The question of miracles - Are there convincing miracle cases?

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If i were a non Catholic i’m sorry but i feel they are both poor arguments. First there are many monarchistic institutions that predate the Church, the Japanese emperor would be one of these. As for how can a person be a sinner one day and then completely different the next. Catholicism doesn’t hold a monopoly to that, there are many atheists even he turn away from a sinful lifestyle.
 
Sorry I didn’t understand. Are you Catholic or non Catholic?

Can you give me specifics about that Japanese monarchy? Id like to read about it.

You have double colon at the end of the atheist line. Did you wanna say something more?
You mean atheists turn away from sinful life?
 
Conversions of protestants to catholicism on the basis of miracles should not be a test of the authenticity of catholic miracles. Jesus Christ performed unbelievable wonders and miracles infront of the very people who would kill him later, infront of his very apostles, who almost all abandoned him to his fate during his passion and death. Does that mean all his miracles were fake or all what he was preaching was a lie?
To allow God’s grace to work in someone, the person must create a conducive soil in his/her heart for the seed of grace to sprout and grow healthily…that space is created by good will and humility . If a man does not have these things, even if he could see angels with wings descend from above with trumpets, changing on their way down the color of the sky from blue to pink, and at thesame time see an amputated man having his limbs miraculously grow back infront of his very eyes, if this man is full of pride that what he has till now believed is absolutely true, if this man has no intention considering that he could be wrong, if he does not have enough good will to accept that even without such miracles, God is still God and the truth is still the truth, then I assure you he wont believe. In fact he will prefer to think someone is playing him a prank or he is on some recreational drugs than to accept the very truth infront of his eyes.
 
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The fact that you are here, visiting this forum looking for answers despite your disbelief and clear skepticism may not be the clinical definition of a miracle but it should be a sign to you that God is asking you to open your heart. Personally, I believe that to be miraculous ❤️
 
In Chapter five of THE SHROUD OF TURIN, FIRST CENTURY AFTER CHRIST ! Prof Fanti devotes 20 pages to researching the differences that can be observed between ancient and medieval flax threads based on the relevant processing methods.

Pg. 174
In ancient times it might take several strokes of the stems because the technique used to extract the fibers was overall more rudimentary and less efficient, so much more laborious than the manual ones of a few centuries ago or those in which special machines are used. This fact is probably one of the reasons that justify a particular feature of the Shroud’s fibers: being distinguishable, under special lighting conditions, from flax fibers coming from more recent fabrics !

Pg. 181-182
The Shroud fibers are easily recognizable under an optical microscope if they are observed in cross-polarized light through an appropriate petrographic microscope.. … As can be seen in Fig 5.10, while recent flax fibers show a multicolored coloring, but with a prevailing direction that is parallel to the fiber axis, those coming from the Shroud have a coloring quite orthoganal to the fiber axis instead, comparable to the staining of a coral snake.

Pg. 190-191
Figure 6.1 Dr. Orit Shamir, director of the Israel Antiquities of Jerusalem, while she exposes some samples of ancient fabrics to the first author for the choice of some fragments.
Figure 6.2 Some recent and ancient flax samples with a known dating method used for the calibration of alternative dating methods.
 
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jan10000 said:
I disagree because no one denies illusions are real. Our senses can be tricked. If you and I were in a desert, and I claim to see water, in what way is that “miraculous”? There is no water. Period. No laws of physics were violated. “Miraculous illusion” is an oxymoron. I really don;t see how this can be argued. If YOU claim to see water in a desert, I certainly won’t dispute that. But it’s all in your head. It’s not a miracle.
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It looks like you answered without understanding my argument, for in response to this I can just repeat my previous post.

So, why don’t you try to tell me in your own words: what argument did I make?
jan10000 said:
Or try yourself - just yawn in a crowded room or go see a local college hypnotism show. In Africa they have mass “laughing” delusions.
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So, by “delusion” you mean something other than other people.

Wikipedia defines it so (Delusion - Wikipedia): “A delusion is a firm and fixed belief based on inadequate grounds not amenable to rational argument or evidence to contrary, not in sync with regional, cultural and educational background. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or some other misleading effects of perception.”.

Yawning or laughing is not a belief, therefore, they can’t be delusions.
 
