The Rapture?

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bibleapologist said:
It is the danger of expecting the return of Christ from a Post-millennial, or amillennial / preterist viewpoint that worries me. Again, those saved people who believe these scenarios will not be personally effected… but the unsaved will, and those saved people who are teaching these millennial views are contributing to Satan’s conspiracy to have himself worshipped. Those who are not saved, and are not taken up in the rapture will have the perfect mindest to affectionately embrace the Antichrist… because they are expecting Christ to reign in the temple.
Where in the Bible much less in Catholic Teaching does it say that us Catholics are to expect Christ to return and show up in the Temple? Where is that? IT’S NOT THERE!!! Dude, you’re making this up aren’t you? We believe that He will come again in Glory and in the Clouds of Heaven…the SAME WAY He left! What part of this are you not getting? Christ reigning in the temple?
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Here’s the irony of the rapture “theology.” Some believe such an event will occur before the Tribulation, and yet there is nothing to indicate that in the Bible. Yet, many of those who believe that will attack the Catholic Church for beliefs they can’t find in the Bible.

Basically, they do something they accuse the Catholic Church of doing…going extrabiblical.
 
bibleapologist said:
frnate,
those saved people who are teaching these millennial views are contributing to Satan’s conspiracy to have himself worshipped.

A-Millennialism, and Post-Millennialism are both devices of Satan to have the unsaved world accept him
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So again, what I’m getting (some of this is by inference so please correct me if I’m wrong) is that:
  1. Anyone who doesn’t believe what Darby and Scofield taught are un-witting tools of Satan.
  2. Satan’s most effective tools belong to him only.
  3. Since the vast majority of the people on this board fit category number 1, there is a great "field white unto harvest’ here.
    Having been raised in the Independant Baptist Church, I already knew that you probably believed this and thus would eventually shed some light on your true motive for being on this board. (Again, correct me if I’m wrong.) Please don’t misunderstand me. My days as a Protestant were spent quite zealously. When I believed as you do I probably would have done the same. There is nothing wrong with a sincere desire to evangelize the lost. It is our great commission to do so. To try and evangelize the saved because you and those before you either neglected proper scholarship or simply have an axe to grind out of malice is unseemly in the Body of Christ. I’m assuming you don’t have an axe to grind so that leaves scholarship. My challenge to you is to put your fervor to evangelize us on the back burner for a week or two or even a month or two (we’ll still be here when you get back)😉 and then honestly research the history of the Church. I highly recommend Justo Gonzalez or Chadwick or even Pelikan. Although Gonzalez is by far the most readable IMHO. Then itemize the theology and doctrine passed down to you from your fathers and examine them, one by one, in the light of your own research.
bibleapologist said:
None at all (except the word “thousand”), For God to claim He owns the cattle on a “thousand” hillsides is to mean ‘all the cattle’ in the whole world… no one can deny that. But to say Rev. 20 John is using the word “thousand” the same way as if to mean “forever” or “for all time” is a faulty interpretation… verse 2 says that Satan is bound for a “thousand” years… but he, as presently, has been active according to historical accounts and according to scripture. So the term “thousand” should not be confused as meaning “forever” or “for all time”.
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My point is that since both poetic and apocolyptic literature are written figuratively, both instances refer to a quantity greater than merely 1,000.

Peace,
+Nathan
 
My favorite bumper sicker :

IF you get raptured, can I have your car ??? or house ??
 
No one knows the time or day when the end will come. The whole rapture thing is pretty big among evangelicals, and they manage to use it as a Catholic bashing club to fuel their hatred of the Catholic Church.

Many claim the antichrist will align with the Pope to subvert the Church, but the thing is anything is possible except this, because Christ has already told us the even the gates of Hell shall not prevail against His Church.

Catholics don’t pay much attention to the end times, except to warn folks to be ready at all times. Our own deaths could happen at any time without any warning, so being prepared is a natural thing anyway. No one wants to have to go through the horrible things mentioned in Revelations, but to worry about such things is pointless. It has not happened in almost 2000 years and who is to say it will not happen in the next 2000 years or the next 20,000 years.

