The Protestant heresy

[ChunkMonk]

So it is still true that: “The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, and heretics, and schismatics, can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire “which was prepared for the devil, and his angels,” ?

Absolutely. Some clergy, even some Popes, might disagree… But they are sadly mistaken.

 

[RandomAlias]

This is a simple one. The Catholic Church was simply wrong about the Reformation. Our Lord intended for all of His church to repent when Luther and others called them on their sins, but they would not.

That is a remarkable insight.

 

[steve-b]

To be fair, that doesn’t mean it isn’t ex cathedra. The Church didn’t pull the teaching out of nowhere. It’s my understanding that someone can hold a heresy but not be a heretic. I think for someone to be a heretic, they have to refuse to have been corrected.

Also one has to have been baptized

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

 

[steve-b]

This is a simple one. The Catholic Church was simply wrong about the Reformation. Our Lord intended for all of His church to repent when Luther and others called them on their sins, but they would not.

The Great Heresies | Catholic Answers Protestantism is just one of many historical heresies

Luther’s heresies as were all the heresies of Protestant sects were voluminous

 

[pnewton]

I guess I would be considered a “traditionalist” as I’ve attended an FSSP parish…These labels are useful to an extent but they also can be factious.

Absolutely, which is why I used it as an adjective, and not a noun. Context is everything.

 

[steve-b]

whyeyeman:

Protestantism lacks the sacraments necessary to regain sanctifying grace upon commuting sin.

I somewhat disagree. Yes, protestant beliefs do not require confession or offer confession formally but confession still is encouraged in some (most) denominations.

I go to a Baptist church (for complicated reasons, I am not baptist) that always encourages the congregation to confess their sins to one another, to trusted friend, elders of the church, or the pastor. But it is not mandatory for them, which I do disagree with, but in the end, I believe it is their faith and intention of the people of the Church that grants them loved and holy in God’s eyes. It is the same Trinity that they seek and love. The same Holy Spirit dwells within them.

“I am telling you the truth: he who believes has eternal life.” John 6:47

Re: the passage you quote from Jas 5:14…

consider Why We Have a Ministerial Priesthood | Catholic Answers

Re: He who believes…

That depends on believing correctly.

 

[Entwhistler]

Yup, still believe that. Never changed. Our understanding of it did, but the teaching…never.

Basically, those who know the Catholic Church is true but still reject it will go to Hell. However, those, through no fault of their own, do not know the Church is the Church founded by Christ can still go to Heaven. Culpability is the key word here.

 

[MichaelP3]

Basically, those who know the Catholic Church is true but still reject it will go to Hell.

Are there actually such people?

It’s not just a question but think about it. What person would do that? If they really believef that being the “truth”.

 

[Entwhistler]

Are there people who think lying is wrong and still do it? Are there people who think masturbation is wrong but still do it? Are there people who believe things but don’t act on them because it is easier not to?

We can’t look into a person’s heart and say he truly believes something or not so I can’t really answer your question. But there is a possibility to thus the doctrine.

 

[Duckling]

consider Why We Have a Ministerial Priesthood | Catholic Answers

Hmm, this is interesting.
Thanks for sharing it, this is good.

Re: He who believes…

That depends on believing correctly.

How can you expect someone to believe correctly if they do not know what the faith contains?

What I’m trying to say in my replies to this thread is mainly to defend protestants who have misunderstood or been lied to about the Catholic faith. I’m not trying to say that all protestants are perfect, a lot of them in are fact heretics and I believe so. Not all protestants necessarily believe the same things, this is why there are multiple denominations within Protestantism and that is why many churches split.

 

[MichaelP3]

I think I know what you are getting to but still. You are comparing some “things” to " believing the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church" is the “one and only truth” to that.

I am not sure that is the case.

 

[Entwhistler]

Maybe those people who believe the Catholic Church is the true Church but still refuse it do not exist. Maybe everyone either believes or does not know. I’m hoping that is the case. One can still hope that no one goes to Hell. It is a possibility.

 

[MichaelP3]

Totally in agreement with you on that one!

 

[MichaelP3]

If I remember correctly, both priests exocommunicated each other. And the exocommunication didn’t affect the church, it affected only those individuals. Also, remember that the Catholic Church was upset about this and recognized that it should not have happened: they didn’t send the guy to exocommunicate anyone, they sent the guy to calmly straighten things out

And how did this work out? If that was the only reason I would say this guy had a very bad “interrelationship skill”, even worse than Luther.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

consider Why We Have a Ministerial Priesthood | Catholic Answers

Hmm, this is interesting.
Thanks for sharing it, this is good.

Re: He who believes…

That depends on believing correctly.

How can you expect someone to believe correctly if they do not know what the faith contains?

What I’m trying to say in my replies to this thread is mainly to defend protestants who have misunderstood or been lied to about the Catholic faith. I’m not trying to say that all protestants are perfect, a lot of them in are fact heretics and I believe so. Not all protestants necessarily believe the same things, this is why there are multiple denominations within Protestantism and that is why many churches split.

Believing correctly is showing proof properly referenced… true?

We know when Protestantism started, and who started each sect.

We have never in history had information so easy to access as today. One could say, no one has the excuse that they didn’t know and say it with a straight face. Best they can say, I wasn’t interested so I didn’t bother to look anything up. Just look at how fast a person can google a question on their phone and get the answer even to something they never head of.

It’s estimated that by 2020 there will be 7 billion smart phones in people’s hands

 

[MichaelP3]

Exactly!

Believe it or not, Protestants also have access to this internet!

 

[fredystairs]

It was the Roman Catholic cardinal Humbertus who left a letter of excommunication on the altar of the Hagia Sophia.

Great Schism - 1054
The Normans have taken over Sicily. While there, they suppress the Greek Rite Churches and tell them they must follow the Latin Rite. The Patriarch of Constantinople, Michael Cerularius, counters by suppressing all of the Latin Rite Churches within Constantinople. He writes a letter to Pope Leo III telling him what he’s done and also telling him that the Latin Rite use of unleavened bread is wrong. Leo is not a great Greek scholar so he gives the message to Cardinal Humbert for a reply. Humbert does and tells Cerularius that a patriarch does not tell the pope what to do. He gets no response to the letter, so Leo sends him to Constantinople. The patriarch and the emperor lets Humbert cool his heels for a while and don’t see him. In the meantime, Humbert is in a letter writing contest with some Greek monks about the use of the leaven versus unleavened bread. (Leo can do nothing during this period because he is tied up, literally, with the Normans, who have defeated him in battle.) Finally, his patience worn out, in July 1054, Humbert, without authority because Leo has died the previous April, places a bull of excommunication on the main altar of the Hagia Sophia. The patriarch responds with a bull excommunicating Leo, Humbert and those who had gone to Constantinople with him. This split lasts to the present day even though the excommunications were mutually lifted by Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras in 1965.
This split is a great embarrassment on the Church and is in direct contradiction of Jesus’ prayer to His Father “to make them all one.” However, this split had a long background. Diocletian had split the Empire in two, East and West, so there was a view of “us versus them”. There were the difficulties in understanding the Greek and Latin languages that had caused problems in the past, there were haughty attitudes on both sides (including the Patriarchs of Constantinople trying to usurp the power from Rome), the adding of the “Filioque” to the Creed, the Donation of Pepin to the pope of lands that had formerly belonged to the Byzantines, and the Crowning of Charlemagne as emperor also provided tension between the two sides. Even though negotiations have occurred several times over the centuries, there is still no reconciliation.

 

[Duckling]

We have never in history had information so easy to access as today. One could say, no one has the excuse that they didn’t know and say it with a straight face. Best they can say, I wasn’t interested so I didn’t bother to look anything up. Just look at how fast a person can google a question on their phone and get the answer even to something they never head of.

It’s estimated that by 2020 there will be 7 billion smart phones in people’s hands

Yes, but if you were born in an anti-catholic, protestant family and you were raised with firm protestant beliefs would you inquire to seek another religion if you already belonged to one?

 

[De_Maria]

Then is the sin of the men who have left the Catholic church. Not the sin of the protestants who have been misinformed and misunderstand the Church’s beliefs.

You’re mixing apples and oranges. You asked me:

What man invented the Armenian Orthodox Church? What man invented the Greek Orthodox Church?

These churches are not considered Protestant.

It was the Roman Catholic cardinal Humbertus who left a letter of excommunication on the altar of the Hagia Sophia. I don’t see how you can blame the Greek Orthodox Church which asked him not to do it.

No. A letter of excommunication is given in order to evoke repentance. Apparently, the person to whom it was addressed, did not repent and preferred to leave the Church rather than correct their error.

 

[De_Maria]

Yes, but if you were born in an anti-catholic, protestant family and you were raised with firm protestant beliefs would you inquire to seek another religion if you already belonged to one?

Have you ever watched the Journey Home? Apparently, many have.