The Purpose of Marriage

[ThinkingSapien]

…alot of cases they don’t even bother with marriage (it’s simply a title for some that holds no value at all)

I’ve asked here before the question “What good in marriage” that I think voices the views of some of the people that I’ve conversed with that don’t see marriage as necessary (or see it as a liability).

so it turns into a relationship where the two can never share any real intimacy because in the back of their minds, they know there is always a way out if it gets tough or another/better opportunity presents itself.

Marriage doesn’t prevent that. I’ve already been witness to multiple situations in which after things weren’t going well a husband or wife decides to go out and find a new mate (that is aware of the existence of the marriage) and may or may not get divorced later. Marriage doesn’t stop some one that wants to leave from leaving. Not being married doesn’t prevent some one that wants to stay from staying.

 

[josh987654321]

I’ve asked here before the question “What good in marriage” that I think voices the views of some of the people that I’ve conversed with that don’t see marriage as necessary (or see it as a liability).

I like what Ravi Zacharias said -

*An utterly fascinating illustration of this duping of ourselves is the latest arts building opened at Ohio State University, the Wexner Center for the Performing Arts, another one of our chimerical exploits in the name of intellectual advance. Newsweek branded this building “America’s first deconstructionist building.” It’s white scaffolding, red brick turrets, and Colorado grass pods evoke a double take. But puzzlement only intensifies when you enter the building, for inside you encounter stairways that go nowhere, pillars that hang from the ceiling without purpose, and angled surfaces configured to create a sense of vertigo. The architect, we are duly informed, designed this building to reflect life itself-senseless and incoherent-and the “capriciousness of the rules that organize the built world.” When the rationale was explained to me, I had just one question: Did he do the same with the foundation?

The laughter in response to my question unmasked the double standard our deconstructionists espouse. And that is precisely the double standard of atheism! It is possible to dress up and romanticize our bizarre experiments in social restructuring while disavowing truth or absolutes. But one dares not play such deadly games with the foundations of good thinking.* Ravi Zacharias

I think by messing with Marriage, you are messing with the foundations, your messing with the family. To me marriage and family make absolute sense as it was set up that way by God (as Jesus say’s in Matthew 19 and Mark 10) and I believe the family is the corner stone to society, but if you remove God from the picture and throw out the ‘rule book’ than good luck to ya, I however believe your destined for failure.

Marriage doesn’t prevent that. I’ve already been witness to multiple situations in which after things weren’t going well a husband or wife decides to go out and find a new mate (that is aware of the existence of the marriage) and may or may not get divorced later. Marriage doesn’t stop some one that wants to leave from leaving. Not being married doesn’t prevent some one that wants to stay from staying.

I agree in regards to civil marriage as together with no fault divorce, civil marriage is really null and void.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I like what Ravi Zacharias said -

I’ve come across that posting before.

I agree in regards to civil marriage as together with no fault divorce, civil marriage is really null and void.

Then doesn’t that make it even more of a non-issue for homosexuals that want to engage in the civil contract of marriage?

 

[josh987654321]

I’ve come across that posting before.

Then doesn’t that make it even more of a non-issue for homosexuals that want to engage in the civil contract of marriage?

It would seem, accept for the reasons in my previous posts.

Just to list a few off the top of my head -

1. I believe It would be advocating sexual immorality for our homosexual brothers and sisters.
2. With the advocation of homosexual families, I think it would increase those that wish to bring half biological children into it and I believe it is using a thrid party to intentionaly bring a child into this world with the absolute intention to remove that childs biological father or mother when it in no way benefits the child.

This point is what I fear most, and I know that they can already do it, but once society encourages homosexuals to go down that road in setting up ‘homosexual families’ I believe it will increase.

1. Changes to education (maybe lawsuits, hopefully not) etc although this area is a bit iffy because I have no idea how far it would go.
2. I believe more redefinitions to marriage and once marriage can mean anything, pretty soon it means nothing.
3. I think the full repercussions of advocating this kind of sexual immorality and undermining marriage further for secular society wont be evident until many years down the track and by than I believe it’ll be too late.

I believe God made a man and a woman for a reason, I believe it was set up this way for a reason and if we remove God from the equation and throw out the rule book, I believe secular society is destined for failure. I believe if people continue to mess with the family (undermine it even further with same sex marriage) than we are destined for a catastrophic failure. As G. K. Chesterton said - Don’t ever take down a fence until you know the reason it was put up.

I believe this is what happens though when man thinks he knows better than God. I think we might have more ‘knowledge’ than our ancestors did, but I wouldn’t make the mistake of think we have more ‘wisdom’ too.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

I’ve come across that posting before.

