The problem with Fatima

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In FSSP parishes, there are confessions for a half an hour before EVERY Mass. That means 7 days a week. Since most FSSP parishes are blessed with 2 priests, on Sundays during Mass, often times the other priest will be hearing confessions until he needs to come out to help with the distribution of Holy Communion and then he goes BACK into the confessional after Mass to finish up hearing anyone he didn’t get to. This is a very encouraging thing to witness.
 
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Catholics who are under 60 or so have no idea how much more common Confession was, before Vatican II. This decline - probably over 90% - is really the biggest change in Catholics at least in the West, since 1965 - more significant than the change in Mass, more important than any change brought about by any document of the Council.

We are still feeling the effects of this decline, in many ways.

Now it seems odd to see so many old churches with 4 confessionals. Why not one? But a few decades ago, Confession was considered such a crucial part of priesthood, one confessional was set aside as Father Jim’s confessional, another for Father Joe, and so on.

Some of the confessionals had elaborate woodwork, with some pictorial scriptural reference to sin and repentance. But even where confessionals were simple, the parish clearly spent a fair amount of money, often bumping out part of the building, to ensure a prominent space for this sacrament, so Father Jim could have his own place, and the penitent was considered important to have a significant, permanent place to confess. No makeshift. The huge deemphasis on confession likely played a role in the decline of vocations.
 
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Catholics who are under 60 or so have no idea how much more common Confession was, before Vatican II. This decline - probably over 90% - is really the biggest change in Catholics at least in the West, since 1965 - more significant than the change in Mass, more important than any change brought about by any document of the Council.

We are still feeling the effects of this decline, in many ways.
Excellent point regarding post-Vatican II – and something I hadn’t really thought about. Sad, but apparently all too true.
 
Agreed. I am VERY skeptical about Fatima.

However, Lourdes I definitely believe in.
 
I think we have a cultural problem where we expect to be able to live by our own rules, not be criticised and expect to receive positive reinforcement for our behaviour. We are not used to being reproached for what we do, let alone be punished. In many ways we act like spoiled, selfish children.

In such a cultural climate is it really a surprise that the notion of sin (especially mortal sin) seems to be ignored or pushed away? Is it a surprise that the notion of Hell is viewed as an outdated, unfair concept?

I think Our Lady’s vision of Hell that she gave to the children was meant to warn us all. We cannot just pretend that because Hell sounds terrible it cannot really exist, especially not for people like us. We cannot just think that Hell is just an outdated concept from the past.

When we look at the state of things today and the seeming moral decline all around, how dangerous is it to ignore Our Lady’s warning?

If your children were running towards a cliff edge would you avoid yelling sharply to them for fear of upsetting them?
 
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I think we have a cultural problem where we expect to be able to live by our own rules, not be criticised and expect to receive positive reinforcement for our behaviour. We are not used to being reproached for what we do, let alone be punished. In many ways we act like spoiled, selfish children.
AMEN.

People can be doing things that they know on some level are unhealthy or wrong and they still expect to be “excused”. They have this excuse and that one as to why stuff is “not their fault”. This is one aspect of US culture I absolutely cannot stand.
 
I agree with you. The books of the NT had to have apostolic origin, and the Church considers revelation closed with the Resurrection of Our Lord. I realize that does not rule out private revelations, but I am skeptical of them and will remain skeptical.

I agree with you that each person is on an individual journey to God. Some of those journeys will contain a belief in private revelations and some will not. As long as we have a firm belief in the Church’s doctrine and dogma, I feel we’re on the right path. Perhaps a belief in private revelation will come later.
 
I find it beautiful that you can be a completely faithful Catholic, living in full communion with the Church and not believe one single bit in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe, Knock or any other apparition!
In True Devotion to Mary Saint Louis De Montfort says that in the latter days the Holy Spirit will reveal Mary to the world - wheras in early Church history the emphas was to be focused mainly on to Jesus , her Son.
 
I agree with you. The books of the NT had to have apostolic origin, and the Church considers revelation closed with the Resurrection of Our Lord. I realize that does not rule out private revelations, but I am skeptical of them and will remain skeptical.

I agree with you that each person is on an individual journey to God. Some of those journeys will contain a belief in private revelations and some will not. As long as we have a firm belief in the Church’s doctrine and dogma, I feel we’re on the right path. Perhaps a belief in private revelation will come later.
Public revelation - the deposit of faith - closed a little later than the Resurrection, up to the death of the apostles. You are totally right, it contains all the information we need. We may be on an individual journey to God, but emphasizing our response to the public revelation call for love of God and neighbor.

