The Problem of Hell

[Tantum_ergo]

How is “choice” any better? Even if some crazy person were to ask God to torture him eternally—although we should note that such is not the situation in most cases—God is still responsible for satisfying the request.

I see you still don’t seem to have any idea of what heaven and hell are, or sin, or God, or the nature of free will, or choice. . .

Heaven is being with God, hell is the absence. Any ‘torture’ that occurs --or any bliss either–we can only speculate on. Of course, if you have ever done something that you regret, I imagine that you have feelings of regret or remorse --even if you have been forgiven. Perhaps every now and then you suffer a twinge when you remember some hurtful thing you did. You are ‘tortured’ (in that I doubt that you specifically are trying to MAKE yourself feel these twinges and in fact would like them to cease) but they are a natural result of the evil you have done.

If you persist in that evil and you never ask for forgiveness, even when given the opportunity, then you are going to still get those ‘twinges’ in the eternal NOW of the hell which you choose freely. So. . tortures–self-inflicted, for which you (not God) are responsible.

Conversely, when you do good, you will have feelings of happiness. Every now and then you will experience a ‘pang’ of pleasure in rememberance of a good you did.

So you get ‘twinges’ as a natural result of the good you do as well as evil.

The difference is, in heaven these twinges (in that eternal NOW of the heaven which you have chosen freely) will be joys to you.

God allows you to have YOUR WILL.

If He were to force you to HIS will, how would that be the action of a loving Being?

You can always get back to me after you’ve created a universe of beings and managed to (while being perfectly just and perfectly merciful) get every single one of them to choose good while also ensuring that it was a perfectly ‘free’ choice.

Love to hear how y’all will manage that!

 

[vera_dicere]

However, from this life on earth, we can only sin a finite amount. So temporal sin does not warrant eternal punishment. It is unjust and not in line with an all just God. .

Say you get on a depression fuelled bender and you crash into a tree. You haven’t hurt anyone.

You’re sitting in the cells waiting for your trail for dangerous driving which will get you x number of years when Oprah walks in. She offers to pay the bail of everyone in there, and not only that, she will pull a few strings and get you off your charges.

But say you’re a racist, you don’t like Black people. So you tell Oprah to stick her millions and you don’t want her help.

You then have your trial and are sentenced to the maxium for yoru antics.

Who’s fault is it if you turned down your only chance of getting out?

God gives us every chance to know Him and accept Him. The punishment for refusing God in this life is not being near Him in the next. Those are the rules. Its assaine to try and pigeon hole God’s thought processes and justice, He is greater than us and our petty attempts at “justice”.

It’d be like smoking weed. In some countries you can go to jail for it for a few years. But in others you can openly smoke teh stuff in certain cafes. Is it just for a person in country A to go to jail for smoking what is legal in country B? But those in country B fail to understand that in country A things are a little different.

Most of us know the score. We have the instruction. We can refuse it and pay the heavy consquences or we can accept it and have eternal life in happiness and joy beyond anything we could ever hope for on this world… which is the next point, we are all sinners and our good deeds are but rags to the Lord. I mean, take Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the former aboritonist who has admitted that he’s done at least 75,000 abortions. He up and converts to both the Pro-Life movement and Catholicism.

If Hitler suddenly said “Oh, I’m sorry everyone for killing all those Jews, I’m going to be friends with the jews now and a good Catholic”, would the judges pat him on the back for his conversion and let him go? Heck no! He’d still probably find himself dancing at the end of the rope or life imprision.

The clock metal round thingie swings both ways. If we can get our panties in a bunch over how the Lord can punish for all eternity with Hell those that refuse Him, which some would argue is not that bad a thing to do, how can we be just fine and dandy with Him wiping the slate of murderers clean?

His justice is perfect. He gives a free pass to the worst of sinners when they repent. But punishment waits for those who don’t. And like the repentant sinner, that justice is eternal. The other point is our souls are eternal, so our sins are eternal, as is our repetence. Its not our fleshy bodies that will exist in hell or Heaven, it is our eternal souls. That’s why its important not to refuse God.

 

[hatsoff]

I see you still don’t seem to have any idea of what heaven and hell are, or sin, or God, or the nature of free will, or choice. . .

