The properties of God.

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Summa Theo. Q4 A1
Objection 3. Further, as shown above (Question 3, Article 4), God’s essence is existence. But existence seems most imperfect, since it is most universal and receptive of all modification. Therefore God is imperfect.
Reply to Objection 3. Existence is the most perfect of all things, for it is compared to all things as that by which they are made actual; for nothing has actuality except so far as it exists. Hence existence is that which actuates all things, even their forms. Therefore it is not compared to other things as the receiver is to the received; but rather as the received to the receiver. When therefore I speak of the existence of man, or horse, or anything else, existence is considered a formal principle, and as something received; and not as that which exists.
This is the kiss of death for the dualist.
I’m not quite sure yet what you meant by the words “kiss of death for the dualist” … or even what a dualist is … and sincerely would appreciate any light you can shed on this … but one thing I absolutely know is true … is that God’s EXISTENCE and BEING are one and the same. One is not “dependent” on the other. That would be like saying the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity comes “after” the Father … as if there were a sucession of events or process … a sort of “dependence” … The 2nd Person of the Trinity is equally in substance/essence to the Father. The Father does not and did not … nor never will “exist” before the Son. They are co-eternal … one in being
 
Existing in a minimum of 4 dimensions is the only original thing I can think of. It makes the whole “being able to see all things” part of God alot easier to understand too.
God doesn’t have dimensions. He is pure spirit–an immaterial existence.
 
You raise a very interesting point. Are we really the same person moment by moment as a consequence of our thoughts and actions? Is the process of sanctification a change of the essence of a person? Is there a state or quality of being that no longer can change … because it is all that it should be? Sanctity … is that a change in our nature or in our Person? Is a Person the same reality as their human nature? How are they different? Is there any difference between Person and Nature. I am just asking these questions to myself … because honestly I don’t know … but i want to …
I shall have to ponder these questions… 🙂
In my gut, the process of sanctification is that which does fundamentally change us as a Person … we are not staying “the same” as you say … at least that is my conviction for now … one day by the grace of God we will each become “perfect” as God is perfect … ie … in our essence … we will no longer change … we cannot grow in “more” sanctity…
I’m not so sure we shall ever reach that stage. God is dynamic rather than static… and we shall be like God:
but then that raises other questions for me … because God is infinite … and each of us in our “finiteness” will never fully comprehend or grasp the “mind of God” or His essence … **we will never exhaust the infinite riches of God **… and thus that tells me that **we will forever be growing in the knowledge of God **… knowledge that God intimately and infinitely fully comprehends and grasps in His one act of BEING.
There I totally agree with you.
This knowledge of God is the WORD of God … who is now a Person … joined to a human soul … Infinity and Finiteness joined at the hip … God on display.
Sometimes, paradoxically, questions turn out to be answers… and exploring the questions you ask is a reason for believing in the unending joy and excitement of discovery in heaven. On this forum atheists, agnostics and believers alike are fascinated by this journey of exploration. Even though, like everything else, it has its moments of frustration I dare to say we all find it rewarding and fulfilling in some way, (Otherwise we wouldn’t be here!) We all have a common goal - that of seeking the truth… 🙂
 
I shall have to ponder these questions… 🙂
I’m not so sure we shall ever reach that stage. God is dynamic rather than static… and we shall be like God:
There I totally agree with you.Sometimes, paradoxically, questions turn out to be answers… and exploring the questions you ask is a reason for believing in the unending joy and excitement of discovery in heaven. On this forum atheists, agnostics and believers alike are fascinated by this journey of exploration. Even though, like everything else, it has its moments of frustration I dare to say we all find it rewarding and fulfilling in some way, (Otherwise we wouldn’t be here!) We all have a common goal - that of seeking the truth… 🙂
Yes, I share your excitement. Christ is everything … to know Him and love Him …
 
I’m not quite sure yet what you meant by the words “kiss of death for the dualist” … or even what a dualist is … and sincerely would appreciate any light you can shed on this … but one thing I absolutely know is true … is that God’s EXISTENCE and BEING are one and the same. One is not “dependent” on the other. That would be like saying the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity comes “after” the Father … as if there were a sucession of events or process … a sort of “dependence” … The 2nd Person of the Trinity is equally in substance/essence to the Father. The Father does not and did not … nor never will “exist” before the Son. They are co-eternal … one in being
Dualists meaning Gnostics, Catarists etc. that believe in the existence of two gods: one good and one evil.
 