And even IF it does come about in our lifetime, so what ??? Do I suddenly abandon a Church that I know is bride of Christ to join some denomination that has one of several thousand interpretations of scriptures ??? Which church do I turn to ??? Do I suddenly reject the actual Body and Blood of Christ to partake in a symbolic ceremony that only mimics the example of Christ ?

IF Revelations is about to happen in the next few years, I want to stay put, continue receiving the sacraments, and if there is a rapture, I will either get snatched up or I will be driving your car or living in your house the next day. 😛
 
When confronted with those preaching the rapture theology, I ask them a series of simple questions.
  1. God is the same as he as always been, correct?
    (Here they would of course need to answer yes)
  2. After the flood, who was left behind?
    (Noah and his family)
  3. After Sodom and Gomorrah, who was left behind.
    (Lot and his family, except his wife)
  4. So if God is the same as he has always been, and after major events in the bible, the righteous were the ones left behind, if there some event brought on by God where people are taken away, who will be left behind?
I then leave them to think about it.
 
gelsbern said:
When confronted with those preaching the rapture theology, I ask them a series of simple questions.
  1. God is the same as he as always been, correct?
    (Here they would of course need to answer yes)
  2. After the flood, who was left behind?
    (Noah and his family)
  3. After Sodom and Gomorrah, who was left behind.
    (Lot and his family, except his wife)
  4. So if God is the same as he has always been, and after major events in the bible, the righteous were the ones left behind, if there some event brought on by God where people are taken away, who will be left behind?
I then leave them to think about it.
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Good one! 👍
 
gelsbern said:
When confronted with those preaching the rapture theology, I ask them a series of simple questions.
  1. God is the same as he as always been, correct?
    (Here they would of course need to answer yes)
  2. After the flood, who was left behind?
    (Noah and his family)
  3. After Sodom and Gomorrah, who was left behind.
    (Lot and his family, except his wife)
  4. So if God is the same as he has always been, and after major events in the bible, the righteous were the ones left behind, if there some event brought on by God where people are taken away, who will be left behind?
I then leave them to think about it.
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AND . . . 3 times in John 6 Jesus says he will raise up those who have eternal life “at the last day.” Which “last” day would that be?
 
According to those who hold the Rapture view, there seem to be not one, not two, but THREE last days!

Last Day #1- The Rapture of all believing Christians and the ressurection of those who died between Pentecost and then.

Last Day #2- The “Glorious Appearing” of Christ at the end of the Tribulation period. The ressurection of the martyred Tribulation saints. The judgement of the nations.

Last Day #3- The White Throne Judgement of Christ where the rest of the dead from all ages or “economies” (according to the pro-rapture people) are raised and judged, including those who died a natural death during the Millenial Reign. (Supposedly, the Tribulation Christians…those who became christian AFTER the Rapture, and survived the Tribulation to populate the Millenial Kingdom).

You figured if this were true, there would be more emphasis on last daySSSSSS…

So…there you have it…pick a last day…any last day…
P7
 
Pryority7 said:
According to those who hold the Rapture view, there seem to be not one, not two, but THREE last days!

Last Day #1- The Rapture of all believing Christians and the ressurection of those who died between Pentecost and then.

Last Day #2- The “Glorious Appearing” of Christ at the end of the Tribulation period. The ressurection of the martyred Tribulation saints. The judgement of the nations.

Last Day #3- The White Throne Judgement of Christ where the rest of the dead from all ages or “economies” (according to the pro-rapture people) are raised and judged, including those who died a natural death during the Millenial Reign. (Supposedly, the Tribulation Christians…those who became christian AFTER the Rapture, and survived the Tribulation to populate the Millenial Kingdom).

