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ALLFORHIM
Guest
I think you can turn off the e-mail option if you go into edit your profile:thumbsup:
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mercygate
Guest
Query to the OP:
If you were a bishop, how would YOU solve the problem of dissent in the Church?
We actually HAVE a body of authentic teaching to start from. Many dissent. You’re the guy in the pointy hat (bishop’s mitre) and you’ve just been appointed to a diocese with a lot of problems:
Formal dissent – both organized and private;
Liturgical abuse;
Poor teaching in Catholic schools and CCD programs;
Two Priests accused (whether justly or otherwise) of sexual misconduct;
A stack of pending cases over in the tribunal;
Fourteen guys coming to you to discern their vocation to prieshood and religious life;
A group of women want to start a new Religious community for older women in your diocese
Two convents closing because of no vocations;
20% of your parishes are in a part of the diocese with a declining Catholic population and must be closed.
Given that you are a faithful bishop with a passionate zeal for the Gospel and for the Church, where would YOU start?
If you were a bishop, how would YOU solve the problem of dissent in the Church?
We actually HAVE a body of authentic teaching to start from. Many dissent. You’re the guy in the pointy hat (bishop’s mitre) and you’ve just been appointed to a diocese with a lot of problems:
Formal dissent – both organized and private;
Liturgical abuse;
Poor teaching in Catholic schools and CCD programs;
Two Priests accused (whether justly or otherwise) of sexual misconduct;
A stack of pending cases over in the tribunal;
Fourteen guys coming to you to discern their vocation to prieshood and religious life;
A group of women want to start a new Religious community for older women in your diocese
Two convents closing because of no vocations;
20% of your parishes are in a part of the diocese with a declining Catholic population and must be closed.
Given that you are a faithful bishop with a passionate zeal for the Gospel and for the Church, where would YOU start?
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slo2lurn
Guest
allforhim. thank you… I hope i got it. poor eyesight poor typing skills and a tiny screen make it hard to find
i have to go, good bye and many thanks again maybe see you all next week
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Church_Militant
Guest
I have PMd him the steps to stop that subscription feature. Needless to say… I used a big font.
Bless his heart.
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Teflon93
Guest
I’d start with catechesis. Strong catechesis for children and adults prevents many of the other problems.
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Atemi
Guest
The problem is that all Roman Catholic claims to doctrinal unity are erroneous and false. It does not exist.
That is a very serious problem.
Please post where I said any such thing at all and then we can move on. Until then, you stand corrected. I never said any such thing.
…
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Church_Militant
Guest
are erroneous and false. It does not exist.
That is a very serious problem.It would be if what you have asserted was true…
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Contarini
Guest
Yet that doctrine is there. Furthermore, you overemphasize the importance of doctrine and underemphasize the importance of bonds of charity. If you talk to these liberals that bother you so much, you will find that they are very worried about the Vatican clamping down on them. Why are they worried? Because in the end they care about being in communion with Rome, part of the Catholic Church. Liberal Episcopalians don’t care what conservative Christians think about them, and they have no reason to. They can go their own way, unrestrained.
Contrary to what you claim, dissenting views in Catholicism are disciplined. These days, this is done in a pretty restrained way. but it is done. You complain because it isn’t totally efficient–but others complain that the Church is too centralized and oppressive. The poor Catholics can’t please everybody!
Edwin
po18guy
Well-known member
Please search the thread: Should liberals leave the church.One of the main selling points of the RCC is the claim to be one unified universal church of all the same doctrine and faith. Yet the more I become familiar with the RCC, the more I find it to be almost exactly as protestants with independant local churches all different from one another in doctrine and practice. The centralised body of the RCC is either unwilling or unable to rain in catholics who flagrantly reject core RCC doctrine.
Considder how many catholics openly reject central church teaching on Christian essentials. How many gay rights rallies have practicing priests paticipating? There are organizations of practicing catholics for ordaining women. The majority of catholics use contraception or openly approve it in full unity with Rome. How many Catholics are members of Amnesty international, NOW, NARAL, Planned Parenthood, or other pro-Abortion groups? How many RC politicians continue to ensure the legality of abortion? None of these people are ever rained in or removed by the supposed authority of the RCC.
More personally I had become interested in the RCC because of more study of the early church. My wife had asked me to arrange a RC Priest to visit and explain their church to our family. I have spoken to three different catholic churches and found none are the same. Specifically, I recently had a long talk with a deacon who informed they would be happy to meet with me, but that I would probably not be interested in their church because of my more conservative church history (coming from evangelical churches) and their more “progressive” theology. I asked what that meant and was told that RC’s are accountable to their conscience as much as doctrine (they had no problem with contraception for instance).
With the unrestrained variety within the RCC, at one point is it simply multiple denominations with one name?
Do you expect total obedience from over one Billion members? Look not at the behavior of church members, but to the truth it teaches. If we apply your standard, Christianity was doomed because of Judas, the traitor. That didn’t stop the eleven from continuiing to teach the truth.