Dualists meaning Gnostics, Catarists etc. that believe in the existence of two gods: one good and one evil.
thank you … i am definitely NOT a dualist … although I do acknowledge a plurality in the Godhead.
 
1holy~~I haven’t seen anything Gnostic or Zoroastrian posted on here, so I’m still wondering who or what you might be refering to?
 
1holy~~I haven’t seen anything Gnostic or Zoroastrian posted on here, so I’m still wondering who or what you might be refering to?
The point was that God’s essence is existence.

The comment about dualism was simply an observation about the Aquinas’ citation. It wasn’t directed at anyone in particular.:compcoff:

The word “Catholic” appears after Religion: in your posts.

Do you reject Satan?

And all his works?

And all his empty promises?

Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?

Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
 
Although God is ONE … in essence … and being … in 3 Persons … distinct from one another … yet THEY are one in nature … the nature of God … each of the 3 Persons

A question I would like to ask others is that what is God’s greatest attribute? In Object Oriented Programmingn (OOP) that is considered a property … God is ONE CLASS with all properties possible … and all methods possible … and this ONE CLASS is instantiated 3 times … 3 Objects of the same ONE CLASS … totally and equally possessing all that properties and methods the other objects possess… since they are instantiated objects of the same ONE class … i am just using object oriented programming in an analgous way to the Trinity … and in theological terms … that is in fact … the “ONE NATURE” of God … 3 Objects … 1 Class …

On another note -

I am very curious to find out what others respond to the question “what is God’s greatest attribute or property?” … I know what I think the answer is, but I would rather listen and hear what others think the answer is to this question

Greylorn, by the way - I am not attempting to hijack your OP … but rather elaborate on it … you are the one who brought up the subject of "properties of God necessary to create the physical universe… so therefore, my question asking others about what is God’s greatest property … according to others … since I honestly think it is this GREATEST property of God that really cuts to the center of the question you asked … .what property must God have to create the physical universe … the GREATEST property of God that I am asking others to discuss, is intimately at the heart of your OP question. Greylorn, do you acknowledge that there is an understanding according to the orthodox Christian teaching, that there is one property of God that is His greatest? I know what I would answer … stayed tuned … lol
 
I am very curious to find out what others respond to the question “what is God’s greatest attribute or property?” … I know what I think the answer is, but I would rather listen and hear what others think the answer is to this question
God is maximally perfect in all His attributes.

Is that what you are asking?
 
God is maximally perfect in all His attributes.

Is that what you are asking?
No, I am asking what is your understanding of scripture - old and new testament, what other great holy men and women through the ages have said is God’s greatest attribute …

so while in essence you are true to say what you said … in human terms through tradition, experience, Church teaching, writing of the Saints … what have they said is God’s greatest attribute? For me, it is what is responsible for God creating the world to begin with … the very question asked by Greylorn in this thread …

without the attribute I am thinking of … the world would never have been created, nor would God have become man to rescue those in bondage to sin … that could lead to eternal death … eternal separation from God … rather than the life God wants each person to have … in right and just relationship to God and each other

so to reiterate the question … what is God’s greatest attribute? What attribute is absolutely necessary for God to create the world?
 
I am very curious to find out what others respond to the question “what is God’s greatest attribute or property?”
Love! It is the supreme form of energy, more creative, more powerful and beautiful than anything else. It is the source of knowledge and freedom recognized by St Augustine : “Love God and do what you will”. It is goodness in action, the cause and purpose of existence without which everything else is valueless and meaningless. In the words of Jesus, who incarnated Love: it is the Way, the Truth and the Life…
 
1holycatholic~~"*The point was that God’s essence is existence.

The comment about dualism was simply an observation about the Aquinas’ citation. It wasn’t directed at anyone in particular.*Thank you.

