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Shin
Guest
Since scripture says it, and it’s dogma scripture is inerrant. . .Please, can someone answer this: Is it dogma of the Catholic church that there is fire in hell?
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Betterave
Guest
We believe that Hell is final, it is a place/state one enters after having already died and it is a permanent kind of second death. Those in Hell are confirmed in their rebellion and no longer have any possibility of wishing to repent and serve God, just as those in Heaven are confirmed in their love and no longer have any possibility of wishing to rebel against God.
What do you base any of these claims upon?
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fhansen
Guest
Yes,* just*, as in ordered, right, correct. Nothing god creates is unjust –or wrong-in its essence. Beings with free will can change that, to the degree their allowed, losing their original justice.
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slywakka250
Guest
What about those who never get got to make a choice?
Can someone explain why I should not be terribly jealous of those who died before the age of reason, but were baptized?
These have received a precious gift, simply by being born into a Catholic family, and are not exposed to the responsibility of the right use of reason.
I dare say, much of my concern and objections here in this thread are born out of the awareness that I am a very selfish person, in the Christian sense. I fail to see a distinction between good and evil, and I don’t really believe in individual moral responsibility. I find myself unable to judge any action as evil. I find myself unable to condemn murderers or other serious criminals. I believe that their crimes are unfortunate, from a perspective of a social relativism morality, but in another time or place, with a different social context what is seen as a crime now could be seen as acceptable.
Why do I believe in such an illogical morality, when it is obvious that there is objective good and evil, and right and wrong???
it is because I refuse to believe that I may somehow fulfill the purpose of my existence “better” than somebody else. I’m very bothered by the idea that I might have a better fate (objectively) then somebody else, even if we each freely choose what we want.
what is it about me or someone else, which makes one person choose evil and another good? what creates this variation in the exercise of free will??
Basically, I think that all people are precious and worthy of love, no matter how evil they are. If one’s evil actions causes one to be separated from his family, analogous to how our mortal sin separates us from God, could we really say that this person who has separated himself by his free choice, doesn’t deep in his heart, wish that he might have made a difference choice, wish that things might have been different. I think even the most evil person would have a regret at some point. And even if they don’t, they will sense somehow that they were made for more, and to come to any sort of realization like this (even its only after death), contradicts the idea that you choose hell yourself.
hell should only be for those who forever have no regret of their choices, who refuse to even wish that things were different, that they had done things differently; I can’t imagine any one who would have no regret whatsoever, especially once the flames are experienced.
And God won’t even let this person cease to exist, but instead must burn in hell forever.
What is up with that??
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Betterave
Guest
Because (given you are selfish
) such jealousy is not in your interest.We all receive precious gifts. You too, even your sincere concern over this hell-question, are a precious gift. Have you ever tried to look at it that way?
Another question: are you ever jealous of our Holy Mother, or of a saint like Jean de Brebeuf (painfully martyred at the hands of the Iroquois)? They received much greater gifts, we believe, than baptized infants who die before the age of reason. It seems like maybe you don’t really believe that. But why not?
It sounds like you really have reflected on this seriously. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’m always tempted to offer theoretical analysis as a response, that’s just the way I am, but for now let me just ask: I wonder, if you’ve ever read the book of Job, what do you think about Job?What is up with that??
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DavidKays
Guest
Hi Johnny! I hope you don’t mind but I believe you have some mix ups about the understanding of the concept of Hell. Hell is a state of being rather than a place. I do not know why but Catholics have awful misunderstandings about Hell and its existence. Remember that you are not in Hell but are in a state of Hell. This can happened before you die. Those who are in a state of Hell before they die and are still living on earth have the possibilty to repent. If they do not repent at all before they die they will continue this state of Hell after they have died and this is where God places them where we call the existence of Hell. But you must be in a state of Hell before you enter it when you have died. The reason why you can repent before you die is this. Your will which is part of your immortal soul can change anytime before you die. However after you die the immortal soul seperates from your body and therefore your will which is part of your soul becomes fixed. It cannot change after death. It is permamently fixed. Therefore anyone in a state of Hell after they have died will have the consequences of a permament fixed state because their will is now unchangeable so they cannot repent at all. The act of change or what we call repentance can only occur before you have died and while living on earth. Why. Because the will which is part of your soul is in a body. Because you are still in a body you have the opportunity to change your will and therefore repent. It is the body which enables you to have that possibility. However once the soul leaves the body as when you die the will is then permamently fixed. It is the way God designed and made us. After death if you are in a state of Hell then you become in the same way the state that the evil angels or evil spirits have. This state is permament after death and cannot change. The way God designed the Angels is this. Once they commit any sin just 1 sin then they enter that state of Hell forever. The Angels are given all the knowledge to know the difference and yet in that knowledge some sinned anyway and therefore were immediately punished. Not so with us. When we sin we have the opportunity to repent as long as we are in a body. After we die we are then resembling the Angels and whatever state we are in we become permamently fixed as they were when they were created and decided whether they be with God or not. Your state of being is what is important to you and therefore try to be in a state where you are in heaven or in a state of purgatory. Those in a state of heaven immediately go to heaven after they die and those in a state of purgatory go to a place of purgatory to finish their pugatory before they go to heaven. I hope this has helped. God Bless!
