The protestants are actually members of the Catholic Church !?

  • Thread starter Thread starter panorama
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Attejohannes said:
There are two ways to be happy over a good act. I can sincerely say something like: “I am happy, if I have been of any assistance”, when I have been in that priviledged position. I have been and am happy, when I sometimes have been instrumental for something good to happen or in the prevention of something bad to happen. But I flee from any idea that I would have ever done anything meritorius in the sense that it would put God under some kind of obligation (Luke 17: 7-10).

The other way is to bargain with God - if I now do this act of charity, look what a Good Boy I am, please keep this in your records. The Lutheran view is that this kind of a “good work” is a sin.

I have been reminded that a father specially loves an obedient child. I sincerely rejoice as a father, if my children behave well out of love and respect to me. I would have been very sad, if any of my sons would have got an idea of my love for them being conditional of their behaviour or, even worse, had I discerned a calculating spirit behind the (superficially) impeccable behaviour.
Click to expand...
Jones,

Wow. Remedial works.

Children are obedient blindly and some out of fear. Fear is a good thing, when we consider filial fear.

I teach my child to obey traffic laws, be concerned about cars, look both ways and all the rest. They learn that from me. I see them doing what I taught them and I am pleased.

We grow into adulthood and do what we know is proper and just.

Our heavenly Father gives us the grace we need to do anything pleasing, giving us His Church, that gives us the understanding of what we should know, how we should live, and who we should be like, and He doesn’t even mind if we ask for help. It is freely given. We respond with that help, accept all that is given and act in accordance with His wishes to be like His first Son…having given us all that we need to please Him, our response is rewarded and all we did was accept the gifts given and use them…so when we work we work because of what was given and are rewarded because He chooses to as a good Father does…knowing He is the cause of our working and yet rewards us all the same…pretty good Dad, huh…

In that regard through Revelation we are given all we need to know and that is recorded in the Catechism of the Catholic Church…

**We profess our Faith…**and we did nothing except to accept and propagate all that was revealed…through His Church…also a gift
**We live a Sacramental Life…**taking advantage of the goods given to please
**We Model Christ **and do all that is asked by using Revealed truths and grace in the Sacraments, all gifts to do as we are asked to please Him and when we do we do works that are pleasing, with all the help that is given…
**We Pray **and ask for help…and we are to do it without ceasing even though we don’t know how to pray as we ought and even in our misery our groans are rendered as pleas for help…

and the Father freely gives all of that so that we miserable wretches can be found and in being found we are rendered children of God because of the Love that the Father has…see what love the Father has, he calls us to be miserable wretches and so we are…

by no means

He calls us to be children of God and so we are

I have no idea what your understanding of bargaining is concerning Christian thought or where you learned this…Is this peculiar to Lutheranism as you understand it or just peculiar to Finland?..🤷

you can find all I said in the Adult Catechism of the USA for Adults…I suggest the $42 audio…it is for Catholics and non-Catholics or anyone that wants to know about what the Catholic Church teaches…🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
Jones,

Wow. Remedial works.

Children are obedient blindly and some out of fear. Fear is a good thing, when we consider filial fear.

I teach my child to obey traffic laws, be concerned about cars, look both ways and all the rest. They learn that from me. I see them doing what I taught them and I am pleased.

We grow into adulthood and do what we know is proper and just.

Our heavenly Father gives us the grace we need to do anything pleasing, giving us His Church, that gives us the understanding of what we should know, how we should live, and who we should be like, and He doesn’t even mind if we ask for help. It is freely given. We respond with that help, accept all that is given and act in accordance with His wishes to be like His first Son…having given us all that we need to please Him, our response is rewarded and all we did was accept the gifts given and use them…so when we work we work because of what was given and are rewarded because He chooses to as a good Father does…knowing He is the cause of our working and yet rewards us all the same…pretty good Dad, huh…

In that regard through Revelation we are given all we need to know and that is recorded in the Catechism of the Catholic Church…

