The Rapture...

[Atemi]

An even better analogy from scripture is how the crowds ran out from Jerusalem to greet Jesus at the beginning of what we now commemorate as Palm Sunday.

Or how the bride goes out to meet her husband when he comes for her to take her away to his father’s house.

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[Gamera]

Sorry, but you are mistaken.

First of all, the word in question is apantēsis and means to “meet”. That cannot be taken to mean anything other than it says. What follows is not discussed in the text in question, other than that we will thus forever be with the Lord.

I don’t “take it to mean anything other than what it says.” I take it to mean exactly what it says. You are the one interpreting it to mean “take away,” which isn’t what it says at all.

 

[mark_a]

I need a short and sweet answer to “what do catholics believe about the rapture”? I understand about all the milleniums and know that we as Catholics are “amillenial” i would like to be able to answer short and sweet without having to break down the milleniums and give a brief answer…

thanks!

If you wanna take the easy way out by avoiding all that strenuous reading and contemplation, biblechristiansociety.com/ has tons of downloadable stuff of the short and sweet variety.

Here’s one about the rapture:
biblechristiansociety.com/download/mp3/rapture_and_the_bible.mp3

 

[CentralFLJames]

Any of the prior links are probably sufficient to get the idea out. But at some point you are going to have to break through the fundamental reason why these people believe in the rapture - its fear. So you need to ween them off this whole concept eventually.

My own take is:
Given the wide spread confusion extending from the false doctrine of millenarianism the term “rapture” has become so distanced from its original scriptural meaning that it has now become just a buzz-phrase for marketing popular folk-fairytale paperbacks.

Those that believe in the rapture are just trying to rationalize away the clear theological truth that those that are baptised into Christ are baptised both into His suffering and into His glory. There is no way for a Christian to escape suffering on this earth. It is part of our identity with Christ - some more than others. It is through persecution and suffering that the Church has always historically grown.

Look to early church history. The Church was founded on the suffering and sacrifice of Christ and the early Catholic martyrs. The first 56 Popes were proclaimed saints but at the cost of the first 31 of these being martyred for the Faith - as well as 11 of the 12 apostles. From the year 33 to the year 306, there were eleven million Catholics martyred for the Faith. From there the Church has grown exponentially and today there have been 266 Popes in unbroken succession from St. Peter to Pope Benedict XVI. A total of 90 of these have been declared saints. The Church is now re-entering another phase of global persecution - especially in Muslim countries in the Middle East and Africa and even in parts of South America. This is a sure sign that The Church is reentering a new phase of growth since the Church has always grown on the blood of its martyrs and through the sacrifice of individuals suffering for their faith.

No, we are not here to be raptured away into a heavenly bliss to be spared from the personal suffering of the tribulation. Such a perspective flies in the face of proper scripture teaching and the 10s of millions of martyred Catholic saints and laiety who Jesus permitted the high honor of suffering for Him to build His Church. Suffering for Christ is an honor and not something to be afraid of.

There is no “rapture” as most Protestants imagine it. In the end times The Church will be called on again to the ultimate honor to suffer and even to die martyrs for their faith in order to bring the greatest glory to Jesus, The Church and to bring the highest rewards to Her holy individuals. There is no higher reward in heaven than to die a martyr for the faith. So why would anyone expect Jesus to permit the early saints to achieve high honors in heaven as martyrs but in the epoch of His victory before the 2nd coming deny The Church the same high honor by rapturing them away? Nope - not going to happen.

Bottom line: The “rapture” as many Protestants profess and want to believe it is as much a fairytale as is Santa Claus and the jolly elves at Christmas time. It’s a comforting idea for children but is not consistent with Church Teaching, nor scripture nor the patterns of church history.

James

 

[Atemi]

I don’t “take it to mean anything other than what it says.” I take it to mean exactly what it says. You are the one interpreting it to mean “take away,” which isn’t what it says at all.

It seems you have not been reading my posts, or you would never have said I interpreted this Scripture to mean any such thing.

As I said, and it remains the truth, the Rapture is simply the resurrection of the church. That is it. When that happens is what is debatable, not if it happens.

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[Atemi]

Bottom line: The “rapture” as many Protestants profess and want to believe it is as much a fairytale as is Santa Claus and the jolly elves at Christmas time.

This kind of post makes one wonder what Catholics would think if a Protestant came here and said this same thing of the Eucharist.

Would that mockery of the belief of others be considered charitable here on CA and by the Catholics here?

Why expect behavior from others that one does not even expect from themself?

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[Gamera]

This kind of post makes one wonder what Catholics would think if a Protestant came here and said this same thing of the Eucharist.

Would that mockery of the belief of others be considered charitable here on CA and by the Catholics here?

Why expect behavior from others that one does not even expect from themself?

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You’re right. It’s one thing to disagree, another thing to mock.

 

[mark_a]

Are most folks that believe there will be a rapture hoping for it within their lifetime? Otherwise, I don’t understand what all the hoopla is.

Every person that I’ve ever heard refer to the rapture in general conversation did so with an I-told-you-so attitude, as in: “I wish the rapture would come and take me away from all these heathens!”

Where is the message of hope for all mankind in rapture theology?

 

[CentralFLJames]

(Edited) So, let’s say it another way to be objective and sensitive to the fact that not everyone is going to heaven; and to the reality that in spite of Catholic Church Teaching Authority warning the world of the errors in pop-fiction novels promoting John Darby styled millenarianistic-rapture fantasies that some new Protestant sub-sects have split off from reformist theology and nonetheless remain committed to following gravely deficient teaching and faiths to the terminal extent of their eternal logical conclusion.

