The Purpose of Creation

[Alex4Mary]

I am reading the Mystical City of God.

Am i correct in my understanding that the entire reason for creations existence is that God in the trinity, wanted to communicate His Greatness outside of Himself, so He created Creation (everything) so that by God gifting everything to us, that we would Glorify Him?
Not because He needed us, but because He desired that we would “return the glory to Him”. This all while losing absolutley nothing in just Being the Trinity?

 

[ricmat]

Your explanation sounds good.

Here’s another one I heard.

God is love.
Love, by it’s very nature needs “someone” to be loved.
God has so much love that he wants to share it with as many persons as possible.
God desired to create persons, in the form of human beings.
These humans would need a place to live, and to give God glory and praise.
So God created the universe.
And after creating Adam and Eve, he told them to go forth and multiply, fill the earth…

So we end up with this unique gift of being able to share in the creation of new persons who will give glory and praise to God.

 

[SeekHisFace]

What a glorious and important topic!

I know this is in “philosophy”, I cannot give you a philisophical answer but I hopefully can give you a biblical one.

God created as for His Son:
“For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities⁠—all things have been created through Him and for Him.” colossians 1:16

God created for His glory and to show His glory,
" Everyone who is called by My name,
And whom I have created for My glory,
Whom I have formed, even whom I have made.” Isaiah 43:6-7

“The heavens are telling of the glory of God;
And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.” psalm 19:1

The work of redemption was to demonstrate His attributes and His glory

“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” Romans 3:23-26

" so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord," Ephesians 3:10-11

Because God is Trinity He didn’t need to create something to love, He loved Himself in Trinity prefectly. In creating however He was able to display His glorious mercy to sinbers, as well as His just judgements.

 

[EndTimes]

Am i correct in my understanding that the entire reason for creations existence is that God in the trinity, wanted to communicate His Greatness outside of Himself, so He created Creation (everything) so that by God gifting everything to us, that we would Glorify Him?
Not because He needed us, but because He desired that we would “return the glory to Him”. This all while losing absolutley nothing in just Being the Trinity?

I like that…

Creation is a natural expression of LOVE…

_

 

[Alex4Mary]

I cant think of anything in my life that i have ever read that has ever made me feel so ok with being me.

 

[po18guy]

Creation multiplied love. God remains unchanged, but now we may love - our Creator, others, and creation itself.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

he Father, Son and Holy Spirit created mankind to answer the questions that Lucifer was raising in heaven about the government of God (Revelation 12:7, the polemos (war of ideas, that was to become a forceful attempt at an overthrow of the government of God), namely that God could not be both Just and Merciful at the same time without violating God’s own Law, and that Law of God was not needed among the holy angels, who could for themselves decide between right and wrong without the need for God to tell them the difference.

As you would know, this is not Catholic church teaching. God did not create mankind to answer questions of rebellious angels.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

You are telling me that the Catholic church doesn’t teach the war (polemos) in Heaven regarding Lucifer???

I am telling you that what you quoted is not Catholic Teaching.
God did not create mankind to answer the questions of the rebellious angels. The Catholic Church does not teach this and would reject it outright.
Throw this back into the pool of incorrect theology.

What the Church teaches about angels and creation can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is available on the vatican web site.

The Catholic Church does not teach there was a war of angels in the beginning. Revelation is different to the Creation narrative.
What the Church teaches is that in the beginning, angels were also created by God. They chose at the moment of their creation to either be subject to God or not. Those that were rebellious were denied the beatific vision and became what we know as the diabolical. Those who were faithful and loyal and true to God from the get go entered into the Beatific Vision and we each have one of these Angels as a Guardian Angel.

As you would know, the rebellious angels never entered the Beatific Vision so never entered Heaven. They never got that far.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

I did not quote anything, except what the Holy Scriptures said (Revelation & Isaiah), and the rest was placed in mine own words based upon them.

I quoted what you wrote which was

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit created mankind to answer the questions that Lucifer was raising in heaven about the government of God (Revelation 12:7, the polemos (war of ideas, that was to become a forceful attempt at an overthrow of the government of God), namely that God could not be both Just and Merciful at the same time without violating God’s own Law, and that Law of God was not needed among the holy angels, who could for themselves decide between right and wrong without the need for God to tell them the difference.

Revelation 12:7 does not state

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit created mankind to answer the questions that Lucifer was raising in heaven about the government of God (Revelation 12:7, the polemos (war of ideas, that was to become a forceful attempt at an overthrow of the government of God),

 

[fhansen]

It’s for creation, for our sheer, unbridled peace and happiness in the case of humans. To know God is to know ecstasy, which He made us for. He needs nothing from us. But love desires to share itself, by virtue of its nature.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Have you even seen Haydock’s commentary?

“… By the dragon is generally understood the devil, (see ver. 7 and 9) …”

“… His tail drew the third part of the stars: a great part of mankind. This is spoken with an allusion to the fall of Lucifer from heaven, with the rebellious angels, driven from thence by St. Michael. (Witham) — According to Pastorini, the passage refers to the angels whom Lucifer drew after him by sin to the earth. …

This in no way supports your earlier quote that God created mankind to answer the questions the rebellious angels were raising in heaven.
One big hole in your theory is that the rebellious angels never got to heaven, they never got to the Beatific Vision. They never got to see God. God is the Beatific Vision.

This verse in revelation that you are quoting discusses the end times, not creation.
There is interpretation of the passage you quoted that the stars are actually rebellious angels following satan into war with St Michael at the end of time.
This thread is about creation so we should stick with that, and not Revelation.

We should not begin to discuss the problem of evil here either, that is another thread and is not fair to the original poster to derail their thread with it. Start a new thread on it. It is a great topic, the problem of evil.
please if you are going to quote scripture numbers, actually quote the scripture. Revelation 12:4 does not say what you claim it said.

 

[Alex4Mary]

No. Mankind was not created in response to the angels for they are created too. He desired first of all to have creation who could choose to love him. He created angels to help us " lest we dash our fet against a stone". The angelic rebellion was not about the government of God because not even lucifer can say that Jesus is not just or merciful without lying. It was about his own pride that made lucifer think he didnt have to answer to God. But humans were made to be brethren to the physical body of the second person in the trinity. Albeit imperfect.

 

[EndTimes]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit created mankind to answer the questions that Lucifer was raising in heaven about the government of God (Revelation 12:7, the polemos (war of ideas, that was to become a forceful attempt at an overthrow of the government of God), namely that God could not be both Just and Merciful at the same time without violating God’s own Law, and that Law of God was not needed among the holy angels, who could for themselves decide between right and wrong without the need for God to tell them the difference.

Where does this notion come from?

 

[EndTimes]

Non-existence is in fact a curse of inability to meet God.

Where / How - did you arrive at this notion?

 

[Alex4Mary]

Only if we were able to be aware of it. Its almost like if a tree falls in a forest and noone was around would it make a sound?

If we were not created. The glory of God wouldnt matter tonus personally because we wouldnt exist. Therefore we could not lament its loss.

 

[EndTimes]

Its almost like if a tree falls in a forest and noone was around would it make a sound?

We do know that when trees fall in forests with no human near it - of course it makes a sound.

Since God Exists - and since this worldly world is inexorably heading toward its end,
it behooves us to be as ready to die . as we await Judgement - as we can…

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