The problem with Fatima

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The problem with Fatima? No…the problem with us! Too many Catholics have put up a barrier if you will, to blot out the very existence of hell.(see article below to see what Catholics I’m talking about) No all loving and merciful God could ever conceive of a place so horrible they say. And yet at Fatima, the unprecedented happens. Our Lady shows the very imagery of Hell that we’ve been told about for ages and ages…to children no less! I get the feeling that for many Catholics, the issue isn’t so much Our Lady’s appearance at Fatima per say, but her message. Namely, the third apparition.


They have some nerve including the word Catholic in their name!
 
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Re Hell:
I can only speak from my own experience. Some months back, when I had resumed my church-going and confession -going for quite some time, but had not yet ditched all of my bad habits, and really was thinking about it all in rosy terms, I happened to be up late and somehow Googled onto Padre Pio’s private revelations of Hell. This also reminded me of the Fatima children’s vision which I had read as a tween way back when. From there I decided to look up other private revelations of Hell and spent a couple hours in horror reading the visions of Don Bosco and other saints.

I got a lot more serious about faith after that, not even just for fear of myself going, but out of concern that one or more of several deceased loved ones might be in Purgatory or even Hell.

One should not shy away from the idea of Hell. It can inspire a lot of good. I believe Padre Pio said that you got one last chance at death time to choose God over Hell, so those who would not grab that last chance must be really far gone indeed.
 
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Hell has often been described as fire, so any scene showing hell as a lake of fire is consistent with the terminology which has been used.

Would I describe it that way? Well…

Until the resurrection of the body, the only thing in hell would be the soul. Fire affects bodies. If the body is not there, then there must be a reason for describing hell as fire, other than the literal. It is an oxymoron to say that fire (flames with heat) can impact the soul as fire is a physical thing and the soul is not.

So why do we find the concept of fire going back 3,000 or more years?

Being burned is an extremely painful matter. Come in contact with a hot stove, etc. and that issue will be well settled. And 3,000 years ago there were not a lot of effective means of treating the pain of a burn, let alone avoiding issues of infections and gangrene. It was, in short, a seriously nasty way to die.

Children are generally not well schooled in psychology at the age of the visionaries, and had Mary given a long treatise on the psychological pain of being cut off from the Beatific Vision, I suspect that not only would the children not be impacted (with/by) holy fear, but likely would not be able to reiterate what they had been told.

In short, it was consistent with images from both the Old and New Testament and was effective and age/education appropriate.

As to Lucia: a) we don’t have a tape recording of Mary’s actual words. it is entirely possible that Mary indicating a “long time” or a “very long time” or even said “Until the end of time”.

For starters, go back to my first paragraph; until the resurrection of the body… So what is time to a spirit? Time is a measure of change; and most people, if they sit down and think a bit, can tell you of instances where time seemed to drag out far in excess of what we might refer to as “clock time”, and other instances where time seemed to “fly by”. We simply do not know what happens on the other side of the veil. But one can likely be safe in betting that once one is dead, if one is in purgatory, that it will be very different from being here enfleshed on earth, if for no other reason than that one no longer has a body.

So in essence, it - Mary’s alleged statement - has little meaning which can be conveyed other than through reference to our senses. Mary is trying to convey a concept, not a “fact” (as in, how many years). My response would be to go back to a biblical saying: To whom much is given, much is demanded. I have no ability to to assess Amelia, either in what she was given (the visions and anything else) nor what sins and/or failings she might have committed, nor why “a long time” might be appropriate for Amelia.

Purgatory is an absolute guarantee we are going to heaven. As it appears that we need to undergo change, that whatever imperfections we have in our person need to be purged, it likely will not be a fun trip, to put it mildly. But it is a guaranteed one-way ticket to heaven. Our purging may be realtively easy; or it may be horrendously difficult, but it comes with more than a promise. It comes with a 24 carat guarantee. So there is phenomenal hope for us.
 
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The four last things…death, judgement; heaven or hell.

