The Protestant heresy

  • Thread starter Thread starter whyeyeman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

whyeyeman

Guest
I would like to dispel the myth that is common amongst modern Catholics that Protestants are not necessarily heretics.
A heretic is someone who holds a belief contrary to the established doctrines of the Catholic church.
One can be a heretic either formally or materially. All the original Protestants (Martin Luther, John Calvin etc.) were formal heretics, because they formally rejected church doctrines.
Although it is possible that some Protestants do not know that what they believe is contrary to the truth of the Catholic church, they would still be classed as heretics, albeit only materially.
Even if Protestants are only materially professing heresy. Although they often have valid baptisms, this is only the beginning of the process of sanctification. Protestantism lacks the sacraments necessary to regain sanctifying grace upon commuting sin.

The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,” (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441) "
 
Last edited:
whyeyeman said:
I would like to dispel the myth that is common amongst modern Catholics that Protestants are not necessarily heretics.
A heretic is someone who holds a belief contrary to the established doctrines of the Catholic church.
One can be a heretic either formally or materially. All the original Protestants (Martin Luther, John Calvin etc.) were formal heretics, because they formally rejected church doctrines.
Although it is possible that some Protestants do not know that what they believe is contrary to the truth of the Catholic church, they would still be classed as heretics, albeit only materially.
Even if Protestants are only materially professing heresy, it is still unlikely that they are to be saved. Although they often have valid baptisms, this is only the beginning of the process of sanctification. Protestantism lacks the sacraments necessary to regain sanctifying grace upon commuting sin.

The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,” (Mt. 25:41) unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this Ecclesiastical Body, that only those remaining within this unity can profit from the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and that they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, almsdeeds, and other works of Christian piety and duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved unless they abide within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441) "
Click to expand...
Well actually, the Catholic Church does not teach this ex cathedra. Ex cathedra was defined in 1870 by Pius IX. This papal bull is from 1441, and it was aimed at getting Eastern “schismatics” back in the fold… I’m not sure that it worked.

Did you pull that quote (The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: …) from somewhere? Or is that your own scholarship?
 
Last edited:
To be fair, that doesn’t mean it isn’t ex cathedra. The Church didn’t pull the teaching out of nowhere. It’s my understanding that someone can hold a heresy but not be a heretic. I think for someone to be a heretic, they have to refuse to have been corrected.
 
whyeyeman said:
Protestantism lacks the sacraments necessary to regain sanctifying grace upon commuting sin.
Click to expand...
I somewhat disagree. Yes, protestant beliefs do not require confession or offer confession formally but confession still is encouraged in some (most) denominations.

I go to a Baptist church (for complicated reasons, I am not baptist) that always encourages the congregation to confess their sins to one another, to trusted friend, elders of the church, or the pastor. But it is not mandatory for them, which I do disagree with, but in the end, I believe it is their faith and intention of the people of the Church that grants them loved and holy in God’s eyes. It is the same Trinity that they seek and love. The same Holy Spirit dwells within them.

Although there is many things I disagree with in the baptist church, I don’t believe that any one of them that proclaims the Good News will not be granted the riches of salvation (or sanctifying grace) in Christ Jesus.

“I am telling you the truth: he who believes has eternal life.” John 6:47
 
Ex cathedra just means that a statement has the full authority of the see of Peter. It doesn’t have to be from a statement that has invoked Papal infallibility.
 
They are not valid confessions. There is no absolution from a priest.
 
Last edited:
Joint Statement from the Holy See and our Lutheran partners

On 31st of October 2017, the final day of the year of the common ecumenical Commemoration of the Reformation, we are very thankful for the spiritual and theological gifts received through the Reformation, a commemoration that we have shared together and with our ecumenical partners globally. Likewise, we begged forgiveness for our failures and for the ways in which Christians have wounded the Body of the Lord and offended each other during the five hundred years since the beginning of the Reformation until today.

We, Lutherans and Catholics, are profoundly grateful for the ecumenical journey that we have traveled together during the last fifty years. This pilgrimage, sustained by our common prayer, worship and ecumenical dialogue, has resulted in the removal of prejudices, the increase of mutual understanding and the identification of decisive theological agreements. In the face of so many blessings along the way, we raise our hearts in praise of the Triune God for the mercy we receive.

On this day we look back on a year of remarkable ecumenical events, beginning on 31st October 2016 with the joint Lutheran – Catholic common prayer in Lund, Sweden, in the presence of our ecumenical partners. /…/

Pope Francis and President Younan stated together: “Many members of our communities yearn to receive the Eucharist at one table, as the concrete expression of full unity. /…/ We long for this wound in the Body of Christ to be healed. This is the goal of our ecumenical endeavors, which we wish to advance, also by renewing our commitment to theological dialogue.”