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slywakka250
Guest
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I do believe the Church teaches in the creed the “Resurrection of the Body!”
I believe this includes the bodies of the damned.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.
SO, following your logic, the damned will be able to repent once they are in hell because they will have a body.
There be some other explanation as to why they cannot repent, but it is not because they do not have a body, if my understanding of Tradition and Church teaching is correct.
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momor
Guest
I don’t believe the results of our particular judgment will change after the resurrection of the body. The Church believes the will is fixed at the time of death.
I have not heard it put into so many words before about being in a state of heaven, hell, or purgatory at death. But it makes a kind of sense. Catholics believe we can work out our purgatory here on earth. Being in such a repentant state at death would certainly be pleasing to God regardless of how much we have sinned.
I have not heard it put into so many words before about being in a state of heaven, hell, or purgatory at death. But it makes a kind of sense. Catholics believe we can work out our purgatory here on earth. Being in such a repentant state at death would certainly be pleasing to God regardless of how much we have sinned.
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slywakka250
Guest
Well, there’s lots I could say about Job, but I’m not sure how he is relevant to this topic. I must be missing something. What exactly made you mention Job??
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slywakka250
Guest
I would like to reflect on this question: Why is it that some people choose good and other people choose evil?
The fact that free will exists only necessitates the possibility that some men go to hell. The fact that free will exists does NOT neccesitate that some men actually go to hell. If anyone goes to hell, some further explanation beyound the mere existence of free will is necessary. It is not enough to say that the fact God gave us free will opened up the possibility of rejecting God, * *and therefore there will be some people who reject God ** For example, It certainly could have been the case that God only created beings with free will who he knew would choose Him, for God is omniciscient.
Now, It is often claimed that some people choose hell because they want to be their own God, they are self-serving, lovers of pleasure, greedy, lustful, malicious, etc. While on the other hand, other people choose heaven because they want to submit to God, they are lovers of what is good and true, pure, holy, and live their lvies in accordance with the truth, etc.
But all this ammounts to is that some people choose good because they prefer good, while other people choose evil because they prefer evil.
This is a tautology, for to prefer something is merely to will it, to make a choice of one thing over another.
So people choose heaven because they choose heaven, and people choose hell because they choose hell.
This does not provide any light on the question as to why some choose good and others evil.
What I am getting at, and I will consider the state of affairs taking mankind as a whole, there must be some other factor in addition to individual’s free will, which determines the final ratio of the people in heaven vs hell.
This “other factor” could be called many things. It could be called: randomness,the “risk of existence”, predestination, the logic of salvation,“God’s plan” , the nature of God and the universe, or “just the way things are”.
We can’t really know precisely how this hidden factor operates but we know it is there, exerting a real influence on the final ratio.
Pehaps this will be easier to think about if I use real numbers.
Suppose it turns out that 80% of people go to heaven, while the other 20% of people go to hell. My question is, why these numbers? could it not just as easily been the other way arround say 20% of people in heaven versus 80% in hell?
What exactly is it that determines what the percentages will be? Surely God did not leave it up to chance!? If he did leave it to chance, this would have to allow that possibility that maybe No one would choose heaven, which is absurd.
The problem is that he must apply this factor which goes over and above our free will. Though are free will may still be fully active, the game is fixed!! A certain number will make it to heaven and a certain number won’t, its the way things are! and that won’t change!