And

“The sin of the century is the loss of the sense of sin”. Pope Pius XII, 1946

I try to remember these two things often.
 
well im not going to argue if 70,000 some odd people saw a light show in the sky , or if three children really had encounters with the blessed mother or not.

My bet would be someone is misinterpreting what ever it is you are talking about Cone, and being in " purgatory till the end of time " versus being in Hell forever, isn’t such a bad deal. An then one has to actually define what is meant by time ? The physical existance of planet earth and the ultimate end of the human race ? The Rapture ? The final battle between good an evil ? what exactly is meant by the end of time. An then after that point " Amelia " would go into heaven accordingly since it is till the end of time.

Unless Till the end of time means forever, then it still beats being in hell. so that aint a bad deal in the end of things.

Plus plenty of people from the bible and today have encountered or seen hell to some degree, Hell alone isn’t enough of a factor to change ones life.
 
Part two is a little disturbing, because the whole point of purgatory was that it was temporary. If you’re in there until “the end of time” (I’m taking this to mean “until Judgement Day”) then doesn’t that defeat the purpose. Additionally it is said that praying for those souls in purgatory can speed up their time there, so Fatima’s claim that anybody in purgatory WOULD be there until the end of time is inconsistent with catholic theology because that implies that prayers for their soul do nothing.
 
May I ask you a question out of ignorance,Otjm?
When Jesus said he will be with us always until the end of time,I somehow have taken His word that He will be also with me and each in Purgatory too if it happens.
Is this reasonable or a fantasy on my part with no theological sense?
 
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You are right. How, I will leave to far more advanced theologians (for example, I would not say Christ would be physically present - we could hassle all over as to what “physically” means). But He will not abandon us.
 
The Church has never said how “long” anyone is in purgatory. We don’t know, and besides, one is no longer in the physical world. The body is in the grave, and the spirit is in purgatory. Even saying “in” implies a concept of physicality.
 
But there’s a problem with the mantra ‘It’s a private revelation, nobody has to believe it’. And that is the fact that churches have been dedicated to Our Lady of Fatima,
And also to Our Lady of Lourdes. Also many Churches exhibit the icon of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
 
no i am not buying to this post

sounds very much protestant

and i know Mother Church has bigger fish to fry than the 20,000 minnows that the protestant church splintered into,
 
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Well, I could care less, but not tonight. It’s too late for that. Maybe tomorrow.

But I would not say Luccia’s friend was a “child” per se. She was a teenager, was she not? And was well past the “age of reason” and quite clear on sin. Anyways, calling her child leads one to think that she should be absolved for any wrong-doing and counted as an “innocent.”

…just random thoughts…
 
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Even so, that’s a problem because it implies that praying for her soul can’t get her to Heaven any faster than that.

I don’t recall Fatima’s statement including “… unless you pray for her soul, in which case she’ll get to Heaven before then”.
 
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the whole point of purgatory was that it was temporary. If you’re in there until “the end of time” (I’m taking this to mean “until Judgement Day”) then doesn’t that defeat the purpose.
No, the existence of the earthly world that will end on Judgment Day is the blink of an eye compared with God and eternity, so it’s temporary.
 
Thank you. I realize it’s not something we can know with certainty but that is a good answer.
 
You can always pray for a person to get out of Purgatory faster, and God will make the final decision as to when the person is ready. Even if prayers don’t get them out, the prayers can help relieve their suffering while in there. This has been stated in other private revelations.

With the amount of prayers people have likely offered for this girl just based on the number of Internet discussions about her, it’s likely that she has been helped in some way.
 
One should not shy away from the idea of Hell. It can inspire a lot of good. I believe Padre Pio said that you got one last chance at death time to choose God over Hell, so those who would not grab that last chance must be really far gone indeed.
I should read more about him because that’s always been my belief. I imagine that it will be the only truly free choice we will ever make. God won’t try to test us or trick us, we will see the options clearly. I can’t imagine why someone would choose hell but we don’t know what’s beyond the veil.

This is only my personal pet belief though.
 
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