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inocente
Guest
Thanks for finding it. Completely forgot about it so we’re in the same boat on that one, which probably isn’t comforting but … rats … forgot what my point was now.
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PRmerger
Guest
Can you posit how a non-Catholic argues that the Bible is the Word of God while also rejecting:
-the authority of the Catholic Church
-the belief that Sola Scriptura cannot support the 27 canon listing of the NT?
What arguments can be offered that are logical and don’t border on the absurd?
I have heard the most ludicrous position: I don’t need the CC to tell me what’s inspired. I just know Scripture when I read it–it gives me a special feeling and then I know that it comes from God.
Is there another way that a Christian can know what is inspired and what is not inspired, outside the authority of the Church telling them it’s inspired?
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PRmerger
Guest
Could you address the above, inocente?
It is simply a variation of your own question above–how did Christians know Christ before the internet–specifically, before the Bible.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
Not really directed at you but for the sake of avoiding confusion in onlookers that are less familiar with Catholicism (and more familiar with other classifications of marriage), it seems that the concept you are talking about sacramental marriage here (which is said to last until death). Other marriage concepts don’t necessarily include being bound until death. And in other concepts of marriage some one isn’t necessarily always a husband.
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inocente
Guest
From what I’ve know of Catholicism here in Spain, and also in Portugal and Italy, it has nothing to do with book-learning or analytical knowledge. Rather it is mixed in with the entire culture, part of the way of life. But of course these lands have been all-Catholic for centuries so Catholicism is one of the things which unites rather than divides, if you get my drift.
Even if you know them intimately and would call them that in front of your parents, children and priest inside church before Mass it’s not charitable, not correcting, not constructive. It’s the kind of insult sectarian bigots used during the Troubles in Northern Island. We should definitely leave that one there, RIP, let’s zip and button our lips and say no more.
Nope. Baptists don’t really have any doctrine, you don’t get to join a church unless you’re invited, and you’re not invited unless you have made friends in the church and others can see you’re baptized in the Spirit, so we’re used to disagreeing and finding what we have in common, it’s no biggy.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
The Catholic Church doesn’t necessarily come into the mind of the non-Catholic just as the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints doesn’t necessarily come into the mind of those that are not LDS. Unless the person is confronted with the concepts and claims of the Catholic church there is no need to argue for them or against them. I don’t think a person can be said to properly reject a doctrine if it hasn’t been presented to a person. It may be one of the many unevaluated religions or denominations out there.
Speaking for myself, I’ve not been confronted with Catholic-specific claims outside of what I encounter on the Internet; rather I saw an occasional person that declared themselves Catholic that engaged in behaviours that from the outside looking in appeared quirky (like burying some statue upside down in the front lawn to assist in selling their house or avoiding certain types of protein on a certain day of the week). It was quite easy to not evaluate Catholic doctrine because it never came up. I only know what I know because I decided to satisfy a curiosity.
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inocente
Guest
Your favorite topic.
But unfortunately off-topic here.
Before the internet, before nations, before the printing press, before the stage coach, when most people never traveled much beyond the village, times must have been very different. Few could know if their purpose of marriage was the same as in far off lands, and there must have been many wonderful tales told by traders.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
inocente
**Nope. Baptists don’t really have any doctrine, you don’t get to join a church unless you’re invited, and you’re not invited unless you have made friends in the church and others can see you’re baptized in the Spirit, so we’re used to disagreeing and finding what we have in common, it’s no biggy. **
So are Baptists free to view the above words by Jesus as not a doctrine to be obeyed? Are they free to disagree with what Jesus preaches? If they are free to do so, why do they call themselves Christians? If they are not free to do so, then you have doctrines.
Which is it?
**Nope. Baptists don’t really have any doctrine, you don’t get to join a church unless you’re invited, and you’re not invited unless you have made friends in the church and others can see you’re baptized in the Spirit, so we’re used to disagreeing and finding what we have in common, it’s no biggy. **
Code:
In Matthew 25:40-43 Jesus speaks about the final judgment. This is how the King, the Son of Man, will judge those brought before his throne who failed to do good works. “I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” Then they also will answer, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” Then he will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."Which is it?
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josh987654321
Guest
When I hear/read the many moral truths in the teachings of Christ, in short, that “special feeling” is Christ warming our very hearts with his word and this is how I can tell that it comes from God, because it touches my very heart like nothing else.