**We profess our Faith…**and we did nothing except to accept and propagate all that was revealed…through His Church…also a gift
**We live a Sacramental Life…**taking advantage of the goods given to please
**We Model Christ **and do all that is asked by using Revealed truths and grace in the Sacraments, all gifts to do as we are asked to please Him and when we do we do works that are pleasing, with all the help that is given…
**We Pray **and ask for help…and we are to do it without ceasing even though we don’t know how to pray as we ought and even in our misery our groans are rendered as pleas for help…

and the Father freely gives all of that so that we miserable wretches can be found and in being found we are rendered children of God because of the Love that the Father has…see what love the Father has, he calls us to be miserable wretches and so we are…

by no means

He calls us to be children of God and so we are

I have no idea what your understanding of bargaining is concerning Christian thought or where you learned this…Is this peculiar to Lutheranism as you understand it or just peculiar to Finland?..🤷

you can find all I said in the Adult Catechism of the USA for Adults…I suggest the $42 audio…it is for Catholics and non-Catholics or anyone that wants to know about what the Catholic Church teaches…🙂
Click to expand...
Well, it is this term “merit”, and getting and earning it. It maybe language thing, because the nearest translation of the word in Finnish, means some value or worth that you have obtained by your own exellence (like Academic merit, or advancement in your career). And if you use this word (in its Finnish form) in connection of religion, to us it conveys an idea that you have done something special and God is obliged to reward you.

But, please, expalin, how Catholics understand “merit”.

And maybe, indeed, one aspect of Finnish traditional Lutheranism is that we are specially allergic to anything that might sound like self agrandishment (Romans 12: 3).

There is a story of a bishop - yes we have a chain of bishops going back to pre-reformation times in Finland, of course not recognised as such by the Catholic Church - inspecting a Chatechism class. This bishop asked a boy to memorise the Chapter on Salvation. The boy, who was extremely nervous, could only stammer: I,I,I have not a -advanced a- any further than: “In his infinite mercy He has redeemed me, the otherwise undoubtedly damned sinner…” The bishop replied: “That is OK lad, I have not advanced any further, either - and may God grant that you never will advance any further”
 
Attejohannes said:
Well, it is this term “merit”, and getting and earning it. It maybe language thing, because the nearest translation of the word in Finnish, means some value or worth that you have obtained by your own exellence (like Academic merit, or advancement in your career). And if you use this word (in its Finnish form) in connection of religion, to us it conveys an idea that you have done something special and God is obliged to reward you.

But, please, expalin, how Catholics understand “merit”.

And maybe, indeed, one aspect of Finnish traditional Lutheranism is that we are specially allergic to anything that might sound like self agrandishment (Romans 12: 3).

There is a story of a bishop - yes we have a chain of bishops going back to pre-reformation times in Finland, of course not recognised as such by the Catholic Church - inspecting a Chatechism class. This bishop asked a boy to memorise the Chapter on Salvation. The boy, who was extremely nervous, could only stammer: I,I,I have not a -advanced a- any further than: “In his infinite mercy He has redeemed me, the otherwise undoubtedly damned sinner…” The bishop replied: “That is OK lad, I have not advanced any further, either - and may God grant that you never will advance any further”
Click to expand...
Jones,

It may be that your understanding is mired in Semantics and not teaching of the Church that Luther departed from. It may be that your Bishop learned from a Catechism that does not profess what the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church teaches and has taught even while Luther was a resident. In the year 529, at the Council of Orange, it was stated and taught that salvation, grace, works are a Work of God and this was confirmed at Trent…
CANON 4. If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, “The will is prepared by the Lord” (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, “For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).
Click to expand...
CANON 5. If anyone says that not only the increase of faith but also its beginning and the very desire for faith, by which we believe in Him who justifies the ungodly and comes to the regeneration of holy baptism – if anyone says that this belongs to us by nature and not by a gift of grace, that is, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit amending our will and turning it from unbelief to faith and from godlessness to godliness, it is proof that he is opposed to the teaching of the Apostles, for blessed Paul says, “And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil. 1:6). And again, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). For those who state that the faith by which we believe in God is natural make all who are separated from the Church of Christ by definition in some measure believers.
Click to expand...
CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).
Click to expand...
CANON 7. If anyone affirms that we can form any right opinion or make any right choice which relates to the salvation of eternal life, as is expedient for us, or that we can be saved, that is, assent to the preaching of the gospel through our natural powers without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who makes all men gladly assent to and believe in the truth, he is led astray by a heretical spirit, and does not understand the voice of God who says in the Gospel, “For apart from me you can do nothing” (John 15:5), and the word of the Apostle, “Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God” (2 Cor. 3:5).
Click to expand...
So, while I understand that you are Finnish and I understand that you are Lutheran…it appears you do not have a grasp on the Teachings of the Church Luther departed from or the Church I have read you studied…so, let me make it clear…