Replace the text with:
‘The idea of a personal millenarianism based rapture is a new modernist teaching “tradition of man” coming out of some breakaway protestant sects and personal reinterpretation from the laity that no one in the early Catholic Church nor Luther’s reformers ever believed; nor does it derive from any generally accepted theological scholarship nor pedigree and is utterly rejected by the Catholic Church as complete error. Just as The Catholic Church has always rejected all heresies and other theological errors she has also always rejected such myths as “Santa Claus and the Elves” as little more than humanistic and pagan re-interpretations of major Christian themes and feast days as predictable artifacts of the cascading error of heresy.’

Better?

James

 

[Atemi]

Are most folks that believe there will be a rapture hoping for it within their lifetime?

When do you hope Christ will return for His church?

Otherwise, I don’t understand what all the hoopla is.

You do not understand the “hoopla” about the resurrection of the church???

Lord have mercy.

Every person that I’ve ever heard refer to the rapture in general conversation did so with an I-told-you-so attitude, as in: “I wish the rapture would come and take me away from all these heathens!”

I have never, ever heard that.

Interesting.

It may be who we are both hanging around with.

Where is the message of hope for all mankind in rapture theology?

The hope of the rapture is for the church and for God’s people, not for mankind.

Mankind in general could care less about Christ coming for His church. The hope for mankind is the Gospel and their repentance from sin. Then they can find hope in resurrection.

Until then, resurrection for the unrepentant sinner is nothing to look forward to, to say the least.

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[Muzhik]

I need a short and sweet answer to “what do catholics believe about the rapture”? I understand about all the milleniums and know that we as Catholics are “amillenial” i would like to be able to answer short and sweet without having to break down the milleniums and give a brief answer…

thanks!

I’ve had protestant friends almost come to blows arguing over a pre-trib (pre-tribulation) or post-trib (post-tribulation rapture) I tell my protestant friends that the Catholic Church isn’t pre-trib or post-trib, we’re pan-trib: it will all pan out in the end!

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[Fidelis]

Quote:
Every person that I’ve ever heard refer to the rapture in general conversation did so with an I-told-you-so attitude, as in: “I wish the rapture would come and take me away from all these heathens!”

I also have heard this numerous times from “rapture” believers, though usually in not so crass terms. Usually it’s when we’ve been discussing some awful thing someone did to them or someone else or about the wicked trends in society in general. they’ll wind up with something like, “Well, I’ll sure be glad when the Lord comes for us and takes us away from all of this. Then they’ll see. Then they’ll be sorry!”

 

[mark_a]

When do you hope Christ will return for His church?

I’m a Catholic, so I’m hoping its on the last day.

You do not understand the “hoopla” about the resurrection of the church???
Lord have mercy.

No, I don’t understand the obsession. I don’t understand why rapture folks use the rapture almost exclusively as a scare tactic.

I have never, ever heard that.

Interesting.

It may be who we are both hanging around with.

Possibly. I have pretty much associated with folks in the upper lower class or lower middle class, (low to mid income level), of various religious backgroud. The rapturists, at least in my experience, seem to have an irritated outlook on life.

I’m sure they don’t speak for the UMC rapturists.

The hope of the rapture is for the church and for God’s people, not for mankind.

That’s exactly the attitude I spoke of in my first post.

 

[Catholic_JIMMY]

I need a short and sweet answer to “what do catholics believe about the rapture”? I understand about all the milleniums and know that we as Catholics are “amillenial” i would like to be able to answer short and sweet without having to break down the milleniums and give a brief answer…

thanks!

As far as I know Catholics do not believe in the Rapture. All of us Christians are going to suffer like everyone else in the world. We just have to pray to Yeshua Messiah (Jesus Christ) to save our collective hides.

 

[Church_Militant]

Are most folks that believe there will be a rapture hoping for it within their lifetime? Otherwise, I don’t understand what all the hoopla is.

Every person that I’ve ever heard refer to the rapture in general conversation did so with an I-told-you-so attitude, as in: “I wish the rapture would come and take me away from all these heathens!”

Where is the message of hope for all mankind in rapture theology?

A good point Mark. I still think that that whole modern new wind of doctrine, (Remember that this is a VERY modern novelty that only came into being in the early 1800s when Church of Ireland preacher John Nelson Darby concocted it to try to scare Irish Catholics out of their faith when persecutions didn’t work. It was not even much known or accepted here in the U.S. until C.I. Scofield included it in his “Reference Bible” in 1909. There is no record of any ECFs teaching it.) is really just a sort of emotional security blanket that allows it’s adherents to console themselves with a false belief that Jesus is going to provide an “escape pod” (so to speak) for believers to preserve them from enduring the tribulations to come. I believe it feeds on fear.

And… it concerns me that their faith may possibly collapse if they discover that it is not true and that tribulations are upon us all.http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/badday.gif

John Martignoni’s EXCELLENT MP3 Bible study (Linked posted above) on this is, (in IMO), one of the best responses to it anywhere. CA’s articles refuting it are also very good too.

Personally, I think the believers of about the first 3 centuries of the Christian faith are deeply saddened that so many modern Christians “heap to themselves teachers having itching ears” (2nd Timothy 4:3-4) to buy into an unscriptural teaching and embrace less courage than they showed in their lives. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/emo-epicfail.png