Like Ravi said, I wouldn’t mess with the foundations of good thinking, especially when it comes to the Christian understanding of marriage and family.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[ThinkingSapien]

1. With the advocation of homosexual families, I think it would increase those that wish to bring half biological children into it …]

There may be a positive feedback element to this view where building a family may encourage a marriage, and successful marriages may encourage building a family.

1. Changes to education (maybe lawsuits, hopefully not) etc although this area is a bit iffy because I have no idea how far it would go.

That’s already occurred according to another thread here. There was a school system in which some of the students had same sex parents. To get students of various family structures introduced to the other types of family structures there was a book that showed children with several different family types, including single parent and same sex couple families. If education reflects the environment and culture then I would expect it to continue to happen as the culture evolves.

 

[PRmerger]

If education reflects the environment and culture then I would expect it to continue to happen as the culture evolves.

Education should reflect truth, not the environment and culture.

The environment and culture of some societies proclaim that women need to be circumcised in order to inhibit sexual promiscuity.

The Catholic view is that the truth of this barbaric thinking needs to be proclaimed.

Not to educate the children in school to believe that female genital mutilation is part of the environment and culture and just another option for little girls.

 

[BellsMom]

Education should reflect truth, not the environment and culture.

The environment and culture of some societies proclaim that women need to be circumcised in order to inhibit sexual promiscuity.

The Catholic view is that the truth of this barbaric thinking needs to be proclaimed.

Not to educate the children in school to believe that female genital mutilation is part of the environment and culture and just another option for little girls.

I’m curious, how do you advise public schools to handle the reality that some students come from same sex parental families? The kids will be exposed to it, should the school just ignore it?

 

[PRmerger]

I’m curious, how do you advise public schools to handle the reality that some students come from same sex parental families? The kids will be exposed to it, should the school just ignore it?

No, I don’t think the school should just ignore it.

I think they should, as with all issues, present the truth.

Not change the truth so it is more palatable.

So, referencing the example above of female genital mutilation, I wouldn’t have the schools just present it as an option that some people view as moral. I would say: this is a barbaric custom that needs to be stopped.

Similarly, I wouldn’t have the schools present same sex marriage as an option that some people view as moral. I would say: in the history of all of human society, there has been no better way to raise children than having a man and a woman committed together for a lifetime. The well being of the human person and of society is intimately linked to a healthy union of man and woman resulting in a community of marriage and family.

Of course, this is all predicated upon the age and developmental level of the students.

 

[tonyrey]

… If education reflects the environment and culture then I would expect it to continue to happen as the culture evolves.

“evolves” does not necessarily imply moral progress - as the immense amount of misery in a permissive society amply demonstrates.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

“evolves” does not necessarily imply moral progress

I’ll take note you’ve said this. I’ve not spoken on morality in my previous message though. Since you brought up the topic I suspect some of the parents will take care of teaching their children what their moral evaluation is on the other family structures.

Education should reflect truth, not the environment and culture.

I’ve learned that within these forums the word “truth” can mean many different things.

In some schools it would be a factual statement to say that there are students enrolled at the school that have various family structures. At some of these schools the students are being made aware that hat the peers with which they interact may have a family that is structured in one of these ways; when they encounter their peer’s families at in school and out of school situations they will have awareness of these categories of families and understand why one of their peers does or does not refer to two people as “mom” on does not refer to any person as “mom” and/or “dad”.

Does your usage of the word “truth” here mean something other than a factual statement?

 

[PRmerger]

Does your usage of the word “truth” here mean something other than a factual statement?

Are you talking about my reference to female circumcision?

Do you think there is some other truth to this barbaric custom, other than it needs to be stopped?

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Are you talking about my reference to female circumcision?

Do you think there is some other truth to this barbaric custom, other than it needs to be stopped?

I am primarily referring to your declaration that “education should reflect truth, not the environment and culture.” I have not yet evaluated your statements on circumcision. I want to make sure I know what you mean by “truth.”

 

[PRmerger]

I am primarily referring to your declaration that “education should reflect truth, not the environment and culture.” I have not yet evaluated your statements on circumcision. I want to make sure I know what you mean by “truth.”

Well, let’s just take the female circ example.

Do you think there’s some other truth regarding this custom, other than it should never, ever, ever be practiced?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Thinking Sapien

There was a school system in which some of the students had same sex parents. To get students of various family structures introduced to the other types of family structures there was a book that showed children with several different family types, including single parent and same sex couple families. If education reflects the environment and culture then I would expect it to continue to happen as the culture evolves.

Right. As Germany evolved, the crucifix was banned in the classroom. Such progress!

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Well, let’s just take the female circ example.

Do you think there’s some other truth regarding this custom,

I’m afraid I can’t be sure what you are asking without clarification of which meaning of “truth” you are applying here. Let me know if you can think of a definition that fits your usage. Thanks.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I’m curious, how do you advise public schools to handle the reality that some students come from same sex parental families? The kids will be exposed to it, should the school just ignore it?