Among the blessings of this year of Commemoration is the fact that for the first time Lutherans and Catholics have seen the Reformation from an ecumenical perspective. This has allowed new insight into the events of the sixteenth century which led to our separation. We recognize that while the past cannot be changed, its influence upon us today can be transformed to become a stimulus for growing communion, and a sign of hope for the world to overcome division and fragmentation. Again, it has become clear that what we have in common is far more than that which still divides us.

We rejoice that the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, solemnly signed by the Lutheran World Federation and the Roman Catholic Church in 1999, has also been signed by the World Methodist Council in 2006 and, during this Commemoration Year of the Reformation, by the World Communion of Reformed Churches. On this very day it is being welcomed and received by the Anglican Communion at a solemn ceremony in Westminster Abbey. /…/

We acknowledge with appreciation the many events of common prayer and worship that Lutherans and Catholics have held together with their ecumenical partners in different parts of the world, as well as the theological encounters and the significant publications that have given substance to this year of Commemoration.

Looking forward, we commit ourselves to continue our journey together, guided by God’s Spirit, towards the greater unity according to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ. /…/
 
It is not the priest that guarantees sanctifying grace but God who works through the priest, allowing him to do so. The priest himself does not have the power to bestow sanctifying grace on someone, but God gives him the power to do so.

I don’t see how one cannot be given sanctifying grace if the confession is not done through a priest.
Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity, not Christianity itself.
 
No. Heresy is simply a denial of a certain catholic truth.
 
Last edited:
Are you disproving John 6:47?
Do you truly believe that all protestants, even when they have devoted their life to Christ, will not be granted eternal life because they are not catholic/because they do not go to a priest for confession?

Christ did establish 1 church. And yes, I believe that is the Catholic church. But just because someone interprets scripture differently, they will go to hell for it? I don’t believe that.

The bible is art. It is obviously the most valuable art because it is the Word of God. But art can be interpreted in many different ways, and I don’t think it matters which way it is interpreted so long as they believe in the Holy Trinity and do not follow God just for salvation, and so long as they do not cover something up because they don’t want to believe it. These people follow God because they adore him and want to seek him first.

Like I said, I do not agree with everything that is taught in the baptist church. But I believe that these people have good intentions, and good hearts. They are Christ-following, Christ-loving people.

They have also been told lies about the Catholic church, to prevent them from learning the truth. It’s not necessarily their fault then, that they don’t believe, because they don’t know what Catholicism is. It’s something that is misunderstood, and has been misunderstood for centuries.
 
There is no salvation outside the Catholic church. This is a dogma. If you deny it, this is the very definition of heresy.
 
Duckling said:
But just because someone interprets scripture differently, they will go to hell for it? I don’t believe that.
Click to expand...
Personal, private interpretation of scripture is forbidden. That is what the church is for.
 
Those born after the reformation and became Christian but not Catholic believing what they have been taught are not to be accused of being a heretic since only a catholic how leaves the Church believing in something different from what the Catholic Church would be called a heretic. That being said i think it unwise to go down that path and it would be better to inform one of the truth of what the Catholic Church teaches and to accuse one of heresy or of being a heretic. One needs to remember they believe in good faith what they were taught and believe what they have been taught to be truth. To call one a heretic or that they promote heresy is judging which we need not do. WE do not know their hearts only Christ knows and he is the one who decides who is saved and who is not whether they be Catholic or Protestant. I for one rather pray for them and inform them of the truth as I understand it due to catholic teaching and allow them to decide for themselves.
 
Indeed. There seems to be a kind of double standard at work here. They are considered part of the Body when it comes to salvation (Vat 2) but then they are called separate when it comes to obligation.

If they are not bound then they are loosed, if they are bound then they are bound. Otherwise we would be exercising an extreme act of cruelty to ever preach the Gospel, because our very preaching would condemn them. We should have left them in their salvific ignorance.

I’m sure many Jews rejected Jesus without ever hearing him personally because they believed the lies his enemies told about him. Weren’t those people guilty of taking scandal? The same would apply to the Protestants then.
 
If a person truly seeks God and tries their best to love God and follow the commands, I am sure that God will grant graces that will lead to salvation (like a conversion to the Holy Catholic Church) There have been many last minute conversions like the penitent thief on the cross. However that does not mean that it is plausible to go sinning and expecting salvation with a single act of repentance. I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that if a person was not given a chance to be part of the church because, for instance someone was raised in a setting where misinformation about the Church was given than such a person, could be saved since they did not possess the knowledge to make that choice.
 
I think must remember that there are still those in places where they have never heard of Christ like in the Amazon who do good to the best of their knowledge based on their understanding of God and can be saved through the blood of Christ who judges all according to the love he gives and the love received. they don’t know Christ but they follow God’s laws through nature.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top