Furthermore, we have no knowledge as to what this ratio might be. For all we know the odds of heaven could be abysmally low, as some of the early Church fathers and saints have opined.(Hopefully they are wrong, but we really can’t know for sure)
How does it not make perfect sense to say that the game is fixed in this sense I have just described? and how can a loving God fix the game as God apparently has done? How can this at all be considered just? The fact that each person freely chooses Does not change the fact that only a certain number will be saved, and nothing could be done to prevent this disaster, that is why the game is fixed, and you have to hope you beat the odds and are among those who are saved
The fact that free will exists only necessitates the possibility that some men go to hell. The fact that free will exists does NOT neccesitate that some men actually go to hell. If anyone goes to hell, some further explanation beyound the mere existence of free will is necessary. It is not enough to say that the fact God gave us free will opened up the possibility of rejecting God, * *and therefore there will be some people who reject God ** For example, It certainly could have been the case that God only created beings with free will who he knew would choose Him, for God is omniciscient.
Now, It is often claimed that some people choose hell because they want to be their own God, they are self-serving, lovers of pleasure, greedy, lustful, malicious, etc. While on the other hand, other people choose heaven because they want to submit to God, they are lovers of what is good and true, pure, holy, and live their lvies in accordance with the truth, etc.
But all this ammounts to is that some people choose good because they prefer good, while other people choose evil because they prefer evil.
This is a tautology, for to prefer something is merely to will it, to make a choice of one thing over another.
So people choose heaven because they choose heaven, and people choose hell because they choose hell.
This does not provide any light on the question as to why some choose good and others evil.
What I am getting at, and I will consider the state of affairs taking mankind as a whole, there must be some other factor in addition to individual’s free will, which determines the final ratio of the people in heaven vs hell.
This “other factor” could be called many things. It could be called: randomness,the “risk of existence”, predestination, the logic of salvation,“God’s plan” , the nature of God and the universe, or “just the way things are”.
We can’t really know precisely how this hidden factor operates but we know it is there, exerting a real influence on the final ratio.
Pehaps this will be easier to think about if I use real numbers.
Suppose it turns out that 80% of people go to heaven, while the other 20% of people go to hell. My question is, why these numbers? could it not just as easily been the other way arround say 20% of people in heaven versus 80% in hell?
What exactly is it that determines what the percentages will be? Surely God did not leave it up to chance!? If he did leave it to chance, this would have to allow that possibility that maybe No one would choose heaven, which is absurd.
The problem is that he must apply this factor which goes over and above our free will. Though are free will may still be fully active, the game is fixed!! A certain number will make it to heaven and a certain number won’t, its the way things are! and that won’t change!
Furthermore, we have no knowledge as to what this ratio might be. For all we know the odds of heaven could be abysmally low, as some of the early Church fathers and saints have opined.(Hopefully they are wrong, but we really can’t know for sure)
How does it not make perfect sense to say that the game is fixed in this sense I have just described? and how can a loving God fix the game as God apparently has done? How can this at all be considered just? The fact that each person freely chooses Does not change the fact that only a certain number will be saved, and nothing could be done to prevent this disaster, that is why the game is fixed, and you have to hope you beat the odds and are among those who are saved
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fhansen
Guest
The problem with this is that we end up diluting or actually eliminating moral responsibility. There’s always a condition which mitigates responsibility for our actions. But in reality, we generally have time here on earth to ponder our lives and the way we treat others, and to change, if necessary.
As Catholics we believe that those who’re given much are expected to do more, and by the same token, there are those who’re less culpable for transgressions due to their upbringing, or due to a short life-span, etc. Either way, we believe God gives everyone a fair shake. But you simply cannot remove our individual moral responsibility from the mix.
IMO, this world, with our individual experiences in it, is tailored to teach us of our need for God, and maybe more to the point, to give us the opportunity to know and live amidst good and evil, and to ultimately choose good.
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tonyrey
Guest
No further explanation beyond the existence of free will is necessary if it is understood that free will is spiritual energy. There is no need to look for a further cause because when a choice is made the cause is a person! That is why in a court of law we are held solely responsible for our behaviour in normal circumstances. The buck stops with us.
For example, we can choose to be reasonable or unreasonable. It does not always make sense to ask **why **we choose one of these alternatives because we “make up our minds” for ourselves. We can decide to disregard very good reasons for doing something and even we may not know why. We cannot understand **how **we do this but we know we are not biological machines and we have this unique power to control our thoughts and actions whereas animals act according to instinct and conditioning.
