The Problem of Hell

[Athanasiy]

If there is a hell , then the suicide has no justification .
Euthanasia has no justification. .
Abortions which practice started from the atheistic Soviet Union has no justification.
The hell is an argument against the gas chambers for the millions of people.
Also when I hear in the daily news about the committed crimes , you are more and more assured that the criminals should know about the reality of hell , and should know that even if they can escape the earthly justice , there is a heavenly justice and much worst danger and crime against the soul.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
We are given existence. It is better to not to have EVER been given that gift than to suffer eternally by rejecting God’s merciful offer.

The non-existent don’t suffer, and are to be envied by those who suffer eternally. Therefore, choose wisely if you’ve been given existence, since there is no way to “return” your existence for a “refund”.

Agreed, but bear in mind that we did not choose to exist.

So? Since God is “most wise”, it was MOST WISE to have created us. There is no other possibility.

Since NO ONE, not even God, in this case, gets to choose to create himself (as God simply IS and was never NOT), why would an utterly impossible case have anything to do with the situation we’re talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs
He has gifted us free will, and can’t perform a “mistake”, therefore the only one who COULD have gifted us this gift (the omnipotent) eternally allows us the result of our use of this gift (free will), and will not “take back that which was mistakenly given”, because it was not mistakenly given.

Agreed as well, I do not think that God made a “mistake”, but I am trying to figure out why He did what He did.

I just think that the existence of hell is such a tragedy, that evil exist as a result of (or “byproduct” of) our free will. No one should suffer eternal damnation. It just seems too cruel.

Just my 2 cents.

Why is it a tragedy that evil exists as a result of free will?

Those who misuse their free will are given justice. Those who properly use their free will are given justice.

Is JUSTICE tragic?

ONCE you accept that we EXIST ETERNALLY as PERSONS, it is a simple choice to either do what is necessary to exist IN JOY ETERNALLY, or to do what is necessary to exist IN TORMENT ETERNALLY.

The only reason that this is not “acceptable” is if you assume that either God is unjust, or that it’s possible for a person to choose eternal torment inculpably.

It is NOT possible to choose hell without doing so culpably. That is a necessary condition to choosing hell, which is OUR choice and not God’s in any way.

Please define “cruel” as you imagine that it is applicable to God?

 

[Super_Grover]

For the Op, here are some sources for you.
The beginning of hell is to listen to the serpent who urges us to decide for ourselves what is good or evil with out reference to God.
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/hellb1.htm
Heaven, Hell and Purgatory:
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM#Hell
catholic.com/library/Hell_There_Is.asp

Thanks for the links. I read them and they are instructive. From the first link, this really caught my attention.

God solicits, touches, urges, inspires–all of that–but He never forces. All of this within space and time; at death we leave the chance of change behind: we never change our minds again. We enter into what we have chosen to become.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

We will know Satan is winning when his lies of no hell and of his non existence are believed.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[CatsAndDogs]

We will know Satan is winning when his lies of no hell and of his non existence are believed.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Luckily “winning” is not where MOST people, or even the VAST MAJORITY of people believe his lies!

If that were the case, he would already have won, and he would find his “winning margin” growing rapidly and nearly overwhelmingly in the near future.

But, as we know, he can’t win, and won’t win! Hoorah!

Those who know what the word “HELL” means, as Catholics use it and know it, and promote IN ANY WAY the “nice-ifying” of hell or the abolition of hell are most certainly the SINGULARLY MOST likely people bound for eternal torment.

That variety of scandalizing is specifically warned about not doing by Christ, and it’s price is “most high” indeed!

 

[BlaineTog]

Those who misuse their free will are given justice. Those who properly use their free will are given justice.

Neither get justice. They get more than justice: mercy. Those in Hell are merely left to their own devices; God does not actively torture them, which is what they deserve. Those in Heaven, on the other hand, certainly don’t deserve what they’ve been given, but they chose to accept all the mercy and Love God was offering.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Neither get justice. They get more than justice: mercy. Those in Hell are merely left to their own devices; God does not actively torture them, which is what they deserve. Those in Heaven, on the other hand, certainly don’t deserve what they’ve been given, but they chose to accept all the mercy and Love God was offering.

A-------------------------men!

 

[Mekio]

@CatsAndDogs: Thank you so much for your responses.

Since NO ONE, not even God, in this case, gets to choose to create himself (as God simply IS and was never NOT), why would an utterly impossible case have anything to do with the situation we’re talking about?

You brought up a good point that God Himself did not choose to exist. I’ve never thought of that. But He created us, so in a sense He caused our existence.

So? Since God is “most wise”, it was MOST WISE to have created us. There is no other possibility.

Why is it a tragedy that evil exists as a result of free will?

It is a tragedy because God wills that all should be saved:

2 Peter 3:9 : The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance. (DR)

Therefore hell is, in a sense, not in accordance to His will and is a tragedy. It is somewhat of a mystery, though, how some things can be outside of God’s will.

Which is why we should always pray for the conversion of sinners, that everyone will open their hearts to the Lord and accept His mercy and love.

Please define “cruel” as you imagine that it is applicable to God?

I did not mean to say that God is cruel. If I did come across that way, I apologize Lord.

It was more like a rant of sadness for the souls who do go to hell and of question for the reason why the reality is what it is.

I am still not sure why God created souls who ended up choosing to reject Him, even with knowing that they would do so and suffer eternal punishment.

Yet in the end I am reminded of the words of St Paul:

1 Corinthians 2:10-11: 10 God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. (RSV:CE)

Who are we finite beings to comprehend the Mind of God, the infinite being? We can only have faith that in the end He is most wise and has created the best reality possible.

We should focus instead on following Our Lord Jesus Christ, for He is our savior and trust always in His love and mercy.

Romans 8:28: 28 We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. (RSV:CE)

 

[allhers]

Your welcome Super Grover, did you get to talk to them anymore about this after reading that?

 

[Super_Grover]

Your welcome Super Grover, did you get to talk to them anymore about this after reading that?

Not yet. But the opportunity will arise again, and I’ll share some of what I’ve learned here and have some good links to give out, too.