*The word “Catholic” appears after Religion: in your posts.*COLOR=“blue”]Yes, it does, with a modifier(s) I am Catholic in the sense of the way of Knowledge from which Catholicism is derived, the same as is acknowledged by Augustine, Aquinas, and many earlier Church fathers before the shadow fell over it in the third century.

Do you reject Satan?
I face the suggestions of Satan every day and know the core weakness of any temptation offered under that name or any other, and thus allow such suggestions to return to the nothingness from which they came.

And all his works? Satan’s “works” are personal distortions of GOD IS ALL. They have no substantial reality, only the suggestion of it. Without the Power of God as the Light to them, they could not even be perceived.

*And all his empty promises? *Knowing God, the set of “promises” attributable to Satan is a null set. Also I don’t recall personally Satan promising me or anyone else I know anything anyway, so the question is meaningless to me.

*Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth? *There is none other.

Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? I know what that might mean to you as a practicing Catholic, I having been one for so long. Yet that thread if ideas has a meaning deeper and more profound than anyone can imagine beyond the dogmatic and Scriptural. That deeper meaning is beyond the need for belief, belief being merely a pointer, that pointer now being unconsciously used as a prophylactic to Knowledge by christainist institutions.

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting? Yes to all, in the same sense as in the preceding paragraph[h.[/COLOR]

I would wonder if you are not attempting to make me wrong solely on the grounds that I do not concur with Catholic beliefs. That is spurious. In fact, I believe all that you do, but do not restrict the teaching about Iesus to His person. This is similar to the confession quoted above in another post of the church father who did not distinguish between what the Christians believed and the worshipers of Jove, save that the Christians now owned the truth of those myths.

We also have different understandings of the words “exist” and “Be.” Since you rely on Aquinas, I would suggest, that similarly to the Bible, the translators dictum of “Idem non idem” be copiously applied. He neither wrote in English, a fundamentally dualistic language, nor do we understand the mind set of the times that he wrote in. We believe that because we perceive and think the way we do, it has always been thus. Perhaps not. For instance, there is a notable difference in the mentality that allowed religious error to be punished both as heresy and treason, mixing theistic and political arena. These were fused, yet unseparated one from the other, as were scientific and religious areas not just mixed, but fused. It was but at the time of the Enlightenment that the I, we, and it fields of distinctions we now enjoy, appeared, yet with their own disruptive axioms. A case in point of pre 18th century modalities might be the widely accepted refutation of Galileo’s discovery of the four moons of Jupiter on the grounds that the human head had seven, not four, openings.*

So, I maintain that in the order of things as must be pericieved from a subject/object mode of awareness that the majority of Earthians enjoy today, existence is derivative of BEing.

ex- 1~~a prefix meaning “out of,” “from,” and hence “utterly,” “thoroughly,” and sometimes imparting a privative or negative force or indicating a former title, status, etc

+sistere to stand Synonyms: survive, persist, last, endure, stay, remain.

Be to be identical with; In this case SELF, or I AM THAT I AM)

*“There are seven windows given to animals in the domicile of the head through which the air is admitted to the tabernacle of the body, to enlighten, to warm and to nourish it. What are the parts of this microcosm? Two nostrils, two eyes, and two ears, and a mouth. So in the heavens, as in a macrocosmos, there are two favorable stars, two unpropitious, two luminaries, and Mercury, undecided and indifferent. From this and many other similarities in nature, such as the seven metals, etc, which it were tedious to enumerate, we gather that the number of planets is necessarily seven.”

You might find the story of the Cardinal who refused to look through Galileo’s telescope on the grounds of its impossibility amusing as well.
 
Love! It is the supreme form of energy, more creative, more powerful and beautiful than anything else. It is the source of knowledge and freedom recognized by St Augustine : “Love God and do what you will”. It is goodness in action, the cause and purpose of existence without which everything else is valueless and meaningless. In the words of Jesus, who incarnated Love: it is the Way, the Truth and the Life…
You couldn’t have said it better.

