The Push to Ordain Female Priests Gains Ground

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Exactly. It’s a not-so-subtle way of reinforcing the misconceptions of those like some in the Jesus seminar crowd and others who try to downplay or even deny the miraculous or the “God” in Christ in favor of over-emphasing the ‘man’ in Christ.

The ‘man’ couldn’t 'possibly buck the societal trends’.
The “God” obviously could have, had He wished to do so. But since some don’t want to present Christ as God so much as they want Christ as man, they will make that ridiculous, “Well, Jesus didn’t do this because of the society of the times”. Yeah, and as another poster noted, He’d already gone against the ‘society of the times’ throughout His whole ministry including His suffering and death on the cross --amazing that with all of that He simply couldn’t deal with the **JEWISH MALE PRIESTHOOD idea **–because of course, Gentiles had had ‘priestesses’ for millennia and wouldn’t have turned a hair. No, Jesus was ‘subject’ to a few rigid Jewish MEN regarding ‘female priests’ even though He wasn’t subject to those VERY SAME MEN when it came to salvation.

:clapping::yup:

 

[The_Rock]

BTW, when the Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was proclaimed, it had been VOTED upon by the members of the Magisterium.

Rich,

I know the Pope had asked what the “mind of the Bishops” and the faithful was concerning defining the doctrine, but is it accurate to call it a VOTE? Even if a majority of the Bishops had urged him to proclaim the doctrine, I believe the Pope could only infallibly proclaim the doctrine if the Holy Spirit had revealed it to the Pope.

INEFFABILIS DEUS (The Immaculate Conception)
Pope Pius IX
…
The Mind of the Bishops

Although we knew the mind of the bishops from the petitions which we had received from them, namely, that the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin be finally defined, nevertheless, on February 2, 1849,[27] we sent an Encyclical Letter from Gaeta to all our venerable brethren, the bishops of the Catholic world, that they should offer prayers to God and then tell us in writing what the piety an devotion of their faithful was in regard to the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God. We likewise inquired what the bishops themselves thought about defining this doctrine and what their wishes were in regard to making known with all possible solemnity our supreme judgment.

We were certainly filled with the greatest consolation when the replies of our venerable brethren came to us. For, replying to us with a most enthusiastic joy, exultation and zeal, they not only again confirmed their own singular piety toward the Immaculate Conception of the most Blessed Virgin, and that of the secular and religious clergy and of the faithful, but with one voice they even entreated us to define our supreme judgment and authority the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin. In the meantime we were indeed filled with no less joy when, after a diligent examination, our venerable brethren, the cardinals of the special congregation and the theologians chosen by us as counselors (whom we mentioned above), asked with the same enthusiasm and fervor for the definition of the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God.

Consequently, following the examples of our predecessors, and desiring to proceed in the traditional manner, we announced and held a consistory, in which we addressed our brethren, the cardinals of the Holy Roman Church. It was the greatest spiritual joy for us when we heard them ask us to promulgate the dogmatic definition of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mother of God.[28]…

Wherefore, in humility and fasting, we unceasingly offered our private prayers as well as the public prayers of the Church to God the Father through his Son, that he would deign to direct and strengthen our mind by the power of the Holy Spirit. In like manner did we implore the help of the entire heavenly host as we ardently invoked the Paraclete. Accordingly, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, for the honor of the Holy and undivided Trinity, for the glory and adornment of the Virgin Mother of God, for the exaltation of the Catholic Faith, and for the furtherance of the Catholic religion, by the authority of Jesus Christ our Lord, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own: "We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.

 

[edwest2]

You understand perfectly, however Time in their delusion seem to think since they have said this it will be so. They really are in some altered state of reality that is way far removed from Catholicism.

Well, of course. If you get enough “important” people speaking up for this idea, and get some “important” publications like TIME to do the same, well then, everything automatically changes ! Or not.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Exactly! Reading a variety of opinions about various subjects from numerous sources is one means of seeking the truth and trying to understand it.

Secular sources are almost invariably, not a good source of opinions for understanding Church teaching. The Western media is hostile towards Christianity and the Catholic Church in particular.

Opinions are to be avoided. Reading actual Church teaching and commentary from Catholic sources is the better way to go.