Smepperson said:
The fact that you are here, visiting this forum looking for answers despite your disbelief and clear skepticism may not be the clinical definition of a miracle but it should be a sign to you that God is asking you to open your heart. Personally, I believe that to be miraculous ❤️
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Hopefully, to put a shift to the repetitious - look at me - I’m a non-believer…! 🙂
 
Quite so. Fanti is at some pains to distinguish between modern, mechanically extracted and processed flax fibres, and ancient flax manufacture, which was all carried out by hand. What he does not distinguish between is the processes carried out by hand in the 1st century, and the processes carried out by hand in the 13th century. The reason being, of course, that they are indistinguishable.
 
FiveLinden said:
In my view the Church would be wise to cease all public endorsement of miracles except those (should there be any) that pass very high standards of scientific proof.
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I’d like someone who knows more than me about this to comment. In discussions like this we often hear that “the Church” accepts or endorses or denies or makes some statement about something. One would hope that “the Church’s position” on this or that would be available for the members of the said Church to read, but in fact this turns out to be extremely difficult. The Catechism is available to all, and the pronouncements of the popes, but things like “the public endorsement of miracles” are vanishingly hard to find. A recent example is the 70th Lourdes miracle, which appears to have been “officially declared by Bishop Jacques Benoit-Gonin of Beauvais, France” on 11 February 2018". However, every attempt to find this “official declaration” on an official website has failed. There are several websites listing “Top 10 Astonishing Miracles of the Catholic Church” and “15 Real Catholic Miracles No One Can Explain”, and similar, but not one refers to any formal document by which the curious Catholic can check whether “the Church” has a view on any of them. Does anyone know of any?
 
tomo_pomo said:
Yes I have 2.

First one is external: the Church which exists for 2000 years already. Show me another institution of 2000 years. All of them fall apart because of human greed and pride. True sign that Church is from God.

Second one internal: conversions of sinners. How can a person be a sinner one day then completely different another, praising the God and praying? Only God can do that.

God bless!
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To this one I would like to add another miracle proof of His Glory:
  1. Children saints - who can explain what motivates the children who wants to pray and serve the poor and even not give up their Faith unto the threat of death? Who? Proof that Gift of Faith exists regardless of maturity, regardless of experience, regardless of brain development. It’s obvious work of Holy Spirit who works in eternal and infinite realm!
 
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Hi Hugh,

Can you post an example of the Three Marys with a lid? I haven’t been able to locate one.
 
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I believe this thread has gone a little off track. Now if your looking for recent miracles. There is a woman Daphne Gutierrez who was blind for 17 years in Phoenix Arizona and after asking for St Charbel’s intercession With his relics was completely healed. That happened a few years ago. Some one earlier had an issue with just miracles. I understand this after hearing of the Montanists Heresy of the 2nd or 3rd centuries. That’s where the Catholic Church steps in to investigate evaluate and make a judgment on the miracle.
 
Quite so. There is no evidence for any appropriate loom for weaving large sheets of 3/1 twill before about 1100 at the very earliest. However, it has to be said that the particular weave of the Shroud is not, in fact, matched by any cloth of the Middle Ages, and certainly not any burial cloths. The nearest I can find is painter’s canvas from slightly later than the Shroud, as used by, for example, Titian, although there is a fragment of printed linen of similar weave from about the correct time period in the Victoria and Albert Museum.
 
Hugh_Farey said:
I’d like someone who knows more than me about this to comment. In discussions like this we often hear that “the Church” accepts or endorses or denies or makes some statement about something. One would hope that “the Church’s position” on this or that would be available for the members of the said Church to read, but in fact this turns out to be extremely difficult. The Catechism is available to all, and the pronouncements of the popes, but things like “the public endorsement of miracles” are vanishingly hard to find. A recent example is the 70th Lourdes miracle, which appears to have been “officially declared by Bishop Jacques Benoit-Gonin of Beauvais, France” on 11 February 2018". However, every attempt to find this “official declaration” on an official website has failed. There are several websites listing “Top 10 Astonishing Miracles of the Catholic Church” and “15 Real Catholic Miracles No One Can Explain”, and similar, but not one refers to any formal document by which the curious Catholic can check whether “the Church” has a view on any of them. Does anyone know of any?
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Presumably, it is either the message that bishop reads in video presented in
, or in
.

It is a message by a bishop. There are many of those. It is not surprising that finding a specific one (written in a foreign language) is not very easy.
 
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