There is obedience and there is disobedience. The VAST majority of Catholics choose obedience. Pray that the Bishops have the fortitude to rein in the dissidents. Remember the parable of the sower? (Mark 4:1-9) The parable of the weeds among the wheat (Matthew 13:24-30) also instructs here. Christ taught them for a reason.
Please prayerfully consider the parables.
Christ’s peace be with you.
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Kay_Cee
Guest
I admit to not having read this entire thread (yet), but I simply googled the name of my diocese, added the word “excommunication” and came up with this:
romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/2005/12/heresy_tribunal.html
So I would have to say some of these people are indeed reined in and removed by the authority of the Roman Catholic Church.
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DB_AND_ALI
Guest
I think it is most unkind to call anybody a name like ‘cafeteria Catholic’…is a so-called ’ Cafeteria catholic ’ someone who loves Jesus , goes to mass as often as possible YET still finds disagreement with some of the minor dogmas/doctrines of the church ? EG. Priestly celibacy ! Well then you may be surprised to learn that there are many , many millions of ordinary folks , very active in the church , who are ’ cafeteria Catholics ! ’ Get with it and understand that we are all at different stages on our spiritual journey…rather pray for folks to become more Christ-like !
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DanB
Guest
Well, you are quasi right, we all have our opinions. Think of your family, that’s considering you had or have one, with more the 1 person in it. I’m sure you and they did not always agree on everything. We are all creatures of various backgrounds and experiences, even in the same house. So, anyway we’re still family, even if don’t agree. However, the powers that be Mom & Dad still maintain the rules.
I know that is kind of an oversimplification, but those you consciously act outside the Church should be excommunicated.
I often wonder why Catholics who reject the teachings, think they need to stay around and continue to be an annoyance? If they were just flies, I’d be swatting them!
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Tomster
Guest
On the one hand you say it is most unkind to call anyone a ‘cafeteria Catholic’ and then say there are many, many millions of cafeteria Catholics active in the Church. Please unravel this for me and state where you get your statistics.
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Tomster
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BTW, which minor dogmas and doctrines are you referring to?
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GandalfTheWhite
Guest
Well, you could call them heretics. Picking and choosing what to believe? That’s what heresy is all about!
Well, directly calling people like that might not be very kind (like name calling) but generally I don’t find this unkind. Not at all. It comes from the quote: Cafeteria is closed ( or was it the other way?
).Cafeteria Catholic is generally someone who refers to himself as Catholic but chooses what believes to like and to accept and what believes to throw away. Such people for example use condoms, are pro-life, support the idea of priestesses etc.
Now, it’s hard to determine whether they really love Jesus. I guess it depends on their level of ignorance but I think many are simply blinded by their sin and CHOOSE to believe something else because they simply want to.
Minor dogmas and doctrines? There is no such thing.
I don’t think that objecting to priestly celibacy makes you a cafeteria catholic. Priestly celibacy is simply a disciple (but a pretty good one).
Yes, there are many heretics in the Church. Some of them are active as well. I’m not surprised. I was discussing with this girl who was quite active yet was pro-choice, supported contraception, believed in female “priesthood” and much more. It was very scary.
I agree. We do not condemn these people and praying for them is certainly a good thing.
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FrankLawrence
Guest
A cafeteria Catholic is someone who in full knowledge of official Church teachings lives in open unrepentant wanton rebellion to one or more of those official Church teachings, yet still wants to retain the label, “Catholic.” It is NOT someone who feels that a small t. tradition should be changed, provided that such person neither personally acts in open rebellion to such tradition, nor encourages or leads others to unsubmissive rebellion against it. When we give ourselves to Christ, we need to do so as OBEDIENT servants, not merely, “good” servants. Those who strive to be “good” servants are those who are really thinking, “I want to be as sinful as I possibly can, within what would be considered the boundaries of a ‘good’ Catholic.” An obedient servant is one who would say, “I am the servant of the Lord. Let it be done to me as you say.”
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Nordar
Guest
What are the minor Dogmas?
Where do you get your stats for many many millions of cafeteria Catholics?
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SFLCatholic
Guest
You are so far off on your argument its scary.
You are pre-supposing that people are perfect. That’s not the point of doctrine.
And by assuming such, even though you don’t enunciate it, you invalidate Jesus’ mission.
There’s a whole other aspect you are missing also. The Mass of the One True Faith. It is the same in any Catholic Church you go in. You will get the same readings on the same day as every other Catholic in the world on that day.
That is the essence of Jesus’ Catholic doctrine. And that has NEVER EVER changed.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Doctrinal unity exists in doctrine. I don’t know what you call reality. Who gets to interpret reality?
That’s extremely persuasive. Where do I sign up?
OK but just for a second. There we stopped. Now we are continuing again.
Perhaps it resides in actual doctrinal unity among Protestants? Um… no.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
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