"The Promise of a Post-Covid Church"

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The post covid Church is an empty Church, sadly. But as the Pope Emeritus points out, this is a good thing. It is far better to get the cultural/nominal catholics out of the Church. They aren’t embracing the faith anyways and their being present within the community only poisons the well. I wouldn’t go so far as to say we should actively try to exclude someone, but if they don’t really have the faith to begin with and are only going out of a cultural respect (like most of my wife’s hispanic family does), and being cut off from the Church via covid was the breaking point that made them stop altogether, then this is good. It’s not a reason to rejoice by any means. But the Church needs to be culled of those who don’t believe. It will be a smaller Church, but a more powerful/efficacious Church. It’s time for the “I’m Catholic but…” crowd to have the integrity to leave on their own until they are ready to embrace the faith in whole.
 
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I do not see any merit in a shrunken Church. If people go to Mass, even if they are there for “touchy feely” they are at least there and at least their younger children are too. There is some chance for later reform. But it really will take the exit of many of the priests and bishops from the scene. It does seem some number of them have become apostate without admitting it.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I do not see any merit in a shrunken Church.
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Maybe not a shrunken church, per se, but I think the point the article makes is that few and strong is better than many and weak.

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When I was in later grade school, I was sick quite a lot and when I started high school I really was physically weak. People in my gym class were a lot stronger. After just one year of very vigorous exercise, mainly consisting in weight training, rope climbing, running laps, I was one of the strongest. I could dead press my own weight, bench press double that and “clean and jerk” my own weight overhead with one arm. Had I not been in that class, I would have remained weak.

I’m for the weak attending Mass. Not all will become strong, but some will. Perhaps many will. That’s worth it.
 
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I don’t care for this analogy. It shows that you actively worked at something that did not come naturally to you.

That is completely different that the multitude of “takers” who maybe go to Mass once a year and do nothing else to grow in their faith.
 
I don’t think “converted” is the word you are looking for, as Biden is a baptized Catholic and therefore cannot convert.“Revert” is the term for a lapsed Catholic who returns to practicing the faith.

And I don’t agree that Biden being welcomed in the Church (without renouncing his current political views) and allowed to receive is the solution to conversion of hearts. If anything it would allow people like Joe Biden to misrepresent the rest of us by calling themselves “Catholic,” attending Mass and receiving the Eucharist and make people hate the Church even more due to inconsistency.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting that only those who accept and live all the Church’s teachings are “better” or “‘more worthy” than those who do not. I am simply suggesting it is wrong for the Church to allow people who do outrageous things such as advocate for the legalization of abortion to receive communion and call themselves “Catholic.”
 
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We are in a time of pruning. Pruning hurts. It’s going to be hard for those of us who remain devoted to the Church.

I agree with everything you have said: it is far better for the Church to get small before getting big again.

I don’t know if ad orientam is the solution as the author states in this article but there is something to be said for bringing back traditional style liturgy for sure.
 
From the article.
Of traditional Catholics - This sense of identity reinforces their Christian faith and liberates them from the typical insecurities of more mainstream Catholics. Having truly removed themselves from the general culture, they will be able to handle being a countercultural minority when the time requires it.

I’m confident that Jesus will be more present than ever in ‘mainstream’ Catholicism. To me it is scripturally counter cultural to judge my neighbor and remove myself from the world to be special in a cult of Catholic purity. That has never ended well.
 
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Indeed but that’s why it’s important to find traditional/faithful parishes and fill them to capacity. Most nominal Catholics are turned off by traditional parishes. They are typically “too conservative”. They get turned off by being told if they do x, y, or z then they will go to Hell (in the homily), etc. There aren’t many traditional parishes left. Most are TLM communities, though there are traditional priests who only say the NO. Whenever a solid and orthodox priest is found, people should flock there, and abandon the wishy washy churches to their inevitable closures.
 
“Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I acquire.’

But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’

I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Luke 18:10-14

Before any of us starts wishing people out of the Church because they lack “integrity” or are too weak in the faith or understanding to “embrace the faith in whole” — there better be a whole lot of praying and asking Our Lord if He wants these people looked down upon and shown the door.

Remember the Church is a hospital for sinners. And personally, I think it a frighteningly dangerous practice to judge others as “poisoning the well” of the Church by their lack of faith.
 
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If you would kindly re-read my post, I do emphasize that I don’t think we should push these sorts out. Only that for those who chose to stop attending (who never had an active interest in faithfully living the faith in the first place) is a good thing. Catholics like these give scandal and can chase others away from the Church. It’s better for the Church to be culled so that those who remain are devout and orthodox. These are going to be the souls who attract others and help grow the Church in the future. But if we keep on as we are, with so many apathetic Catholics who dim the light of the Church, we will continue shrinking into obscurity. If someone says, “I’m Catholic but I don’t believe in x, y, or z” than they really have no place in the Church and they “should” have the integrity to leave. Ideally said person’s parish would try to help rectify the situation by guiding them/instructing them. But I stand by what I said and respectfully disagree with you. God Bless you.
 
No I am referring to nominal catholics who will leave a parish if they hear their priest speak too much about hell. Heaven forbid if the priest or deacon speak in the homily against the evils of artificial contraception, abortion, euthanasia, etc. The majority of Roman Catholics in the West have no problem with artificial contraception, despite the position of the Church. Many of these people come to Mass every Sunday and receive Communion (despite being unable to do so). This is certainly scandalous for those that know them. I don’t see why you see this as judging them. I am judging their actions (something we are encouraged to do). If they put their immorality above their Catholic faith, they ought not to keep coming to the Church until they are willing to admit they are wrong, confess their sins to their priest, and seek to amend their lives. People like Nancy Pelosi (for a very public figure as an example) have no place inside a Catholic Church when they continue to live unrepentant publicly sinful anti catholic lives. The following quote applies (loosely) to the type of people I am talking about.
“It is our duty to denounce as strongly as we can heretical and schismatic sects and their leaders. It is an act of charity to cry out against the wolf when he is among the sheep, wherever he is.”
St Francis de Sales (Introduction to the Devout Life, III, 29)
 
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Here is a way of living the Gospel and regarding others very much in the Spirit of Christ which is genuine and orthodox. When we go to Mass, we pray for those whose faith is weak or damaged or challenged by the world around us, that they may receive the grace of God. We ourselves didn’t get faith because we are special or better but by Gods grace. We do what is right and strive for perfection because we have the grace of God. Our gratitude for Jesus and His Sacraments is because of the gifts of Gods grace and His infinite mercy. By love they’ll know we are followers of Christ. The Jesus of Scripture was a model of love and mercy. The only people that He had anger and contempt for were those who thought themselves set apart from others by their holiness and those who looked down and judged the imperfect in their eyes and those who tried to make money off the name of the temple. How can we know this and act like them?

In the spirit of fraternal correction in a general sense, I’d suggest people read the verses about Jesus anger and condemnation and discern whether one is attacking the right people with their judgement.
 
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