We believe and profess that Salvation is a Work of God from Start to Finish…and that is true for All regardless of which flavor of Christianity you profess, while here in the USA or where you reside…so that the Finnish should realize and understand that whatever your progress in Salvation it is a Work of God…and that our works are Works because of God that God allows us to do and are considered meritorious because members of the One Holy Catholic Church do things on thier own without the help of God or need of Grace?..Shall it never be, by no means…

because members of the One Holy Catholic Church do things by the grace of God with the Help of God and need of Grace that God allows works that are meritorius because of Him and not because of Us…it is a work of God Start to Finish…even for the Finnish that have not progressed as you say…🙂
 
riley13Kraus said:
We went to several different churches but we have not found one that we can be eager to attend.
.
Click to expand...
Greetings Riley and thank you for your post as I’m sure many people find themselves in this position. I see there are good responses to your post I hope you peruse but I would like to add my 2 cent if I may.

I would like to suggest the “born again” aspect some people allude to and consider this concept to mean you must change religions in order to achieve this goal.

I, being born a Catholic (born into but never practiced until much later), grew up around non-Catholics of all sorts. Great people with Godly hearts and Godly intensions and Godly acts. They all attended wonderful worship services with inspirational music and heart touching stories of turning to God or turning from their old ways. Realizing most of this must be of God, I was certainly open to it and thought I would like to be a part of it also but always clung to my Catholic roots. I met, what would become a good friend, a Catholic once that helped reintroduced me to the faith.

As like you there were many people leaving the Catholic faith for some of the same reasons you mentions along with the “I get nothing out of it anymore” reason. When I contrasted this with the lively personalities coming into the faith it was eye opening. I could see a difference that brought me back to a point my friend always preached to me. “You only get out of church what you put into it”.

I am not implying you and your husband do not put anything into your faith. I have no idea what you do or not do. However, I would like to point out that all of the personalities that I know that have left the church contrasted with the ones that have, as an adult, came into the church there is one common factor. This factor is their discerned involvement into their own ministry. This does not equate to an amount of time spent on a daily or weekly basis of any given ministry. This is simply the quality time spent in the ministry a person has discerned.

Once I realized this in my life I began to grow in faith in a way that is completely joyful and only God can understand. I hope and pray your journey will lead you to true discernment of what God is calling you & your husband to do.

Peace and grace be with you always!!!
 
Attejohannes said:
Well, it is this term “merit”, and getting and earning it. It maybe language thing, because the nearest translation of the word in Finnish, means some value or worth that you have obtained by your own exellence (like Academic merit, or advancement in your career). And if you use this word (in its Finnish form) in connection of religion, to us it conveys an idea that you have done something special and God is obliged to reward you.

But, please, expalin, how Catholics understand “merit”.

And maybe, indeed, one aspect of Finnish traditional Lutheranism is that we are specially allergic to anything that might sound like self agrandishment (Romans 12: 3).