I know the Biblical portraits (or lack thereof) of these concepts. For example, the Bible variously depicts hell as a place of great suffering into which the unrighteous are thrown (Mt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30, Mk 4:47), and where Jesus and his angels stand watching a spectacle of torments (Re 14:10). In this great lake of fire (Re 20:15), the tormented beg to be released from their unbearable prison, whereupon their desperate pleas for mercy are unequivocally denied (Lk 16:26).

Evidently you take a different view, of which I freely admit I was previously unaware.

Heaven is being with God, hell is the absence. Any ‘torture’ that occurs --or any bliss either–we can only speculate on. Of course, if you have ever done something that you regret, I imagine that you have feelings of regret or remorse --even if you have been forgiven. Perhaps every now and then you suffer a twinge when you remember some hurtful thing you did. You are ‘tortured’ (in that I doubt that you specifically are trying to MAKE yourself feel these twinges and in fact would like them to cease) but they are a natural result of the evil you have done.

If you persist in that evil and you never ask for forgiveness, even when given the opportunity, then you are going to still get those ‘twinges’ in the eternal NOW of the hell which you choose freely. So. . tortures–self-inflicted, for which you (not God) are responsible.

Conversely, when you do good, you will have feelings of happiness. Every now and then you will experience a ‘pang’ of pleasure in rememberance of a good you did.

So you get ‘twinges’ as a natural result of the good you do as well as evil.

The difference is, in heaven these twinges (in that eternal NOW of the heaven which you have chosen freely) will be joys to you.

If you think that Hell is just not so bad, then I suppose that’s a less morally-objectionable theology than that of most conservative Christians. However, if Hell is indeed the place of extreme anguish which the New Testament depicts it as being, then what difference does it make what are the underlying mechanics of the inflicted suffering? How is God any less responsible for our suffering if it is a consequence of guilt and separation, as you suggest, instead of, say, the Biblical lake of fire?

 

[dostoyevskyfan]

The philosophical problem of hell is only a problem if you end up there. Otherwise it’s not a “problem”.

Hell is eternal. You can’t argue with scripture.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I know the Biblical portraits (or lack thereof) of these concepts. For example, the Bible variously depicts hell as a place of great suffering into which the unrighteous are thrown (Mt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30, Mk 4:47), and where Jesus and his angels stand watching a spectacle of torments (Re 14:10). In this great lake of fire (Re 20:15), the tormented beg to be released from their unbearable prison, whereupon their desperate pleas for mercy are unequivocally denied (Lk 16:26).

Evidently you take a different view, of which I freely admit I was previously unaware.

If you think that Hell is just not so bad, then I suppose that’s a less morally-objectionable theology than that of most conservative Christians. However, if Hell is indeed the place of extreme anguish which the New Testament depicts it as being, then what difference does it make what are the underlying mechanics of the inflicted suffering? How is God any less responsible for our suffering if it is a consequence of guilt and separation, as you suggest, instead of, say, the Biblical lake of fire?

I don’t see how GOD is responsible for OUR suffering at all. It is not GOD who 'throws us into fire --it is we who will make fire, tortures, etc. as a natural consequence of our free decision to reject God.

Suppose you are standing outside in a frigid dark winter night with your hand on the doorbell of a nice, warm, cheery house. The host answers the bell and asks you to come in. You refuse and you stand outside in that dark frigid winter suffering frostbite and feeling the agony of the bitter cold. Your choice.

Picture that this ‘standing’ is all taking place in an endless ‘now’.

Now, the writers of the Bible used metaphore and images that are bound by human terms. A ‘lake of fire’ might not be an actual ‘lake of fire’ anymore than the expression, "it’s raining cats and dogs’ would have us expecting to see puppies and kittens falling from the sky.’ Or it might be the lake of fire is something far more ‘terrible’ (being ‘beyond’ the scope of human understanding. We don’t know. But it is not God who is responsible if WE choose that for our ‘final destination’.

 

[ddarko]

Philosophically and logically speaking it is not necessary that God create immortal souls for humans.(see conditional immortality). It is possible that God could annihilate the souls of the damned after they have suffered a set temporal amount of punishment. Let me attempt to put the argument in a more formal manner:

1. For a punishment to be considered just it must be proportionate to the sin committed.
2. Eternal punishment for temporal sin is disproportionate.
3. Therefore Eternal punishment for temporal sin is Unjust.
4. So if eternal punishment exists, then an all Just God does not exist.