God bless,
Ed

 

[SunnaB16]

The only ground the advocates of “priestesses” need to gain is ground in a cemetery, where all of their false hopes will be buried, along with (Rag) Time magazine when its time runs out.

 

[Tsuwano]

Secular sources are almost invariably, not a good source of opinions for understanding Church teaching. The Western media is hostile towards Christianity and the Catholic Church in particular.

Opinions are to be avoided. Reading actual Church teaching and commentary from Catholic sources is the better way to go.

God bless,
Ed

Well, you may be right that secular sources are not a good source for understanding Church teaching, but the only way you could really know that is if you actually read the darned stuff. It is certainly an opinion that the Western media is hostile towards Christianity and the Catholic Church in particular, but again, actually reaching that conclusion would require, it seems to me, actually reading the material to bolster your opinion. Opinions are not to be avoided, they are to be investigated, and if found wanting, repudiated. Of course one should read Church teaching and commentary from Catholic sources to be informed. No one disputes that. But it is also true that the Church has always championed reason as a means of discovering truth. It is reasonable to seek out many different sources of information if one is to be fully informed about an issue. I’m sorry, but I trust the intelligence of the average Catholic who wishes to be informed about the world. We’re not as stupid as some would like us to be.

 

[Tigg]

Well, you may be right that secular sources are not a good source for understanding Church teaching, but the only way you could really know that is if you actually read the darned stuff. It is certainly an opinion that the Western media is hostile towards Christianity and the Catholic Church in particular, but again, actually reaching that conclusion would require, it seems to me, actually reading the material to bolster your opinion. Opinions are not to be avoided, they are to be investigated, and if found wanting, repudiated. Of course one should read Church teaching and commentary from Catholic sources to be informed. No one disputes that. But it is also true that the Church has always championed reason as a means of discovering truth. It is reasonable to seek out many different sources of information if one is to be fully informed about an issue. I’m sorry, but I trust the intelligence of the average Catholic who wishes to be informed about the world. We’re not as stupid as some would like us to be.

The danger that I see is the incontrovertible issue of the loss of faith. A truly spiritual and devout faith life would ensure a melding of both reason and truth. The gift of discernment, for instance, is absolutely necessary in understanding some of the evil motivation behind the movements we see within the Church and politics.

Looking at the list of the greatest dissenters, I most often see the academia - the intelligentsia leading the group!

 

[Tsuwano]

The danger that I see is the incontrovertible issue of the loss of faith. A truly spiritual and devout faith life would ensure a melding of both reason and truth. The gift of discernment, for instance, is absolutely necessary in understanding some of the evil motivation behind the movements we see within the Church and politics.

Looking at the list of the greatest dissenters, I most often see the academia - the intelligentsia leading the group!

I agree with you, and I would say that anyone who depends solely upon Time Magazine, or any other sole source, in order to form opinion is foolish. His opinion will be uninformed. This is why I advocate a wide reading of various sources. Now, I have to be careful here because I’m not really talking about reading for the purpose of cultivating a “truly spiritual and devout faith life.” I realize there are times in one’s spiritual development when one’s reading should be focused and limited to those works which will lead to greater faith. Naturally, a novice would not read Time Magazine for the purpose of understanding St. John of the Cross. What I am talking about is the development of civil opinion and knowledge. If I wish to understand the role of the Church in American society, then I would not ignore the popular magazines or newspaper articles which talk about that subject, even if I disagree with it or think it is biased against the Church. To do so would be to limit one’s own understanding of the issue, self-censorship as it were, and that would be a foolish thing to do if one truly wishes to understand the issue.

 

[edwest2]

Well, you may be right that secular sources are not a good source for understanding Church teaching, but the only way you could really know that is if you actually read the darned stuff. It is certainly an opinion that the Western media is hostile towards Christianity and the Catholic Church in particular, but again, actually reaching that conclusion would require, it seems to me, actually reading the material to bolster your opinion. Opinions are not to be avoided, they are to be investigated, and if found wanting, repudiated. Of course one should read Church teaching and commentary from Catholic sources to be informed. No one disputes that. But it is also true that the Church has always championed reason as a means of discovering truth. It is reasonable to seek out many different sources of information if one is to be fully informed about an issue. I’m sorry, but I trust the intelligence of the average Catholic who wishes to be informed about the world. We’re not as stupid as some would like us to be.