There is a story of a bishop - yes we have a chain of bishops going back to pre-reformation times in Finland, of course not recognised as such by the Catholic Church - inspecting a Chatechism class. This bishop asked a boy to memorise the Chapter on Salvation. The boy, who was extremely nervous, could only stammer: I,I,I have not a -advanced a- any further than: “In his infinite mercy He has redeemed me, the otherwise undoubtedly damned sinner…” The bishop replied: “That is OK lad, I have not advanced any further, either - and may God grant that you never will advance any further”
Click to expand...
Jones,

So you may understand more thoroughly…The Council of Orange, Council of Trent and todays Universal Catechism…seen here say the same thing. Teachings have not changed…your concern for what “merit” means is explained here…
**III. MERIT **
Click to expand...
You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.59
Click to expand...
2006 The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.
Click to expand...
2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.
Click to expand...
2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
2009 Filial adoption, in making us partakers by grace in the divine nature, can bestow true merit on us as a result of God’s gratuitous justice. This is our right by grace, the full right of love, making us “co-heirs” with Christ and worthy of obtaining "the promised inheritance of eternal life."60 The merits of our good works are gifts of the divine goodness.61 "Grace has gone before us; now we are given what is due. . . . Our merits are God’s gifts."62
Click to expand...
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
Click to expand...
2011 The charity of Christ is the source in us of all our merits before God. Grace, by uniting us to Christ in active love, ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before God and before men. The saints have always had a lively awareness that their merits were pure grace.
Click to expand...
After earth’s exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone. . . . In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself.63
Click to expand...
You may see too, that the teachings of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church have not progressed…insofar as they have been the same…prior to Luther and since…🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
Jones,

So you may understand more thoroughly…The Council of Orange, Council of Trent and todays Universal Catechism…seen here say the same thing. Teachings have not changed…your concern for what “merit” means is explained here…

You may see too, that the teachings of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church have not progressed…insofar as they have been the same…prior to Luther and since…🙂
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation and quote. It helped, really, since the Catholic Encyclopedia, in which I tried to look at this particular point, was not blessed with the Charism of Clarity (at least for one uninitiated in terminlogy).

I promise that I do not start anything on free will:D
 
Attejohannes said:
Thanks for the explanation and quote. It helped, really, since the Catholic Encyclopedia, in which I tried to look at this particular point, was not blessed with the Charism of Clarity (at least for one uninitiated in terminlogy).

I promise that I do not start anything on free will:D
Click to expand...
Jones,

Then I question your past postings…from the past as to where you learned of the teachings of the Catholic Church. I ask you to first start with the Catechism. The Catholic Encylopedia is not my first source however I agree that there may be things there that may be helpful.

Have I been helpful to you? I am grateful if that is so. Do I know much? Perhaps. Am I able to explain some? I do. Am I able to do this because of anything I do on my own…humility kicks in…

I was created with a brain and a body/mind that was graced in Baptism…cradled in the Faith…and as I matured out of believing I did things on my own…I now know that on my own I can do nothing…so that whatever you percieve, whatever you gather from anything I provide…it comes not from me alone…and even the fingers that are somehow caused to type these words, that I see and I know someone will read…whatever is good, whatever is beautiful, pure and wonderful…

on this forum I am the least capable of those that wander the halls of the CAF…

I marvel at and recognize as gift…you may want to try this…I never think or believe that anything I do that is good is on behalf of “oh wretched man that I am”…because to do so would diminish all the good that Our Creator has done…and that would mean I am not praying without ceasing…

Would you like to do that too?🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
Jones,

Then I question your past postings…from the past as to where you learned of the teachings of the Catholic Church. I ask you to first start with the Catechism. The Catholic Encylopedia is not my first source however I agree that there may be things there that may be helpful.

Have I been helpful to you? I am grateful if that is so. Do I know much? Perhaps. Am I able to explain some? I do. Am I able to do this because of anything I do on my own…humility kicks in…

I was created with a brain and a body/mind that was graced in Baptism…cradled in the Faith…and as I matured out of believing I did things on my own…I now know that on my own I can do nothing…so that whatever you percieve, whatever you gather from anything I provide…it comes not from me alone…and even the fingers that are somehow caused to type these words, that I see and I know someone will read…whatever is good, whatever is beautiful, pure and wonderful…

on this forum I am the least capable of those that wander the halls of the CAF…

I marvel at and recognize as gift…you may want to try this…I never think or believe that anything I do that is good is on behalf of “oh wretched man that I am”…because to do so would diminish all the good that Our Creator has done…and that would mean I am not praying without ceasing…

Would you like to do that too?🙂
Click to expand...
Thanks for the answer. And then my apologies, if anything that I have posted has appeared disrespectful. That has not been my intention, but i) I have a (bad) habit to try to bring arguments to the extreme, and ii) English is not my first language, and some of my expressions may sound more blunt and less polite than they were intended.

