The Problem of Original Sin and Concupiscence

[Vico]

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Strictly speaking there is a controversy over efficacious grace that was debated for years: Whence efficacy of grace is derived, that is, whether it is efficacious of itself, intrinsically, or extrinsically, meaning on account of our consent foreseen through mediate knowledge.

The Catholic Encyclopedia showed the three necessary beliefs to be in agreement with the dogma of the Catholic Church on the matter of predestination:

Owing to the infallible decisions laid down by the Church, every orthodox theory on predestination and reprobation must keep within the limits marked out by the following theses:

a) At least in the order of execution in time (in ordine executionis) the meritorious works of the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness;
b) hell cannot even in the order of intention (in ordine intentionis) have been positively decreed to the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
c) there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.

Pohle, J. (1911). Predestination. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

And note that we have free will with the ability to cooperate and to dissent.

Council of Trent, Session VI (Jan. 13, 1547):

Can. 3. If anyone shall say that without the anticipatory inspiration of the Holy Spirit and without His assistance man can believe, hope, and love or be repentant, as he ought, so that the grace of justification may be conferred upon him: let him be anathema.

Can. 4. If anyone shall say that man’s free will moved and aroused by God does not cooperate by assenting to God who rouses and calls, whereby it disposes and prepares itself to obtain the grace of justification, and that it cannot dissent, if it wishes, but that like something inanimate it does nothing at all and is merely in a passive state: let him be anathema.

Can. 5. If anyone shall say that after the sin of Adam man’s free will was lost and destroyed, or that it is a thing in name only, indeed a title without a reality, a fiction, moreover, brought into the Church by Satan: let him be anathema.

 

[ioannes_pius]

First, that would mean he is the third person, and second, it is not de Fide that John the Baptist was born without Original Sin. It is a pious belief. However, even if you hold to this pious belief, you must concede that he was conceived in Original Sin.

 

[neophyte]

How are you so sure that far fewer people would have chosen to offend God had they not been conceived in original sin?

I’m pretty sure that even if Adam hadn’t messed up, I would have.

 

[thistle]

First, that would mean he is the third person, and second, it is not de Fide that John the Baptist was born without Original Sin. It is a pious belief. However, even if you hold to this pious belief, you must concede that he was conceived in Original Sin.

I said he was born free from original sin. I did not say he was not conceived in original sin. Original sin was removed in his mother’s womb when he was filled with the Holy Spirit. Anyone who is filled with the Holy Spirit has no sin and so this is not so much a pious belief but rather a teaching ( I also did not say de Fide). Please read carefully what I said.
The four are Adam, Eve, John, and Mary.

 

[ioannes_pius]

If you read what I said upthread about Mary, you would know that it is inappropriate to include Mary in such a list, because the “fomes of sin” were bound up in her.

It is not a teaching of the Church that St. John the Baptist was born free of original sin. Sure, it can be concluded using pre-establishes teachings of the Church, but it is not a teaching of the Church itself.

Now, the question comes to mind; did St. John the Baptist commit any actual sin after his birth?

 

[rosejmj]

I have the exact same thoughts. I have no idea what to think of it. It was God’s choice to have us inherit original sin. Who says I would have been a sinners if I hadn’t been born with original sin? It’s not my fault I was born with concupiscence which makes it impossible to avoid all sin. And yet I still have to suffer on Earth and in purgatory because of sin

Death as a baby or young child seems like the best option to avoid most suffering on Earth and in purgatory or hell. So not fair

 

[Latin]

a) … the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness;
b) … the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
c) … there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.

I believe a) and c) are in line with Catholic Soteriology, I also believe b) is contradicts Catholic Soteriology.

It would makes no difference to the damned that his damnation decreed positively or negatively, his damnation would be certain with his blood in God’s hands for His discriminatory damnation.

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will

“God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.

Unless man is really free, he cannot be justly held responsible for his actions, any more than for the date of his birth or the colour of his eyes.
All alike are inexorably predetermined for him.”

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Do we have free will? Our answer in the light of Catholic Soteriology:

Without God’s Divine Providence, we not only don’t have free will but we don’t even exists.

In God we have free will because God provides our free wills for us with the providence of sufficient and efficacious graces and we every time infallibly and freely choose what God wills us to choose.

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The Father William Most Collection; St. Thomas on Actual Grace.

“There are two kinds of actual graces, sufficient and efficacious.
If God sends a sufficient grace, it gives the full and complete power to do something good; but it is infallibly certain we will not do good, but will sin.

If He sends an efficacious grace, it is infallibly sure we will do good.
Our sufficiency is from God. Phil 2:13: "It is God who works [produces] in you both the will and the doing."

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308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes: "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."171

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Why is the birth of b) then when God governs everything even provides our free wills and we always infallibly and freely choose what God wills us to choose?
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It is really simple, the teachings that God saves everyone is not new and more and more Catholic Priests and theologians teaching that at the end God saves every human person.
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The creators of b) had a choice, to make official that God saves everyone, or they fabricate b) by making God an unjust God and the damned the scapegoats.
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Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott,

Fallen man cannot redeem himself. (De fide.)

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will. (De fide.)

Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification. (De fide.)
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God bless

 

[Vico]

Vico:

a) … the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness;
b) … the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
c) … there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.

I believe a) and c) are in line with Catholic Soteriology, I also believe b) is contradicts Catholic Soteriology.

…
The creators of b) had a choice, to make official that God saves everyone, or they fabricate b) by making God an unjust God and the damned the scapegoats. …

There is no conflict between Catholic Encylopedia with the dogmas you just posted from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma. The statement in Catholic Encyclopedia that you think is incorrect (b) was approved as in agreement with Catholic dogma. It is not Catholic dogma that God saves every human that he creates, but rather that those that are saved do so through their free will cooperation with grace, and also those that finally and freely choose not to cooperate with the grace of God are not saved, and it is by their own responsibility. Double predestination is condemned.

In the section of C.E. Free WIll that you shared, is stating the issue that “Unless man is really free … All alike are inexorably predetermined for him.” The author goes on the explain the Catholic doctrine, including the dogma of faith from the Council of Trent, Session VI, Canon 4:

The will can resist grace if it chooses. It is not like a lifeless thing, which remains purely passive. Weakened and diminished by Adam’s fall, free will is yet not destroyed in the race.

Canon 4 from Trent:

Can. 4. If anyone shall say that man’s free will moved and aroused by God does not cooperate by assenting to God who rouses and calls, whereby it disposes and prepares itself to obtain the grace of justification, and that it cannot dissent, if it wishes, but that like something inanimate it does nothing at all and is merely in a passive state: let him be anathema.

Also from Council of Trent:

If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end, - unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema. (Sixth session, Canon XVI)

 

[Latin]

great gift of perseverance

Yes, the above God’s gift of special efficacious grace His great gift of perseverance is crucially important because NO ONE can be saved without it.

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St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:

[P]erseverance is called he abiding in good TO the end of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . needs the divine assistance guiding him and guarding him against the attacks of the passions . . . that he may be kept from evil TILL the end of his life (ST IIa:109:10) .
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This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation.
Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance," and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of "the gift of perseverance of which it is written:

‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’ Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4]."

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Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification. ( De fide. ) – No salvation without God’s special help, His Gift of Final Perseverance.

Fallen man cannot redeem himself. ( De fide. )

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THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION by John Salza
“He grants the efficacious grace of perseverance only to His elect.”

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Predestination of the elect

ante prævisa merita
“THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.”

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will
“Theologians and philosophers of the Jesuit School, frequently styled Molinists, though they do not accept the whole of Molina’s teaching and generally prefer Francisco Suárez’s exposition of the theory.”
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As we see above the Thomist and Molinist School on predestination practically in agreement. – By an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits God predestines and He gives them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.”

So, as we see above only those going to hell whom God doesn’t want to save.

As we can see above, Catholic dogmas and Catholic Soteriology demolished the agreement with (b).

God saves EVERYONE whom He wants to save, it is HIS DECISION, and He CAUSES us to cooperate and we all freely and infallibly cooperate.

CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”
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God bless

 

[Vico]

…
ante prævisa merita
…

So, as we see above only those going to hell whom God doesn’t want to save.

As we can see above, Catholic dogmas and Catholic Soteriology demolished the agreement with (b).
…

Once again, there is a dogma of universal salvation which must comply with in any theory. God wishes to save all, although he permissively allows free will so that grace can be rejected. The condemned alone is responsible for this self-condemning free will choice.

That statement is correct in the Catholic Encyclopedia. The Church does not adopt a particular theory of predestination such as Banezianism (Thomistic theory), Molinism of Molina, Molinism-Congruism, Syncretism-Augustinianism, Syncretism-Sorbonne hypothesis, etc., but does have the dogmas from the Councils to rely upon. You posted much on salvation but the issue b) is rather on reprobation:

b) hell cannot even in the order of intention ( in ordine intentionis ) have been positively decreed to the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
It is important point that the statement qualifies with in ordine intentionis and “positively decreed”.

See the description from New Catholic Encyclopedia (2003):

But the theological problem concerns the eternal order of intention. Does God first, antecedently to the foreseen death of some, absolutely intend to punish them and consequently will that they die in sin (antecedent positive or negative reprobation)?

• Supralapsarian (antelapsarian) Calvinists held that God always intended to punish some.
• Infralapsarian (sublapsarian, postlapsarian) Calvinists and Jansenists held that God did so after He foresaw men merely contracting original sin.
• Catholic theologians unanimously reject these doctrines as false, being in contradiction with God’s will to save all, even fallen men, prior to some foreseen condition.

There are two different orders: of eternal intention ( ordo intentionis ) and execution in time ( ordo executionis ). C.E. (in Predestination) discussed the post prævisa merita theory favored by St. Francis de Sales:

This hypothetical decree reads: Just as in time eternal happiness depends on merit as a condition, so I intended heaven from all eternity only for foreseen merit. – It is only by reason of the infallible foreknowledge of these merits that the hypothetical decree is changed into an absolute: These and no others shall be saved.

Pohle, J. (1911). Predestination. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

 

[DoughnutGuy]

Yes, thank you. At least I am not alone in pondering this problem.