St. John is also very clear … “God is love” … it is because of Love that God created the universe … and then took on a human nature to reedem and recreate us in His Image … He is Love Incarnate
 
Yes, it does, with a modifier(s) I am Catholic in the sense of the way of Knowledge from which Catholicism is derived, the same as is acknowledged by Augustine, Aquinas, and many earlier Church fathers before the shadow fell over it in the third century.
What is the shadow?
 
Love! It is the supreme form of energy, more creative, more powerful and beautiful than anything else. It is the source of knowledge and freedom recognized by St Augustine : “Love God and do what you will”. It is goodness in action, the cause and purpose of existence without which everything else is valueless and meaningless. In the words of Jesus, who incarnated Love: it is the Way, the Truth and the Life…
Love! It is the supreme form of energy
:eek:

I think the question “What is God’s greatest attribute or property?” is an example of the fallacy of false choice.

CCC #213
213 The revelation of the ineffable name “I AM WHO AM” contains then the truth that God alone IS. the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, and following it the Church’s Tradition, understood the divine name in this sense: God is the fullness of Being and of every perfection, without origin and without end. All creatures receive all that they are and have from him; but he alone is his very being, and he is of himself everything that he is.

Saying God’s love is His greatest attribute is incoherent. God’s attributes are inseparable. God can’t have the attribute of maximally perfect love without also having the attribute of maximally perfect truth, and for that matter every other attribute in it’s perfection.
 
[

Saying God’s love is His greatest attribute is incoherent. God’s attributes are inseparable. God can’t have the attribute of maximally perfect love without also having the attribute of maximally perfect truth, and for that matter every other attribute in it’s perfection.](LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You)

I would agree with you if you try to think of God like a science lab and put everything into intellectual terms - but that is like dissecting a beautiful piece of music into just notes and not really “listen” to the music, or looking at a delicious meal and dissecting it into all its nutritional value and so forth - without being able to enjoy the esquisite taste …

The person who started this thread asked the question “What properties or characteristics are required by an entity capable of creating the physical universe?”

I answer - LOVE !!!

It is LOVE that created the universe.
It is LOVE that came to rescue it.
It is LOVE that will bring it to its intended beauty and perfection.

If God is not love, God is just an impersonable “force” … and the universe would NEVER have been created. God is not just a “force” - but rather a Personable BEING … and out of Love He created the world and keeps it in existence. This is the property or characteristic that is absolutely necessary required by an ENTITY to create the physical universe.

Love is the greatest property or characteristic of God in my book.
It is the most powerful force and energy in the world as so eloquently stated by 1HolyCatholic!!! Love is not just an impersonable “force” - it is a PERSON. This PERSON demonstrated His Love for us and His Father on the cross. He not only talked the talk, he walked the walk. Jesus is Love Incarnate. Love is much more than just a force or energy - it is a PERSON - Christ.

It is IN Christ, THROUGH Christ, FOR Christ that everything was created, is being created, and will come to perfection. Creation is still going on folks!!! It isn’t just something that happened billions of years ago. Creation is still ongoing. It will come to its intended fulfillment. ALL because of LOVE!!! Stay tuned!!!
 
1holycatholic~~"*What is the shadow? *"

A shadow, of course, is what happens when something obstructsts the light of the sun.
In the cae of the church that would be the things done in the few hundred years after His ministry to historicize and politicize the life and Teaching attributed to the Master.
 
I would agree with you if you try to think of God like a science lab and put everything into intellectual terms - but that is like dissecting a beautiful piece of music into just notes and not really “listen” to the music, or looking at a delicious meal and dissecting it into all its nutritional value and so forth - without being able to enjoy the esquisite taste …
A orchestra consisting only of the oboe isn’t much of an orchestra. A meal consisting of just butter isn’t much of a meal.
 
1holycatholic~~"*What is the shadow? *"

A shadow, of course, is what happens when something obstructsts the light of the sun.
In the cae of the church that would be the things done in the few hundred years after His ministry to historicize and politicize the life and Teaching attributed to the Master.
You’re being vague. Specifically what “things done in the few hundred years after His ministry to historicize and politicize the life and Teaching attributed to the Master” are you referring?
 
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