My introduction to Catholicism I got during the formal religious education at Secondary and High School. The development of dogma and the history of Christianity were briefly reviewed. Although there certainly was a Lutheran viewpoint in the teaching, I can say (even after these debates in CAF) that Catholic Church got a reasonably fair treatment. After all, Finland was a catholic country for 500 years and the Catholic Church was our link to the European culture and civilization (though its evanglization in Finland left a lot to be desired, as I have said in other postings) - and ironically even to Reformation, because Reformation in Finland was started by clergy and not a popular movement. During the first decennia of Lutheran Finland probably the greatest difference the ordinary people noticed, when they a few times in a year took the 100 km journey to the nearest church, that Finnish mumbo-jumbo and not Latin mumbo-jumbo was spoken.

I have had my spiritual ups and downs, too long to tell and for an outsider either too intimate or too boring to listen. In this roller coaster I have become all the more familiar with Martin Luther, as a kind of soul-mate. When I read his very open and candid descriptions of his depressions, temptations and his words of comfort and consolation to fellow sufferers, I get this strange feeling that this man speaks to me, directly, through 500 separating years. And this has certainly created a further interest. What were the issues in his days, what were the factors that led to the point of no return? What was the system he fought against and is the system to-day the same as it was then? This has prompted me to read the more about Catholicism (not much authentic Catholic material is available in Finnish) and also other sources (this Encyclopedia included). And this, by accident, led me to CAF also.

Regarding the “wretchedness” of my state, I think I understand what Luther meant with his paradox: “Simul iustus et peccator”. I am a sinner, but by the grace of baptism God has started His good work in me, and does not give up until He has finished. This process can be painful, certainly difficult; one learns to know along this path what the devil, the world and flesh mean and can do - but also what grace means and can do. And certainly it both induces and requires continuous prayer.

I am thankful to you, and other writers that have bothered to answer.

Atte:)
 
Originally Posted by SteveVH
Click to expand...
It just seems to me that from this perspective no one should attempt to evangelize, not even Protestants, because there may be those that will reject it and therefore condemn themselves. Christ never avoided truth. He allowed 5,000 people to walk away from him after telling them that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood. He did not run after them. He told the Apostles, concerning those who rejected them, to shake the dust from their sandals and move on. They did not have to first accept and then reject the Gospel.
Click to expand...
If the Catholic Church is the one, true Church and does indeed possess the fulness of truth and those who hear this truth reject it, then it seems to me that they are in spiritual danger to the degree that they reject it.
Click to expand...
REPLY 2 Steve
=Anna Scott;Steve,
That would mean my salvation is at serious risk and I have condemned myself, since I know what the Catholic Church teaches.
Anna
Click to expand...
PJM’s comments to the red partions of both post

Correct Anna; your salvation Is at Risk. Here’s why. Noy “my judgement”; but God’s Own.

We believe in only One God

One God [Perfect] can, does and must hold only one set of faith belifes per issue.

Use this site to READ the following in the sequence presented.
drbo.org/

Each is Christ and ONLY and exclusively His Apostles Mt.10:1-2

Mt. 10:1-8

Mt. 16:15-19

Mt. 18:18 now extended to all the Apostles

Jn. 14;16-17 fulfilled in Jn.20:21-22

Jn. 17:15-19

Mk.16:14-16 & Mt. 28: 19-20

Then NOTE the passages in blue prove Christ handing on His Powers and Authority as God to His Apostles and by necessity “of the Entire World Commad” through Succesion to tosay’s CC

NOTE also that todays CC was the ONLY “church” to exist when the Bible was fully authored and Codified. It woyld be many hundreds of years to the Great Eastern Schism. So every referece to “church” and to its authority refers ONLY to the CC

Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

**Psalms 127:1 **“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain.”

John 10: 16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Acts.20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God [SINGULAR] which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.”