Omniscience does not apply to that which is intrinsically unknowable! As far as we are concerned free will is a mystery which may well entail unknowable choices. It is clearly a supernatural power because it transcends physical causality. If you don’t understand the nature of free will how do you know free choices are predictable?
We can give reasons why people have preferences but sometimes they make choices they would prefer not to make! They decide to do something unpleasant because they believe it is the right thing to do…
To prefer something is not necessarily to will it! Our preferences are often determined by many factors over which we have no control.
You are dead right! The reason is that a person is a spiritual entity **beyond the scope of scientific explanation **- which is not surprising if you believe we are made in the image of God. Free will is a form of creativity…
The flaw in your argument is that you regard persons as natural objects rather than spiritual beings to which considerations of quantity and ratio do not apply. Your whole viewpoint is materialistic and irrelevant to the destiny of rational, responsible beings who shape their own destiny…
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
johnny
We should (and do) have the right to tell God we dont accept his gift…and that is it.
Agreed. God also agrees that you have the right, though you also have the responsibility to accept the consequences of selecting that right.
This idea that if you dont accept it on God’s terms, you will be forced to some terrible existence is ridiculous and counters everything God is about.
Imagine that human laws operated along the same line? You commit a heinous crime, and you are sentenced to life in prison. When you get to prison you whine about the law not being fair because lifetime in prison is not what the law should be about.
I’m sorry, but a lifetime in prison is what the law is about. You knew that going into the crime. It is the same with heinous sins and the punishment we deserve for them. We knew going in it was for eternity.
Why then do we suddenly pretend that the rules of the game should be changed so that we can sin and avoid the consequences? God only can make the rules. The rationale of the rule for eternity is twofold: to encourage us to virtue, and to dissuade us from vice. Of course, some people refuse to get it. It’s not that they don’t get it. It’s that they set their will against the will of God. They intend to live their lives on their terms, not God’s.
And they can spend their eternities in hell consoling themselves with one really brilliant thought:
“I almost got away with it!”
We should (and do) have the right to tell God we dont accept his gift…and that is it.
Agreed. God also agrees that you have the right, though you also have the responsibility to accept the consequences of selecting that right.
This idea that if you dont accept it on God’s terms, you will be forced to some terrible existence is ridiculous and counters everything God is about.
Imagine that human laws operated along the same line? You commit a heinous crime, and you are sentenced to life in prison. When you get to prison you whine about the law not being fair because lifetime in prison is not what the law should be about.
I’m sorry, but a lifetime in prison is what the law is about. You knew that going into the crime. It is the same with heinous sins and the punishment we deserve for them. We knew going in it was for eternity.
Why then do we suddenly pretend that the rules of the game should be changed so that we can sin and avoid the consequences? God only can make the rules. The rationale of the rule for eternity is twofold: to encourage us to virtue, and to dissuade us from vice. Of course, some people refuse to get it. It’s not that they don’t get it. It’s that they set their will against the will of God. They intend to live their lives on their terms, not God’s.
And they can spend their eternities in hell consoling themselves with one really brilliant thought:
“I almost got away with it!”
J
johnnyprc
Guest
Betterave:
My basis for this belief is the bible itself. Rom. 6:7, 23.
The bigger issue is the misrepresentation of what Hell is, and what the bible says about it. The fact that the bible on several accounts talks about EVERYONE who has died went to Hell, means that the church is not teaching the correct viewpoint on Hell (or better Greek word – Hades). Just like Hades, everyone goes there. Rev 20:13,14 – Acts 2:25-27 and many others.
So you all say that once someone goes to Hell they cannot leave – yet there are several scriptures that say absolutely opposite.
My basis for this belief is the bible itself. Rom. 6:7, 23.
The bigger issue is the misrepresentation of what Hell is, and what the bible says about it. The fact that the bible on several accounts talks about EVERYONE who has died went to Hell, means that the church is not teaching the correct viewpoint on Hell (or better Greek word – Hades). Just like Hades, everyone goes there. Rev 20:13,14 – Acts 2:25-27 and many others.
So you all say that once someone goes to Hell they cannot leave – yet there are several scriptures that say absolutely opposite.
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Betterave
Guest
"The gift of life is just that - a gift from God. If we decide we dont want it, we don’t have to take it (free will). If we cannot die, but are condemned forever to live being punished - that is cruel and unusual punishment. Its like burying someone alive, but they cant die.