When I am before the Tabernacle, I know that it is all about the heart, I don’t feel anything in my head, I don’t have any realisations or anything like that, I simply feel it in my heart, Christ touches our very hearts.
I don’t know how else to articulate this but I understand that response they give that you find ludicrous.
On my profile page, there is a list of short books from a person named Katya, who experienced stigmata which was caught on film and presented in a TV programme called “Signs from God” by Mike Willesee.
If you read her books, of private revelation (they all have the catholic Imprimatur) you will find they touch your very heart in ways I cannot articulate, I don’t need the CC to tell me they are inspired, I know.
If you have time PRmerger, I encourage you and everyone/anyone else reading this to also visit my profile page and read some of the short books from katya.
On another side note, ThinkingSapien If you want proof for God, all you have to do is look into the heart, it is in the heart where God thrives. No argument in the world will convince you, because God is not in people’s heads, he is in their hearts.
I apologise for the off topic nature of this.
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Rence
Guest
Yes, because they feel the Church has fallen away over time from what it was originally intended to be. In addition, one line of Scripture evidently leads to quite a bit of Catholic rules and laws that weren’t spelled out that way in the Scriptures. For a Catholic, it’s a matter of faith. To a non-Catholic, it’s nonsense.
What exactly are you asking here?
Many Catholic teachings, to non-Catholics, are absurd. The Trinity, the Immaculate Conception, the teaching that Mary was always a virgin, indulgences, are just a few that logic and reason can’t explain but are a matter of faith, period. I’ve seen non-Catholics laugh their arses off when they learned what the Church teaches about indulgences.
As ludicrous as it sounds to you, it’s just as ludicrous to a non-Catholic to suggest that everyone needs the CC to tell them what’s inspired, especially if they believe the Church has become corrupt along the way over time. After all, they can read it themselves.
Yes, they can read it themselves, discuss it with their own leaders, etc. I can certainly understand their position.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
Rence
**Yes, they can read it themselves, discuss it with their own leaders, etc. I can certainly understand their position. **
You seem eager to explain their position. Are you just as eager to refute it?
**Yes, they can read it themselves, discuss it with their own leaders, etc. I can certainly understand their position. **
You seem eager to explain their position. Are you just as eager to refute it?
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stewstew03
Guest
Do you think it’s defensible?
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mek42
Guest
There must be another way, else the canon could not have been established in the first place.
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stewstew03
Guest
Are you saying that the Church’s canon could not have been established without people outside the Church?
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mek42
Guest
Before the canon was established, by definition there was no authority stating what the canon should be. A group of people needed to look at the various texts and decide whether said texts were inspired or not. I do not believe that this initial process was ludicrous.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
mek
Before the canon was established, by definition there was no authority stating what the canon should be.
The Church existed before the canon was approved. The Church’s authority is prior to the authority of Scriptures, since the scriptures were not composed until well after the Council of Jerusalem, when the Church first met with its God given authority to settle matters of importance to the Church.
Before the canon was established, by definition there was no authority stating what the canon should be.
The Church existed before the canon was approved. The Church’s authority is prior to the authority of Scriptures, since the scriptures were not composed until well after the Council of Jerusalem, when the Church first met with its God given authority to settle matters of importance to the Church.
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mek42
Guest
There is no disagreement here.
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stewstew03
Guest
Then you agree with PRmerger’s post?
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PRmerger
Guest
Yep. Most Catholics in Spain, Portugal and Italy could no more tell you where Scripture is in the Mass (outside of, of course, the Liturgy of the Word, if they even know that nomenclature), than they could provide a reasoned explication for the purpose of marriage, as proclaimed by the CC.
That’s exactly my point.
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PRmerger
Guest
Its meant as a tongue in cheek gesture.Even if you know them intimately and would call them that in front of your parents, children and priest inside church before Mass it’s not charitable, not correcting, not constructive. It’s the kind of insult sectarian bigots used during the Troubles in Northern Island. We should definitely leave that one there, RIP, let’s zip and button our lips and say no more.
I don’t really blame them. The Church has done an abysmal job in the past providing nourishing catechesis for her flock.
But thankfully, that is changing. Our youth are on fire, and want to be fed truth, Doctrinal Truth. They are starving for it.
From a Catholic Youth Conference my daughters attended:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...xuKTpp7U0YaPW2uxq4CqxxKX0GO-pJFh2Vv4zBytZsxUQ
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