**Romans 13: 2 **“Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”

**1Tim. 3: 15 **if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the [SINGULAR] household of God, which is the church [SINGULAR] of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth [SINGULAR]

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, **Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, ** in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit".

**Eph.4: 1-7 “**Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body [MEANS ONLY One Church] and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, [ONLY ONE SET OF BELEFS] one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all. But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ.”

Acts 20: 28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of the LORD” [Singular]

CAPS for emphasis not shouting:D

GOD WILL, BECUSE GOD HAS NO OPTION BUT TOO BEING A “FAIR AND JUST” GOD; MAKE JUDGEMENT ON US BASED NOT ON OUR BELIEFS; BUT ON WHAT HE GOD HAS MADE POSSIBLE FOR US TO KNOW. Amen:thumbsup:

**Ecclesiasticus **15:18 “Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose shall be given him”

**Rom. 2:6 **“Who will render to every man according to his works.”

Tuth my friend is SINGULAR!

God Bless you.
pat/PJM
 
Originally Posted by riley13Kraus
We went to several different churches but we have not found one that we can be eager to attend
Click to expand...
So friend this promt an honset and frank question.
  1. Are you seeking to find a fith-church that conforms to your acceptable ideas;2. or is salvation and its necesary truths [SINGULAR] per issues of importance.
IF it’s the frist: then why not just Form your Own Church? That way you’ll be sure to be:D

If it’s #2 than the ONLY choice is the Catholic church’s.👍

God Bless you,
pat/PJM
 
SteveVH said:
I’m not sure how it would apply to those on this forum who become well aquianted with the Catholic faith yet still reject it.
Click to expand...
Not all who are on Catholic forums and even have read a bit about Catholicism have been able to truly grasp an understanding that makes it possible for them to follow Catholicism.
 
Anna_Scott said:
Steve,
That would mean my salvation is at serious risk and I have condemned myself, since I know what the Catholic Church teaches.

Anna
Click to expand...
Anna, sorry, I just saw this post. Your salvation is in God’s hands and I can’t think of a doctrinal issue (other than primacy and infallibility of the Pope) that you have with the Catholic Church. One thing I know is that you are pursuing God with a sincere heart. Without backing off of my comments, lets not take them as far as assuming anyone is condemned. As I said, that is up to God and no one else. I feel pretty confident that I’ll see you in heaven (that is if I make it).
 
Anastasia13 said:
Not all who are on Catholic forums and even have read a bit about Catholicism have been able to truly grasp an understanding that makes it possible for them to follow Catholicism.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are quite right.
 
Are all Christians Catholic?

Are all Catholics Christian?

I don’t know.

I only care what the Bible Says.
 
Mike_SoCal said:
Are all Christians Catholic?

Are all Catholics Christian?

I don’t know.

I only care what the Bible Says.
Click to expand...
Mike,

What does it say about Baptists being Christians or Lutherans or Presbyterians or any other group?
 
CopticChristian said:
Mike,

What does it say about Baptists being Christians or Lutherans or Presbyterians or any other group?
Click to expand...
And what church does the early Church talk about ?

And what church canonized the bible for teaching, correction and to have a universal set of readings at Mass?
“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it.** Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”** Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).
Click to expand...
“[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished.” Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155).
Click to expand...
“[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; **while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, **as we have already said.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).
Click to expand...
“For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago,–in the reign of Antoninus for the most part,–and tha**t they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome **under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled.” Tertullian, On the Prescription Against Heretics, 22,30 (A.D. 200).
Click to expand...
”Whence you ought to know that the bishop is in the Church, and the Church in the bishop; and if any one be not with the bishop, that he is not in the Church, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in, not having peace with God’s priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some; while the Church, which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another.” Cyprian, To Florentius, Epistle 66/67 (A.D. 254).
Click to expand...
“But for those who say, There was when He was not, and, Before being born He was not, and that He came into existence out of nothing, or who assert that the Son of God is of a different hypostasis or substance…these the Catholic and apostolic Church anathematizes.” Creed of Nicea (A.D. 325).
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top