The question of miracles - Are there convincing miracle cases?

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Blindseeker04

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Hello everyone, new to the forum. I am an Agnostic who’s searching to find the truth. Since I’m trying to find out if Christianity and Catholicism in specific is true, if it includes actual miracles, it would only speak for it. My issue is that most miracle claims are either too far into the past with not much evidence, or things that seem impressive at first sight, but turn out not so, like the Incorruptibles a lot of whom have been found to have been mummified (St Margaret of Cortona for example).

Are there any miracles that you consider really defensible?
 
I’m not particularly knowledgeable about miracles, since I have other larger interests, but I would look into the miracles at Lourdes. They’ve been subjected to investigation by secular scientists and have quite a reputation.
 
Yes I have 2.

First one is external: the Church which exists for 2000 years already. Show me another institution of 2000 years. All of them fall apart because of human greed and pride. True sign that Church is from God.

Second one internal: conversions of sinners. How can a person be a sinner one day then completely different another, praising the God and praying? Only God can do that.

God bless!
 
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May I ask a follow up?

First of all, when I’m talking about miracle, I’m talking about something violating the laws of nature as we understand them, like for example turning water into wine. Not unlikely events, or weird occurrences.

Second, I would like to ask, why there’s the appearance that miracles have been vanishing the more we reach the modern era. In the Old Testament for example we have dozen of miracles performed by God, Angels, Prophets, even Magicians. We all know of course the miracles in the New Testament and we have stories about incredible miracles through the centuries after that with Saints healing, levitating etc. Where’s all that now?
 
tomo_pomo said:
the Church which exists for 2000 years already. Show me another institution of 2000 years. All of them fall apart because of human greed and pride. True sign that Church is from God.
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Judaism is much older and so is Hinduism for starters. It is the oldest Christian Church, however.
tomo_pomo said:
How can a person be a sinner one day then completely different another, praising the God and praying? Only God can do that.
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Many people have made dramatic changes in their lives without using religion as a basis. I’m not denying the dramatic changes that a believer can accomplish but it really isn’t unique to Christianity.

I’m not trying to be argumentative but I think the OP is looking for something truly miraculous by any investigation.
 
Depends on what you consider convincing. Some people are convinced by the miracles of Lourdes, the sun miracle at Fatima, the uniqueness of the Shroud of Turin, the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, and the list goes on. Yet some people, nothing will convince them, even if the dead came back to life, they would not believe.
 
Blindseeker04 said:
Are there any miracles that you consider really defensible?
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I believe Fatima. Mainly because of the eye witness testimony of the miracle of the sun.

I believe Juan Diego’s tilma is a miracle.

I believe the Shroud of Turin.

However none of them influence my faith. I firmly believed Jesus is the Son of God, was crucified, died & rose again way before I gave much thought to any of those. Lourdes too. For St Bernadette to say the lady’s name is the Immaculate Conception… that’s proof to me that she saw what she says she saw.
 
I am not a believer. I am fascinated by belief. One of the most fascinating of beliefs I believe (see what I did there?) is the widespread Catholic belief in miracles. I don’t mean 'the recovery of someone from ‘flu’ or ‘an unexpected donation’ or ‘the fact that a house was not flooded’, all of which I have seen described as miraculous.

I mean belief in ‘miracles’ that are plaining originally events such as the occasional partial preservation of a corpse of a saint. On past experience, someone will shortly post a picture of the wax mask of St Theresa and say this is a miracle.

I would be impressed by any of the NT miracles performed under controlled conditions, in particular the rising of hundreds of people from their graves after the resurrection of Jesus and instant cures of leprosy. But modern causes of sainthood usually feature ‘miracles’ that match other events in medical literature such as spontaneous remission of cancer. The Church does not publish full scientific information on these cases and relies on ‘cannot be explained’ comments from scientists. Well, I have an annoying condition at the moment which ‘cannot be explained’ but I don’t think it is a miracle.

In my view the Church would be wise to cease all public endorsement of miracles except those (should there be any) that pass very high standards of scientific proof. All others should be seen as ‘pious practices’ that do no harm. Claims of miracles that are impossible to believe for non-believers are bad PR.

Proof of this is that (as far as I know) there is no flood of people from Protestantism to Catholicism as a result of ‘miracles’. If they were convincing, there would be, just as there would be a flood of Catholic converts to televangelists’ causes if their on-screen ‘healing miracles’ were credible.
 
tomo_pomo said:
Show me another institution of 2000 years. All of them fall apart because of human greed and pride.
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Vedic Hinduism is about 3500 years old and has not fallen apart but is still popular in India. Actually, there is a Vedic Hindu temple nearby here in the USA and many people attend.
 
The easiest place to start investigating miracles may be those attributed to the intercession of certain people in the process of being beatified or canonized, such as the Venerable Fulton J Sheen. The Church heavily scrutinizes these miracles attributed to them because, unlike private revelations such as Marian apparitions, which the faithful aren’t obliged to believe, we all must believe that the Church has judged rightly in declaring one a saint.
 
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Rather: I am wondering what proof atheists or other non-believer’s demand in order to hold their beliefs. Where are the miracles there?

The miracles at Lourdes are on-going. They have converted many skeptics. My conversion and recovery from three simultaneous cancers I attribute to Lourdes, but that is the conviction of my heart.
 
Freddy said:
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tomo_pomo:
Show me another institution of 2000 years.
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Buddhism’s been around for 2,600 years.
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As a religion, yes. But Buddhism isn’t an “institution” as the Church is, as far as I’m aware.
 
And, let us remember that Christ’s Church is the fulfillment of Judaism, which has been around since long before the philosopher Buddha. And, it was revealed to man by God - not revealed to man by man. Plenty of well-attested miracles in the Old Testament.
 
Blindseeker04 said:
May I ask a follow up?

First of all, when I’m talking about miracle, I’m talking about something violating the laws of nature as we understand them, like for example turning water into wine. Not unlikely events, or weird occurrences.

Second, I would like to ask, why there’s the appearance that miracles have been vanishing the more we reach the modern era. In the Old Testament for example we have dozen of miracles performed by God, Angels, Prophets, even Magicians. We all know of course the miracles in the New Testament and we have stories about incredible miracles through the centuries after that with Saints healing, levitating etc. Where’s all that now?
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Yes, if you are looking for physical one you won’t find any. Not because they don’t exist, but because it will not necessary make you believe. There are miracles today, like recent Eucharistic miracle, in brasil or somewhere, or Tilma of Guadalupe, but unbeliever will always find a way to say it’s fake or science or something.

Miracles I mentioned violates the laws of human nature. Those are the one you need to look into. Spiritual miracles, not physical.

But in the end, no, I dont have an answer to the miracles like you are looking for. Just didn’t research enough. Sorry

Look, I found this funny video why miracles don’t “exist”, at least for everybody:


God bless!
 
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Belief is a choice.
mir·a·cle
  1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.
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So yes unexplained things that end up good are miracles by definition, for those who believe.
Your condition is not a miracle, but a tragedy, or debacle.

Church is the first skeptic when it comes to miracles.
 
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