I had wondered how some of the people I know would deal with this. I called a couple of parents to see what they would say.

One parent is a single mother, Christian, and has both of her children at a private (religious) school. When I described the book she said that she finds it disturbing, but it’s the book was a reflection of the world in which we live. Socially she didn’t think that the existences of these family structures is something to be ignored, though she also said she didn’t think this was the type of family that God meant for us. She was unsure about how to balance her religious position with the presence of gays in society. Her children are aware of the existence of gays because they have seen adults being affectionate in public.

The other parent I asked is non-religious (though she does have a God-concept that differs from the Catholic God-concept) and a single mother of a daughter. Her daughter is currently enrolled at a private (religious) school. For her the presence of books with such families were also non-issues. Her daughter is older than the other parent’s children. But in retrospect it seems that it wasn’t ever an issue for her so long as the sexual act wasn’t being described. So shows like “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy”, “Glee”, “Will and Grace” or “Modern Family” have also been non-issues (links provided for those unfamiliar with the show).

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Right. As Germany evolved,

Mike Godwin’s law

 

[PRmerger]

I’m afraid I can’t be sure what you are asking without clarification of which meaning of “truth” you are applying here. Let me know if you can think of a definition that fits your usage. Thanks.

I think that you’re being a bit coy here, TS.

And because of that I will take the liberty of answering for you.

You would, of course, answer that there is no other way to look at female genital mutilation other than with this truth: it is never, ever, ever acceptable to practice this custom.

As such, I think that this refutes your position that we should tailor our education to be consonant with the environment and culture.

Even you don’t believe we should do that, as it applies to female genital mutilation.

You understand quite well what the truth is regarding this bizarre and barbaric custom: it must be banned, even if cultures promote this practice.

Cultures can be wrong.

Truth trumps everything, TS.

 

[josh987654321]

There may be a positive feedback element to this view where building a family may encourage a marriage, and successful marriages may encourage building a family.

I think it will have negative feedback, as the foundational structure of marriage and family is being undone. I read a piece on here where the basic terms “mum” and “dad” were removed (from somewhere can’t remember where though) becuase it was discrimination, I wouldn’t want kids being taught that to say “mum” or “dad” is discrimination and offensive, I don’t want the future generation taught to refer to their parents as “Partner 1” and “Partner 2” or even “Partner 3-4”

That’s already occurred according to another thread here.

I read another one on here where a homosexual couple were trying to sue a Church for refusing to marry them in it. I doubt it will get through, but if something like that does occur and gets through, a precedent will be set, than I will be worried.

There was a school system in which some of the students had same sex parents. To get students of various family structures introduced to the other types of family structures there was a book that showed children with several different family types, including single parent and same sex couple families. If education reflects the environment and culture then I would expect it to continue to happen as the culture evolves.

It would look that way, so that’s another reason why I wouldn’t want same sex marriage to get through, because I believe the next step will be to indoctrine the next generation of society with it and when the Church doesn’t budge, it will pitch the state against the Church, because how can you establish a fundamental right (the right for same sex couples to marry) and not enforce this right? I think eventually they will try to enforce it, but to what degree? I don’t know and that’s worrying.

I’m curious, how do you advise public schools to handle the reality that some students come from same sex parental families? The kids will be exposed to it, should the school just ignore it?

That’s what the schools have already all been doing.

Would you teach that Abortion was ‘okay’ because some of the kids mothers might have had an Abortion?

The Schools simply don’t touch on any of these issues.

When I was in school marriage was never even touched on. So it’s funny that before this whole same sex marriage debate, marriage wasn’t even a topic in school, yet now it seems they all want to teach it.

I had wondered how some of the people I know would deal with this. I called a couple of parents to see what they would say.

One parent is a single mother, Christian, and has both of her children at a private (religious) school. When I described the book she said that she finds it disturbing, but it’s the book was a reflection of the world in which we live. Socially she didn’t think that the existences of these family structures is something to be ignored, though she also said she didn’t think this was the type of family that God meant for us. She was unsure about how to balance her religious position with the presence of gays in society. Her children are aware of the existence of gays because they have seen adults being affectionate in public.

The other parent I asked is non-religious (though she does have a God-concept that differs from the Catholic God-concept) and a single mother of a daughter. Her daughter is currently enrolled at a private (religious) school. For her the presence of books with such families were also non-issues. Her daughter is older than the other parent’s children. But in retrospect it seems that it wasn’t ever an issue for her so long as the sexual act wasn’t being described. So shows like “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy”, “Glee”, “Will and Grace” or “Modern Family” have also been non-issues (links provided for those unfamiliar with the show).

Interesting.

What was the question you asked them?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh