The Protestant heresy

[De_Maria]

This is a simple one. The Catholic Church was simply wrong about the Reformation. Our Lord intended for all of His church to repent when Luther and others called them on their sins, but they would not.

Lol! It’s more like God permitted Protestants to embrace a lie:

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Now, I know you’re going to complain and say, “That’s about homosexuals!” Well, it is. But it is also a Bible principle. Look at Pharao, whom God permitted to harden his heart.

Luther and others wanted to leave the Church. Just like the Jews wanted a human king. So, God let them have what they wanted. Now, what did you and Jon and I just discuss about Anglicans and Lutherans, how they have accepted homosexuality, abortions and all types of abominable sins?

The writings on the wall, TG. Protestants have been weighed and measured and have fallen short.

To everyone on this thread. Telling Protestants that they are ok is not the way to get them saved. Follow the Catholic Church’s example. We don’t condemn them. But we certainly don’t want them to remain where they are.

 

[josh987654321]

Our Lord intended for all of His church to repent when Luther and others called them on their sins, but they would not.

I’m still not, I’m unrepentant because I don’t consider something like ‘transubstantiation’ and the real presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist among other stuff in his 95 theses as something to be repentant of, but rather something to be upheld and defended.

God Bless

Thank you for reading.

 

[AlNg]

there is still no reconciliation.

Why does the Catholic Church not join with the Orthodox churches? I thought that Our Lord prayed that all churches be one? Why not go ahead and accept the invitation of the Eastern Orthodox Church as outlined in the Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs, 1848 and effect a reunion of East and West ?

 

[fredystairs]

Sorry I’m not familiar with that document so I am unable to respond.

 

[TMC]

Well actually, the Catholic Church does not teach this ex cathedra. Ex cathedra was defined in 1870 by Pius IX. This papal bull is from 1441, and it was aimed at getting Eastern “schismatics” back in the fold… I’m not sure that it worked.

Did you pull that quote (The Church Teaches Ex Cathedra: …) from somewhere? Or is that your own scholarship?

Not only does the Church not teach that Ex Cathedra, it doesn’t teach it at all.

 

[2towers]

Rubbish. Here is a snippet from Catholic Answers:

Martin Luther | Catholic Answers Encyclopedia

Luther, MARTIN, leader of the great religious revolt of the sixteenth century in Germany, b. at Eisleben, November 10, 1483; d. at Eisleben, February 18, 1546. His father, Hans Luther, was a miner, a rugged, stern, irascible character. In the opinion of many of his biographers, it was an exhibition of uncontrolled rage, an evident congenital inheritance transmitted to his eldest son, that compelled him to flee from Mohra, the family seat,’ to escape the penalty or odium of homicide.

It goes down hill from there. Society for reason of ecumenical fellowship has whitewashed Luther, but written history says otherwise. Martin Luther eviscerated the Bible and threw out Our Lady and most if not all the sacraments, period. Our Lord and Martin Luther have no business sharing the same sentence. Utter blasphemy

Is salvation possible outside the Catholic Church? Most likely, but without the tools and sacraments of the Church Christ himself established, I don’t like the odds. As our Priest said today in his homily, "As far as eternity goes, you have to ask yourself, do you want smoking or non-smoking. [The homily was on purgatory.]

 

[tgGodsway]

Yeah. I think Luther would have gone further with his charge against the selling of indulgences but he feared for his life. By the 1600’s the RCC was drunk with political power and corruption. It was time for God to reform.

 

[tgGodsway]

No, actually, the church did not found any papacy, just read the gospels and the writings. The very word papacy and all that it stands for is found nowhere in the apostolic circle. But church government in general is taught in Eph. 5 and in those instructions, again, the papacy is nowhere to be found. It was decreed centuries after the apostolic church passed on.

 

[De_Maria]

Yeah. I think Luther would have gone further with his charge against the selling of indulgences but he feared for his life. By the 1600’s the RCC was drunk with political power and corruption. It was time for God to reform.

On the contrary, the one who had succumbed to sin and immorality was Luther.

Did you know that Luther promoted adultery and bigamy?

Do you deny that Luther said, “If the wife will not, then bring on the maid.” Advising a man to commit adultery whenever the wife was unwilling to have sex.

Now, you may deny that but it’s on the record. And he also advised Prince Philip of Hesse that he could have two wives, as long as the 2nd was kept secret. Later, Luther said he didn’t care what anyone thought, he would issue the same advice again. At least he was honest about that.

No, TP, the one drunk with immorality and sin, was Luther.

 

[AlNg]

Martin Luther eviscerated the Bible and threw out Our Lady and most if not all the sacraments, period. Our Lord and Martin Luther have no business sharing the same sentence. Utter blasphemy

Did you know that Luther promoted adultery and bigamy?

If Martin Luther is so bad, why did so many millions of Catholics follow him and why did the Vatican honor him with a postage stamp?

 

[tgGodsway]

Luther had his sins and I’ve read about them. But isn’t it just like God to use weak people like Luther and Peter who denied the Lord. God gets the glory every time. Let’s not forget King David, Moses, King Saul. All of them had serious sin issues to which God’s grace covered. Oh yeah… I forgot. Have you read about some of the dark sins of some of those Pope’s down through history? It is scary stuff. God uses sinners

 

[ChunkMonk]

Believing lies about someone or something without ever checking up on it is uncharitable, unjust, and when it concerns the Faith it is also taking scandal.

There is no excuse for an adult Protestant to not search out the Truth.

 

[fredystairs]

Is salvation possible outside the Catholic Church?

Cyprian of Carthage was one of the first to teach extra Ecclesiam nulla salus “Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation.”
Let us look at some of the statements that Jesus made as recorded in Scripture concerning salvation. Some of his statements have a sacramental aspect to salvation. Couple of examples: Jesus discusses the need for baptism in Mark 16: 16, “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” He also discusses the salvific nature of the Eucharist in John 6: 54, “he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
The authority that administers these sacraments is the Catholic Church which was founded on Saint Peter. The Church has the authority and the mission to administer these life giving means of obtaining grace. If therefore, the sacraments are administered by the Church, those who are formally outside of the Church, either through schism or as a result of excommunication, cannot be saved. This is all summed up in the Catechism:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism at through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846)

However, the Church does not teach that those who are not formal members of the Catholic Church cannot receive salvation. It is possible that some do not understand that the Church is the means of salvation. The Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston, Aug. 8, 1949 (http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdffeeny.htm) explains that some with “a certain unconscious yearning and desire” can be united to the Mystical Body of Christ. The letter further states that the desire “be animated by perfect charity” and the person must have supernatural faith.” Even here, however, it is through the joining, at least implicitly, of the person with the Church that will effect salvation. The Catechism states this as follows:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – these too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847)

The Catholic Church is Christ’s means of salvation and those who understand this but nevertheless deliberately exclude themselves from the Church cannot be saved. However, those who through no fault of their own do not understand the Catholic Church’s salvific mission, yet desire God with perfect charity, can be saved through the Church’s intercession.

 

[2towers]

Why do the Chinese still revere Mao after he killed millions of their relatives and countrymen?

Benedict would not have honored him with a postage stamp. Francis does have his good points, this postage stamp is not one of them.

 

[josh987654321]

But isn’t it just like God to use weak people like Luther and Peter who denied the Lord.

The difference is that St Peter came back, to lead the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Luther never came back.

God Bless

Thank you for reading

 

[whyeyeman]

The Catholic Church was simply wrong about the Reformation. Our Lord intended for all of His church to repent when Luther and others called them on their sins, but they would not.

Luther’s legitimate criticisms were heeded. For example, selling indulgences was banned. However, he did an awful lot more than point out a few abuses. He denies age old doctrines.

 

[MichaelP3]

I checked it out, with a very open mind. That time I compared it to not having to root for a certain sports team just because that is how I was brought up.

The checking out and “all this information” (from all kinds of sources including studying the entire catechism and marrying into a very Catholic family) I can agree brought me more into the faith, but it didn’t at all bring me “closer” to Catholicism. Rather the opposite!

 

[whyeyeman]

This is the catholic answers forum, not the many religions forum.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

We have never in history had information so easy to access as today. One could say, no one has the excuse that they didn’t know and say it with a straight face. Best they can say, I wasn’t interested so I didn’t bother to look anything up. Just look at how fast a person can google a question on their phone and get the answer even to something they never head of.

It’s estimated that by 2020 there will be 7 billion smart phones in people’s hands

Yes, but if you were born in an anti-catholic, protestant family and you were raised with firm protestant beliefs would you inquire to seek another religion if you already belonged to one?

Let’s not forget or diminish, that God’s grace is given for everyone to be in His Church, the only Church He established, the Catholic Church. God wills all to be in perfect unity with His Church. It takes a person’s free will which God gave everyone, to go counter to God’s will, which God also allows, for our will to be truly free, but free will doesn’t mean license, without consequences to the individual and their actions. We are held responsible for our choices.

 

[jcm2017]

Well, modern protestants are not materially heretics, end of story. The Church speaks.
Please read what canon law says about “heretics” and what the CCC says. The info is available.
A person must be Catholic to start with in order to be declared a heretic. Heretic is a legal description. Heresy is a set of beliefs. A person might hold beliefs that are heretical yet not be a heretic.