We should (and do) have the right to tell God we dont accept his gift…and that is it. This idea that if you dont accept it on God’s terms, you will be forced to some terrible existence is ridiculous and counters everything God is about. "
Rom 6: 7-23: 7 For he that is dead is justified from sin. 8 Now, if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall live also together with Christ. 9 Knowing that Christ, rising again from the dead, dies now no more. Death shall no more have dominion over him. 10 For in that he died to sin, he died once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God. 11 So do you also reckon that you are dead to sin, but alive unto God, in Christ Jesus our Lord.12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, so as to obey the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield your members as instruments of iniquity unto sin: but present yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead; and your members as instruments of justice unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid! 16 Know you not that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are whom you obey, whether it be of sin unto death or of obedience unto justice. 17 But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin but have obeyed from the heart unto that form of doctrine into which you have been delivered. 18 Being then freed from sin, we have been made servants of justice. 19 I speak an human thing, because of the infirmity of your flesh. For as you have yielded your members to serve uncleanness and iniquity, unto iniquity: so now yield your members to serve justice, unto sanctification. 20 For when you were the servants of sin, you were free men to justice. 21 What fruit therefore had you then in those things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of them is death. 22 But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end life everlasting. 23 For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You appear to have a very creative reading of the passage (or just the two verses) in question - can you explain how you interpret it to say what you think it says?
Acts 2: 25-27 also appears to not at all support your view. Go ahead and explain that as well if you like. In any case, please actually tell us what the passages you refer to say and how you understand them next time. As it is your claims sound possibly interesting, then, when one looks up the verses in question, appear to be totally baseless.
We should (and do) have the right to tell God we dont accept his gift…and that is it. This idea that if you dont accept it on God’s terms, you will be forced to some terrible existence is ridiculous and counters everything God is about. "
Say what, Johnny??..
Rom 6: 7-23: 7 For he that is dead is justified from sin. 8 Now, if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall live also together with Christ. 9 Knowing that Christ, rising again from the dead, dies now no more. Death shall no more have dominion over him. 10 For in that he died to sin, he died once: but in that he lives, he lives unto God. 11 So do you also reckon that you are dead to sin, but alive unto God, in Christ Jesus our Lord.12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, so as to obey the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield your members as instruments of iniquity unto sin: but present yourselves to God, as those that are alive from the dead; and your members as instruments of justice unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid! 16 Know you not that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are whom you obey, whether it be of sin unto death or of obedience unto justice. 17 But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin but have obeyed from the heart unto that form of doctrine into which you have been delivered. 18 Being then freed from sin, we have been made servants of justice. 19 I speak an human thing, because of the infirmity of your flesh. For as you have yielded your members to serve uncleanness and iniquity, unto iniquity: so now yield your members to serve justice, unto sanctification. 20 For when you were the servants of sin, you were free men to justice. 21 What fruit therefore had you then in those things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of them is death. 22 But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, you have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end life everlasting. 23 For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You appear to have a very creative reading of the passage (or just the two verses) in question - can you explain how you interpret it to say what you think it says?
Perhaps you’re confusing Hades and Gehenna? Anyway, please read Rev. 20:15 as well as 13 and 14. 14 refers to the second death and 15 appears to directly contradict what you claim here. Care to explain your apparently ‘creative’ reading again?
Acts 2: 25-27 also appears to not at all support your view. Go ahead and explain that as well if you like. In any case, please actually tell us what the passages you refer to say and how you understand them next time. As it is your claims sound possibly interesting, then, when one looks up the verses in question, appear to be totally baseless.
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Betterave
Guest
Another interesting post, but I think you keep committing the same errors. The game is not about the final ratio. It is about each person choosing. If the game is about the final numbers, that is God’s affair, not any particular individual’s. You claim individuals have to hope to beat the odds, but that is not correct. The odds cannot be beaten, they are a brute fact about the final numbers and they don’t work as some kind of dice rolled for each individual. What must be beaten is sin, and sin is not beaten by means of some kind of roll of the loaded dice. It is beaten by the acceptance of grace, trust in God, use of the sacraments, application of the will. The fact that in the end there will be a certain number saved and a certain number damned does not change this. This final fact is simply unavoidable, it is necessary that there be such a fact - **and what is necessary cannot, as such, be unjust. It is a mystery to us what the final numbers will be and why they should be whatever they will be, but that should be no obstacle to our accepting that it simply is necessary that there be a final number, and it only makes sense to trust that God is not making a mistake in determining this final number to be whatever it is.