Though there are philosophical problems that can question the validity of premise 2 & 3 along the lines of what it means to be eternal and temporal, I would attack premise 1 directly.

The punishment of hell is proportionate since the punishment is the crime it self (Peter Kreeft, Handbook of Apologetics). The reason why many people have problems with hell is due to misunderstanding the graveness of sin. Sin is denying God. There is nothing temporal about it. The only way to make amends is to ask for forgiveness and correct one self. If not, the person would have denied God and thus will get the opportunity to live his life in the absence of God i.e. Hell. So hell is the ***result ***of the choice one made and not an external punishment that is tacked on to the persons actions. Results can obviously be eternal though the corresponding actions might be temporal (Take killing a person for an example). Therefore, premise 1 cannot stand and similarly the argument.

(If you are interested in the attack against premise 2 & 3, I would refer you to the same book I referenced above.)

Hope that helps.

God Bless

 

[hatsoff]

I don’t see how GOD is responsible for OUR suffering at all.

God is omnipotent and omniscient. He knows what’s best for us, and he has the power to give it to us, regardless of whether or not we choose to accept it. And if we are downright unable to be cared for in this way, then God is responsible for that, too, as creator.

 

[Coleski]

Heaven are ultimate destinations. There is a phrase used in the Bible, especially in the New Testament, that is to loose or bind as in Peter is given the authority to loose or bind the judged to Heaven or Hell. One way to look at is that Jesus saved his most harsh invective for the Pharisees; the pious prigs of His time. Jesus was sympathetic to sinners who repented. Those filled with pride and a surly unwillingness to repent headed for eternal damnation. We struggle with our loosing or binding. The Greeks looked at the Apollonian and Dionysian spirits as opposites. It seems the in control Apollonian and the wild and free Dionysian’s were proud in their sin, refusing to repent. What are these spirits? Well if you want to play rock and roll guitar loose and free a few drinks seem to loosen you up and play better. But try to do a complex math problem drunk or drive a car for that matter. We’ve all faced those persons filled with pride who are unreachable; they could be a totally in control CEO or a drunken rock star. They could both end up in Hell if their pride makes them unreachable to other humans and even to God. God has given us freewill. This is a terrible gift for though we have a beginning we have no end and our will determines our ultimate destiny.

 

[Coleski]

I have amended my previous post, to read further.

Heaven and Hell are ultimate destinations. There is a phrase used in the Bible, especially in the New Testament, that is to loose or bind, as in Peter being given the authority to loose or bind the judged to Heaven or Hell. One way to look at is that Jesus saved his most harsh invective for the Pharisees; the pious prigs of His time. Jesus was sympathetic to sinners who repented. Those filled with pride and a surly unwillingness to repent are headed towards eternal damnation. We struggle with our loosing or binding. The Greeks looked at the Apollonian and Dionysian spirits as opposites. It seems the in control Apollonian and the wild and free Dionysian’s were proud in their sin, refusing to repent. What are these spirits? Well if you want to play rock and roll guitar loose and free a few drinks seem to loosen you up and play better. This struggle is very well portrayed in the movie about Johnny Cash, Walk the line. In fact that song is about that struggle. I especially recall the scene were Johnny Cash and his band mates are rehearsing and drinking tons of beer. One of Johnny’s last songs, God will cut you down says it all. June Carter stepped in to put an end to the session. This is why man needs woman and visa versa to balance each other.

The Apollonian and Dionysian ways need to be moderated, try to do a complex math problem drunk or drive a car for that matter. The opposite would be the so in control philosopher/scientist who is all logic and no heart. Nietzsche chose the Dionysian way and hated the in control humanist Christians of his time, liberal to the core. We’ve all faced those persons filled with pride who are unreachable; they could be a totally in control CEO or a drunken rock star. They could both end up in Hell if their pride makes them unreachable to other humans and even to God. God has given us freewill. This is a terrible gift for though we have a beginning we have no end and our will determines our ultimate destiny. The Catholic concept of purgatory gives those of us who partially give in to the will of God some room after we die. But as Jesus said on the cross not my will be done but thine will be done to His Father. Humans who use human reasoning for God tread dangerous ground. This is what Eve desired in wanting to know good and evil. Satanists as one foolish poster here is thinking of taking up want it both ways to do both good and evil as little gods.

 

[ddarko]

God is omnipotent and omniscient. He knows what’s best for us, and he has the power to give it to us, regardless of whether or not we choose to accept it. And if we are downright unable to be cared for in this way, then God is responsible for that, too, as creator.

You are forgetting free will my friend. If in every possible universe the person would freely choose sin, God cannot create a universe in which that person doesn’t sin. To do so would have to violate free will. In another sense, it would also be logically contradictory. Both of which are not according to God’s nature to do.

So God is NOT responsible unless you make a theological error and deny free will like Calvinist or have a bizarre view of omnipotence as being able to do logically contradictory things .

God Bless

 

[Desertsailor]

Hey, I am writing a paper on the the problem of hell and wold like to hear your opinions/ answers on this “problem”, (anihilationism): We are finite beings and therefore can only sin a finite amount. So our temporal sins can only warrant a temporal punishment. Therefore, If God is all just, then hell cannot be eternal. This annihilationist view is held by Seventh day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses. It must be admitted that this is, at least at first glance, a powerful argument. God could damn people for aeons and aeons and then annihilate them instead of damning them for eternity.

• Thanks in advance!

We are not finite beings. Our bodies die and our souls live on. At the resurrection our bodies live once again.
Sin is not like breaking traffic laws. When a man breaks a man made law he pays a finite penalty. When a person decides to break his connection with God it’s broken and stays broken until he reconnects through the sacrament of reconciliation.
Hell is eternal because that’s the way the people and fallen angels want it. They wouldn’t leave Hell if they could.
Pay no attention to what SDA and JW say. They are thinking like spoiled children and can’t accept the truth.
Finally God doesn’t damn anyone. They damn themselves and are very happy to be in Hell.

 

[lemondiesel]

Okay so even to begin this discussion, we must agree that there even is eternity outside of time and space. To stay with the discussion of this thread, we will agree that there is

If God does send one to hell for eternity, then he must assume that someone in hell would finally repent for the sins they committed to get there. Is God only just in this physical world and once we are outside of it, he no longer “cares” for us? Remember, God created hell, in order for us to have free will, so God can easily end it as well.

This is why the concept of Hell fits so much better with this physical world. God could end this universe at any point, allowing us to finally achieve his eternal bliss, the “oneness” of God. In order to even achieve this, one must live through hell. (struggles and sins)

In short, Hell is not eternal, because if we agree God is the creator of all, then he could literally wait for people to repent for their sins in hell. (You would think everyone who goes to hell would repent, because it is a place without God, the worst possible place that is unfathomable spell check)

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Okay so even to begin this discussion, we must agree that there even is eternity outside of time and space. To stay with the discussion of this thread, we will agree that there is

If God does send one to hell for eternity, then he must assume that someone in hell would finally repent for the sins they committed to get there. Is God only just in this physical world and once we are outside of it, he no longer “cares” for us? Remember, God created hell, in order for us to have free will, so God can easily end it as well.

This is why the concept of Hell fits so much better with this physical world. God could end this universe at any point, allowing us to finally achieve his eternal bliss, the “oneness” of God. In order to even achieve this, one must live through hell. (struggles and sins)

In short, Hell is not eternal, because if we agree God is the creator of all, then he could literally wait for people to repent for their sins in hell. (You would think everyone who goes to hell would repent, because it is a place without God, the worst possible place that is unfathomable spell check)

Why do you get the idea that infinity is ‘time based’ with an ‘eventually they will repent’ premise?

Infinity is outside of time. There will be no ‘passage of time’ wherein one could repent. It will be a ‘now’ that will be both ‘forever’ and ‘instantaneous’.

And I repeat, it is not God ‘sending us’. We send ourselves. Freely. No being ‘caught’ and hurled into hell while we scream our repentence.

Hell IS eternal and sin (which is separation from God) is eternal and its consequences are eternal.

What makes you think that those in hell have ‘stopped’ sinning? What makes you think that they COULD stop sinning? What makes you think that it is ‘just’ for God to either forcibly ‘stop’ the individual’s choice and replace it with ‘good thoughts’, or to ‘let’ the person in even though the person doesn’t want heaven?

 

[lemondiesel]

Why do you get the idea that infinity is ‘time based’ with an ‘eventually they will repent’ premise?

Infinity is outside of time. There will be no ‘passage of time’ wherein one could repent. It will be a ‘now’ that will be both ‘forever’ and ‘instantaneous’.

And I repeat, it is not God ‘sending us’. We send ourselves. Freely. No being ‘caught’ and hurled into hell while we scream our repentence.

Hell IS eternal and sin (which is separation from God) is eternal and its consequences are eternal.

What makes you think that those in hell have ‘stopped’ sinning? What makes you think that they COULD stop sinning? What makes you think that it is ‘just’ for God to either forcibly ‘stop’ the individual’s choice and replace it with ‘good thoughts’, or to ‘let’ the person in even though the person doesn’t want heaven?

Because I view infinity as time, that once started it could continue forever, we have no idea when it could stop or even if it will stop. All “time” is, is Now. The past is a collection of nows, the present is now, and the future is future Nows.

Now you are describing a different kind of hell. Have you ever heard of the young boys who had dreams of hell? They were holding boulders for eternity on their backs, but that already suggests that hell could be time based. (Those boys became saints following their deaths)

God sends us to hell just by creating it. It is IMPOSSIBLE for every human to live in the way of Christ, because we are animals, run by dominace

So what is hell? Just infinite without ever knowing God again? This physical reality is just a middle ground to separate the sinners from the righteous? Why would God create certain men knowing they would go to hell? Why would he damn their souls to eternal hell? He already knows they won’t change, because he knows all. Seems like he damns people just by creating them.

I believe in a Heaven/Hell on Earth. A Kingdom of heaven, ruled by “Gods” moral laws. If I believed in your personal, traditional God, I would question every judgment he makes. I have a very poor view for the Abrahamic God, because like I said, why create individuals already knowing they will be eternally damned to the depths of Hell? WHY would you put individuals through that!!! I mean it is amazing to exist, but if I knew I was going to hell, I would pick never existing, rather than your concept of Hell.

That is not just of God to create individuals, already knowing they will go to hell, and not giving them the choice to change. Maybe if they experienced your concept of hell, they would change, but they can’t and they must wait until “judgment” day to be sent to a place already waiting for them.

Edit: So does God create everyone as sinners, already knowing which ones will find him?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Because I view infinity as time, that once started it could continue forever, we have no idea when it could stop or even if it will stop. All “time” is, is Now. The past is a collection of nows, the present is now, and the future is future Nows.

Now you are describing a different kind of hell. Have you ever heard of the young boys who had dreams of hell? They were holding boulders for eternity on their backs, but that already suggests that hell could be time based. (Those boys became saints following their deaths)

God sends us to hell just by creating it. It is IMPOSSIBLE for every human to live in the way of Christ, because we are animals, run by dominace

So what is hell? Just infinite without ever knowing God again? This physical reality is just a middle ground to separate the sinners from the righteous? Why would God create certain men knowing they would go to hell? Why would he damn their souls to eternal hell? He already knows they won’t change, because he knows all. Seems like he damns people just by creating them.

I believe in a Heaven/Hell on Earth. A Kingdom of heaven, ruled by “Gods” moral laws. If I believed in your personal, traditional God, I would question every judgment he makes. I have a very poor view for the Abrahamic God, because like I said, why create individuals already knowing they will be eternally damned to the depths of Hell? WHY would you put individuals through that!!! I mean it is amazing to exist, but if I knew I was going to hell, I would pick never existing, rather than your concept of Hell.

That is not just of God to create individuals, already knowing they will go to hell, and not giving them the choice to change. Maybe if they experienced your concept of hell, they would change, but they can’t and they must wait until “judgment” day to be sent to a place already waiting for them.

Edit: So does God create everyone as sinners, already knowing which ones will find him?

Catholics don’t believe in ‘double predestination’. While it could be said that each individual has ‘determined’ his or her destination, we do not believe that it is a 'time event set in stone where one could say, “Solomon Grundy, born on Monday, married on Tuesday, etc. to 'denied God forever on Sunday and that’s the end of Solomon Grundy”.

God does not ‘know ahead of time’ in the sense that God specifically creates an individual and ‘knows’ that they will reject Him but hey, He’s gonna do it anyway. That’s a Calvinist concept of God.

