek education.

There is evidence that in the more unruly parts of Judaea, those who wanted to demonstrate they were not troublemakers learned Latin.

Lastly, the Titulus was placed as a statement of Jesus’ “crime” and was intended as a warning to His potential followers. Evidently Pilate considered that these might include people who only understood Latin, and included therefore a Latin translation. This could imply that Jesus had already spoken to and convinced such people.

None of this is conclusive, but it is not “no evidence. “

 

[poche]

It isn’t that the language itself is holy. It is the what is within the heart of the one who prays that can be holy.

 

[LilyM]

None of which, one certainly hopes, has infiltrated into theological or liturgical Latin.

The devil still hates - he is the proto-hater.

Yes, but I think he hates everything that is good deeply, and doesn’t reserve special ire for a particular language, given that all language can equally be turned to evil as well as good purposes.

 

[phil19034]

po18guy:

None of which, one certainly hopes, has infiltrated into theological or liturgical Latin.

The devil still hates - he is the proto-hater.

Yes, but I think he hates everything that is good deeply, and doesn’t reserve special ire for a particular language, given that all language can equally be turned to evil as well as good purposes.

It’s not that he hates the language itself (or at least didn’t back when it was a vernacular). He hates it because the reason priest (esp exorcists) learn it is for pious reasons.

The devil hates all pious acts. Learning Latin to pray in that language is a pious act, therefore it really ticks him off when we pray in Latin (or Hebrew or Aramaic, or Old Slavic, etc).

 

[JSRG]

It always amazes me to see the amount of hostility that is shown to Latin. Here is St. John XXIII’s teaching on Latin: Veterum Sapientia - Papal Encyclicals

What hostility? The “attacks” on Latin in this thread have mostly been in attacking the idea that Latin has some kind of mystical sanctity that other languages do not. As I noted earlier, Latin was adopted not because people thought it was such an amazingly sacred language, but because that was what people spoke in Western Christendom (Greek and Syriac were the primary ones of Eastern Christendom). Then when Latin stopped being the language people spoke, it continued on as the ecclesiastical language for various pragmatic reasons.

In fact, that document is in full agreement with what I have been saying. Nowhere does it claim that Latin is more holy than other languages. Its defenses of Latin usage are on pragmatic grounds. It points out how it has advantages as a “dead” language: It doesn’t change so you have much less difficulty reading old Latin writings than you would reading older English writings and that it favors no country because no country has it as a national language. It recommends learning Latin because it allows one to read so many older documents, particularly religious ones.

 

[ProVobis]

And no mention of the Mass

 

[po18guy]

Languages are the fruit of his poisonous tree - as he incited the egos of those building the tower of Babel.