Opinion is not truth. I hope you understand that. The internet is filled with opinions.

Reason can only discover truth if it is supplied with facts. Internet Opinion Culture is filled with false facts based on rumor and even maliciousness.

TIME magazine has been added to my list of magazines I will no longer buy because it now takes facts and uses them to support an agenda. Journalism is about fair and unbiased reporting, not about advocating some particular issue or cause. It would be good if Catholics learned the difference between fact filled information and information that tries to get you to believe something even though it may contain some facts.

Can you trust the sources of information you use? That should be everyone’s first concern. Unfortunately, Catholics sometimes trust sources that are not worthy of trust.

God bless,
Ed

 

[SamH]

Incidentally, the writer of the second piece is Tim Padgett, who also wrote a caustic opinion piece on the Vatican’s statement about the ordination of women. Among other things, he calls the bishops (and, presumably, the Holy Father) “a bunch of homophobes wearing miters.” My apologies to Il Papa and the bishops, but I think it’s safe to say that this particular writer is not unbiased. Whether his personal opinions influenced his news piece, I leave for you to discern for yourself.

His opinion piece/rant loosely connects claims that Jesus wanted Mary of Bethany to be like Peter and the other Apostles (making her an Apostle), the Church’s sex scandal, alleged homophobia, and women’s ordination. To me, it seemed like a quasi-incoherent rant about all of that writer’s grievances with the Church and a platform to claim that “real Catholics” like him are at great odds with the Magisterium.

Sounds like Tim Padgett read a Dan Brown book and thinks he’s an expert on the Catholic Church. I guess no one told him Dan Brown writes fiction.

 

[Tsuwano]

Opinion is not truth. I hope you understand that. The internet is filled with opinions.

Reason can only discover truth if it is supplied with facts. Internet Opinion Culture is filled with false facts based on rumor and even maliciousness.

TIME magazine has been added to my list of magazines I will no longer buy because it now takes facts and uses them to support an agenda. Journalism is about fair and unbiased reporting, not about advocating some particular issue or cause. It would be good if Catholics learned the difference between fact filled information and information that tries to get you to believe something even though it may contain some facts.

Can you trust the sources of information you use? That should be everyone’s first concern. Unfortunately, Catholics sometimes trust sources that are not worthy of trust.

God bless,
Ed

Well, opinion is not necessarily false either. In other words, some opinions are true just as some are false. It is by reading and becoming informed about issues that we are able to determine which opinions are which. I respect your decision to avoid Time Magazine. I don’t think it is particularly useful either. My point is that the informed person should read a variety of publications to stay informed and to correct his opinions. It is not true to say that journalism does not or should not advance a particular cause or agenda. This has always been a part of journalism since the first broadsheet was published. Various publications claim that they are fair and unbiased, and I think many truly try to be, but journalism is not merely about reporting events. It is also about interpreting events and determining what those events mean in our daily lives. Various publications offer many different interpretations of the same event. Which one is true? That is for the reader to discover. He does so by reading those publications and measuring them against his own experience and against other things he believes to be true. I would hope that Catholics would measure those publications against the truth they know as expressed in our faith and judge the reporting accordingly, but simply to stop reading everything except that which the Church provides is not a adequate means of informing opinion, at least not for me. I agree that Catholics sometimes trust those publications which are unworthy of trust, which is why we should read everything with some degree of scepticism. But simply not reading does not strike me as particularly useful.

 

[OriginalJS]

Opinion is not truth. I hope you understand that. The internet is filled with opinions.

Reason can only discover truth if it is supplied with facts. Internet Opinion Culture is filled with false facts based on rumor and even maliciousness.

TIME magazine has been added to my list of magazines I will no longer buy because it now takes facts and uses them to support an agenda. Journalism is about fair and unbiased reporting, not about advocating some particular issue or cause. It would be good if Catholics learned the difference between fact filled information and information that tries to get you to believe something even though it may contain some facts.

Can you trust the sources of information you use? That should be everyone’s first concern. Unfortunately, Catholics sometimes trust sources that are not worthy of trust.

Everything written that includes an opinion, even if reported as fact, reflects the writer’s agenda. That is just human nature. This is why every opinion must be considered and weighed.