Rather, God creates people and gives them constant ‘choices’ throughout their lives. At literally a million ‘points’ in life, a person could choose eternal bliss rather than eternal damnation. And that person never ‘unknowingly’ or ‘unwittingly’ chooses hell.

You seem to have an erroneous belief that God is ‘unfair’ or ‘unkind’.

Please tell me how any person ‘deserves’ to have eternal bliss. I mean, really. But if they choose it, God gives it to them.

So why is it all right for them, but all WRONG if they choose eternal hell? And, interestingly, whereas nobody DESERVES eternal bliss, we all DO deserve eternal hell for our sins. In a way, those who choose it are choosing what they DESERVE, even though God, out of His supreme goodness, is willing to give us, instead of what we DESERVE, the eternal joy we do not deserve but which is ours IF WE ASK IT.

 

[Betterave]

Hi, I’m a seventeen y/o from arborfield, england. I have thought about the same thing. I was raised a catholic, although now I am not so sure I am one, I am considering several other religions incuding atheism, satanism, and even Judaism. I think that if God is real, he was very cruel for kicking Satan into the worst place imaginable, nobody would enjoy tat because it isn’t supposed to be enjoyed. I kind of feel sorry for him getting punished like that just for not following God, that isn’t democracy, he should have gotten a say in who was his leader. Hell is a problematic concept for all of us, and it was one of the reasons I will probably leave Christianity soon:

lol…you’re right about one thing: that’s not democracy! But what’s so great about democracy?

 

[Betterave]

Hey, I am writing a paper on the the problem of hell and wold like to hear your opinions/ answers on this “problem”, (anihilationism): We are finite beings and therefore can only sin a finite amount. So our temporal sins can only warrant a temporal punishment. Therefore, If God is all just, then hell cannot be eternal. This annihilationist view is held by Seventh day Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses. It must be admitted that this is, at least at first glance, a powerful argument. God could damn people for aeons and aeons and then annihilate them instead of damning them for eternity.

• Thanks in advance!

Corollary: “If it took me 10 seconds to kill your loved one (a ten-second temporal sin), I should only be punished for 10 seconds (a ten-second temporal punishment)”?

Many variations on this general kind of principle are possible. What do you think?

Also, do you know: how do JW’s and SDA’s view punishment as serving justice? (What is ‘justice’?) Is punishment atoning? (Apparently not, otherwise why annihilation?) Is it pure revenge?? Is there a point to being tortured for a finite time prior to annihilation? What could that be?

 

[hatsoff]

You are forgetting free will my friend. If in every possible universe the person would freely choose sin, God cannot create a universe in which that person doesn’t sin. To do so would have to violate free will. In another sense, it would also be logically contradictory. Both of which are not according to God’s nature to do.

So God is NOT responsible unless you make a theological error and deny free will like Calvinist or have a bizarre view of omnipotence as being able to do logically contradictory things .

God Bless

I’m not suggesting that nobody sins, but rather that God could make sure to give us what’s best for us, regardless of what we ask of him. That is God’s choice, and God is responsible for it. He’s also responsible as creator for whatever suffering goes on in this world. So, maybe you want to say that this is the best “possible” universe, which is better than no universe at all, so that we should be pleased with God’s decision to create what he did. But God is still responsible.

 

[JohnDamian]

I’m not suggesting that nobody sins, but rather that God could make sure to give us what’s best for us, regardless of what we ask of him. That is God’s choice, and God is responsible for it. He’s also responsible as creator for whatever suffering goes on in this world. So, maybe you want to say that this is the best “possible” universe, which is better than no universe at all, so that we should be pleased with God’s decision to create what he did. But God is still responsible.

To say God is responsible for all suffering (whatever suffering) is a complete denial of any self responsibility and is experientially absurd for any religious or irreligious person.

 

[Betterave]

To say God is responsible for all suffering (whatever suffering) is a complete denial of any self responsibility and is experientially absurd for any religious or irreligious person.

Not quite. God *is *responsible for all suffering, hatsoff is right about that. And Hatsoff clearly did not say that God *alone *is responsible for all suffering, which thesis would be required for the “complete denial” you speak of above.

hatsoff, regarding the “best possible” universe, the real question is whether such an idea is even intelligible. In any case, all we need is “good universe” - according to revelation, God looked at what he created and saw that it was good, not that it was the “best possible” (and also not that is was not the “best possible” - in any case, why go there?).