The reason I brought up Job is that he has always impressed me: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away; blessed be the Lord.” Also, he ought to be fascinating to you: he, like you, cursed the day of his birth. His friends suggest to him that he is being punished: he refuses to enter into their rationalizations. But Job trusts in God, knowing that he doesn’t understand everything. And we learn from reading Job that God allows us to be tested, and chooses to bless us when we pass tests.
But why, you still ask?
Here’s some speculation: Perhaps God wants to have reason to admire the creatures he loves. He could have just made a bunch of cute puppies and kittens. His creation of creatures “in his image,” however, is obviously a different matter. Can’t you see that this is perhaps worthwhile, that this creates the possibility of a higher, nobler sharing of love? Look at Jesus. He chose to undergo tests like Job. We believe that looking at our Lord is supposed to reveal the Father (the Divine Nature). Jesus didn’t have to do anything to prove himself. He was God. He chose to. Man, created in the image of the creator, has a natural impulse to create himself, to overcome challenges. God chose to test even Himself. (This is a great mystery.) Other animals merely survive and perpetuate themselves naturally. Man actually exercises his will and intellect. This is what makes him who he is. Challenges require adversity and gives justice a life, a field of operation where reward and punishment make sense. Maybe you don’t like this, maybe you don’t like justice, but… what to say? …too bad?
D
DavidKays
Guest
It is funny and strange how people interpret what other people are saying. I don’t mind your question. It is good that you are trying to understand and I do follow your question. At death there is a judgement. This judgement will determine your future whether it is heaven, or whether it is heaven via purgatory or hell. The judgement occurs while your soul is in your body. You may have a chance to escape hell judgement at that moment. Onced judged then your eternity begins in heaven, purgatory or hell. When you are referring to the resurrection then this occurs at the Second Coming. Your body is resurrected. OK. But that is all. Your eternal destination has been determined at death. There is no chance of repentance because the will has been permamently fixed after death. Getting a new body does not give you another chance. If it did then we have to go through the same process all over again so God ain’t going to do that. I apologize for not explaining more. I assume that people know about the judgement. When I said you need a body I meant the one you have now. I never refered to the resurrected body at all. If I did I would have told you so. Please when reading posts understand that I assume you know something. Logic has nothing to do with it. It is God who puts limitations to sin and it is God who determines judgement. Even though we can repent before we die we cannot afterwards. I am referring to those in mortal sins. Do you know why mortal sins leads you in a state of hell. It is very simple. When one commits a mortal sin you drive God out of you. He cannot remain in a person who has committed a mortal sin. Now think about it. You have driven out God so how are you going to receive Him back again. Think of King David who when he took Bathsheba put her husband to the front lines so that the enemies of Israel will kill him. So the King committed 2 mortal sins. He is now without God. But God who is rich in Mercy had Mercy on David and when He sent the Prophet Nathan to David to give him a parable David then heard these words " You are that Man David! " It was then that David realized his sins and exclaimed " I have sinned against the Lord! " And Nathan responded " The Lord has put away your sins ". Once you realize the gravity of your sins then the mortal sins loses its power. Then God will come and dwell in your soul again. We all need to know that our prayers for another can help God restore that person to Himself. I will like to offer this to my Catholic and Orthodox brethren and to our Protestant brethren that praying the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy can be the remedy for our times. Not only can it help someone to be restored to Grace but when you pray for another who may be in a state of hell, God will promise extraordinary Graces to help restore the one you are praying. I invite you to get to know the Divine Mercy message and to begin to pray the Chaplet and to pray it for others. Our prayers can help others and help them to repent and escape condemnation. God Bless!
C
Charlemagne_II
Guest
The problem of hell is a helluva problem!
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wwilligan
Guest
I believe that the answer to you question can be found in the book The “Human Soul and Its Relationshp to Other Spirits” by Dom Anscar Vonier. When a human person dies the soul is separated from the body and that person exists as a pure spirit until the final resurrestion at the end of time. The nature of such a pure spirit is that the will is fixed at death. Good reading.
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tonyrey
Guest
If the will were fixed we would be incapable of love…
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