Private revelation adds nothing good to that call to love of God and neighbor, so keep on trying. That’s the tough part! (Let me tell you about my neighbors).
 
I think both of these are sideshow distractions that invite skepticism and do nothing to promote the faith.
 
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Dacinom:
I find it beautiful that you can be a completely faithful Catholic, living in full communion with the Church and not believe one single bit in Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe, Knock or any other apparition!
In True Devotion to Mary Saint Louis De Montfort says that in the latter days the Holy Spirit will reveal Mary to the world - wheras in early Church history the emphas was to be focused mainly on to Jesus , her Son.
St. Louis’ motto was “God Alone”, which is repeated constantly in his writings.

Keep in mind he was a poet, perhaps the most prolific hymn-writer of any saint. Anything he wrote about Mary is understood only in context of his motto, and his own commitment to public revelation.

In his time - his “latter days” - France was in danger of losing its Catholic roots. Jansenism was an icy, sterile, Catholic version of Puritanism was gaining power. In response, some were turning to various forms of Protestantism, to a worship of Science, or secularism.

Well, if people are failing in a time of confusion to respond to the logic of the gospel directly, sometimes it helps to remind people of Mary’s unique role, which we know from public revelation. That may touch hearts and bring them around to respond to Christ. I think he also probably felt that the Holy Spirit would use music in the “latter days”, which may be why he wrote so much of it.

That does not mean he regarded music as important in itself, or that he regarded marian devotion as having any value other than bringing people to Jesus.

“God Alone”
 
I agree. They give many people false hope, and when they lose that hope, they give up. Better for them to cultivate their own personal experience with Christ.
 
I admit i have been struggling with visions of Mary…sometimes I think that she is really upset by the world,but how she has this supernatural powers…
Like her Son…I know I am very ignorant…Sorry Blessed Mary didnt wanted to offend you,but just wondering
 
From True Devotion to Mary by St. Louis De Montford

Especially necessary to the great saints of the latter times.
I have said that this would come to pass, particularly at the end of the world and indeed presently, because the Most High with His Holy Mother has to form for Himself great saints who shall surpass most of the other saints
in sanctity as much as the cedars of Lebanon outgrow the little shrubsas has been revealed to a holy soul whose life has been written by M. de Renty.
These great souls, full of grace and zeal shall be chosen to match themselves against the enemies of God, who shall rage on all sides; and they shall be singularly devout to our Blessed Lady, illuminated by her light…
With one hand they shall fight,overthrow and crush the heretics, with their heresies, the idolaters with their idolatries and the sinners with their impieties. With the other hand they shall rebuild the temple of the true Solomon and the mystical City of God. By their words and their examples they shall draw the whole world to true devotion to Mary. This shall bring upon them many enemies, but shall also bring many victories and much glory for God alone. This is what God revealed to St. Vincent Ferrer, the great apostle of his age, as he has sufficiently noted in one of his works."
 
And you’re free to feel that way 😀

What do you think of the church’s canonization of St. Bernadette, and the two Fatima children?
 
St. Louis’ motto was “God Alone”, which is repeated constantly in his writings.
He didn’t have a wife, children, or elderly parents to care for. At times, I find that cold quote out of context and reducing. And I could go on about how the predominant individualism of today can easily twist and instrumentalize the meaning. Guess what, you are supposed to find Christ in others.
 
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commenter:
St. Louis’ motto was “God Alone”, which is repeated constantly in his writings.
He didn’t have a wife, children, or elderly parents to care for. At times, I find that cold quote out of context and reducing. And I could go on about how the predominant individualism of today can easily twist and instrumentalize the meaning. Guess what, you are supposed to find Christ in others.
Most of his teaching was directed not at religious and priests, but for laity. Focusing on “God Alone” leads you to love your neighbor.
 
The Fear of the Lord is the answer to learning
his secrets!! “The Lord confides in those who
fear Him…” Ps. 25:14
 
Here’s another greet quote from St Montfort…notable is the fact that he starts his Treatise on True Devotion with this in order to put things in their proper order.

‘ With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, “I am he who is”. Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had
and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them. - St Louis de Montfort, True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
 
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