You figured if this were true, there would be more emphasis on last daySSSSSS…

So…there you have it…pick a last day…any last day…
P7
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Well, the only “last” day I’m worried about is the one that will be coming to me – tomorrow? next month? next year? in a decade or two? Whenever: that’s the one I want to be ready for.

As Fr. Mitch Pacwa says of all this end times stuff: You don’t have to study for it, it isn’t going to be on the test!
 
Pryority7 said:
According to those who hold the Rapture view, there seem to be not one, not two, but THREE last days!

Last Day #1- The Rapture of all believing Christians and the ressurection of those who died between Pentecost and then.

Last Day #2- The “Glorious Appearing” of Christ at the end of the Tribulation period. The ressurection of the martyred Tribulation saints. The judgement of the nations.

Last Day #3- The White Throne Judgement of Christ where the rest of the dead from all ages or “economies” (according to the pro-rapture people) are raised and judged, including those who died a natural death during the Millenial Reign. (Supposedly, the Tribulation Christians…those who became christian AFTER the Rapture, and survived the Tribulation to populate the Millenial Kingdom).

You figured if this were true, there would be more emphasis on last daySSSSSS…

So…there you have it…pick a last day…any last day…
P7
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I see you’re from the Bronx. So for the Tigers, the Tribulation started last night in Yankee Statium, huh?
 
gelsbern said:
When confronted with those preaching the rapture theology, I ask them a series of simple questions.
  1. God is the same as he as always been, correct?
    (Here they would of course need to answer yes)
  2. After the flood, who was left behind?
    (Noah and his family)
  3. After Sodom and Gomorrah, who was left behind.
    (Lot and his family, except his wife)
  4. So if God is the same as he has always been, and after major events in the bible, the righteous were the ones left behind, if there some event brought on by God where people are taken away, who will be left behind?
I then leave them to think about it.
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Hi,
Interesting point. Im sure some bible scholar can come back at ya with an answer though. Anyway, that would not be me. I am an evangelical christian and my church does believe in the rapture. My sister is also an evangelical christian and she does not believe in the rapture but she hopes for it. I have not studied the subject enough to be convinced either way. All I have to say is to be right with God and it wont matter because you will be going to heaven anyway.😃
Accept Jesus Christ today and start living a righteous life and be more Christ-like.
Im sure all of you would agree.😃
 
LittleDeb said:
I second, (or third, or fourth) the vote for John Martignoni’s talk on the rapture. My Evangelical friend heard that one and really started to listen to the Truth taught by the Catholic Church. biblechristiansociety.com/account/download?return=%2Fdownload%2Fmp3%2Frapture_and_the_bible.mp3 My link is too long because I couldn’t understand RyanL’s instructions. :o

Anyone who has heard Martignoni’s talk will understand my friend’s comment while listening to it. “All right I get it! ‘On the LAST DAY!’” 😃
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Thanks very greatly for this excellent link!
 
ALLFORHIM said:
All I have to say is to be right with God and it wont matter because you will be going to heaven anyway.😃
Accept Jesus Christ today and start living a righteous life and be more Christ-like.
Im sure all of you would agree.😃
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I believe this is what our parish priest stated this morning. Live a right life with God, and don’t worry about the details, because you won’t have to.
 
NotWorthy said:
I think John Martignoni says it best:

"In case of Rapture, I hope to be left behind!!!"
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Hi,
What:bigyikes: If the rapture is true why would you want to be left behind? I dont get the logic or illogic.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,
What:bigyikes: If the rapture is true why would you want to be left behind? I dont get the logic or illogic.
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Well, in the United States of America, all the secular humanists would get what they want: The seperation of Church and State. We do not have to deal with creationists trying to indoctrinate the minds of children in the school system when they are all raptured away :).
 
ribozyme said:
Well, in the United States of America, all the secular humanists would get what they want: The seperation of Church and State. We do not have to deal with creationists trying to indoctrinate the minds of children in the school system when they are all raptured away :).
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Red herring.
 
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