The re-election of Obama - Another sour fruit of Vatican II?

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Catherine_S said:
Illegal* Immigrants** enter*** a country by** showing** total disrespect towards the** laws** of the country they are entering. It is a** criminal** way of doing things. Which has** automatic** consequences!
They* also*** show great** disrespect**,** callousness**, and a lack of consideration for** those** who respectfully and thoughtfully await their turn while faithfully following the rules and procedures laid out by another country for entry into it and future citizenship.
Walk* softly*** when you speak of hypocrites! If folks** can** and** will** push ahead of even their own people this says quite a bit in regards to their character. It is also about lawlessness. Hard working or not…does God not love those law abiding folks who are waiting in line and doing things the right way.

**
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I don’t know what illegal immigrants you have came across in your life. Not all illegal immigrants come to this country as you just stated as “disrepectful, callaous, and lack of consideration”.
When I said hypocrites, I was talking about the way Romney/Ryan, and ppl that believed that their stance were the right ones, and that voting for Obama was somehow going to doom us. I even stated clearly how ppl believe that b/c you stand against abortion and gay marriages, but on the other hand, you favor the rich, you have a proven track record that your first job will not be to support the middle and lower class, that somehow your stance against abortion and gay marriages is going to be ok.
I mentioned about the lady who gave the two coins. Read Mark 12:38-44 and you see what my point was about being a hypocrite
 
Really!!
Bush got us into this mess! The economy was horrible when he left office!! He claims to be against abortion well why didn’t he change the law to make abortion illegal. It hasn’t been changed in years. We are constantly going off about abortion well please enlighten me as to who is doing something about it… I haven’t found a soul yet. The house is Republican no reason not to change the law yet they haven’t please explain…
 
chero23 said:
I don’t know what illegal immigrants you have came across in your life. Not all illegal immigrants come to this country as you just stated as “disrepectful, callaous, and lack of consideration”.
When I said hypocrites, I was talking about the way Romney/Ryan, and ppl that believed that their stance were the right ones, and that voting for Obama was somehow going to doom us. I even stated clearly how ppl believe that b/c you stand against abortion and gay marriages, but on the other hand, you favor the rich, you have a proven track record that your first job will not be to support the middle and lower class, that somehow your stance against abortion and gay marriages is going to be ok.
I mentioned about the lady who gave the two coins. Read Mark 12:38-44 and you see what my point was about being a hypocrite
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Agree with you totally!! A lot of people voting for the party and not the people.Jesus Christ is for all! My thought process is this. God gave us free will and free choice. Lets look at ourselves first then look at others. You think Jesus doesn’t know the person’s heart. Let God take care of his own take care of yourself.
 
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flutigirl:
Not my quote you got this mixed up.
 
coachdennis said:
aicirt;10011228:
I give up!

I am pro-life! I am not on the fence.

Everyday I give thanks for God’s mercy and that the end of my life, I will be judged by the everloving mercy of my savior. I trust that everyone else will be as well. I put my trust in my savior and thank God that Jesus will be my judge — and not others.

I give up on this thread!
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Coachdennis…go to #8 post where I said that the laity is to evangelize and not depend on the bishops. Weigel is a very knowledgeable Catholic. Look him up. He’s laity and yet in post #24 you asked who he was and if my info came from a bishop. You proved my point. People do not see the laity has having authority. It has to come from the bishops, they must be united and they must speak to the congregations from the pulpit. The laity, the practicing Catholics, will follow if they lead.
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chero23 said:
I don’t know what illegal immigrants you have came across in your life. Not all illegal immigrants come to this country as you just stated as “disrepectful, callaous, and lack of consideration”.
When I said hypocrites, I was talking about the way Romney/Ryan, and ppl that believed that their stance were the right ones, and that voting for Obama was somehow going to doom us. I even stated clearly how ppl believe that b/c you stand against abortion and gay marriages, but on the other hand, you favor the rich, you have a proven track record that your first job will not be to support the middle and lower class, that somehow your stance against abortion and gay marriages is going to be ok.
I mentioned about the lady who gave the two coins. Read Mark 12:38-44 and you see what my point was about being a hypocrite
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Illegal is* illegal**!!*
.
PS… Catholics follow the Teaching Magisterium of their Church!
Abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning, and same-sex “marriage” have been* definitively*** declared by the Church to be objectively and absolutely immoral. As* faithful*** Catholics, we are required to stand against all five and (with only** rare** exceptions) to vote against politicians who** support** any of them.
Those Catholics who voted for** President Obama** made a** huge** mistake. They voted for a politician totally** pro** abortion, a health care system that will force hardship on small businesses and** in turn** this will cause layoffs etc, and for a politician who by his actions has made a direct* attack** against Catholic Church** teaching** with his health care bill. This is a grave threat to religious freedom in the USA
Some may have believed their vote for Obama would be a vote for Social Justice (feeding the poor, health care for all, immigration etc. - 75% of the hispanic vote went to President Obama) but by not heeding the Teaching Magisterium of the Catholic Church these Catholics obviously did not understand what they were doing or and this would be a shame, they did know what they were doing but were hell bent on doing things their** own** way, disregarding Church teaching, and thus will not be surprised by** nor** overly concerned with the serious consequences soon to follow.*
.
Papal nuncio: Catholic division* undermines** religious freedom*
He cited Catholics’ duties to be disciples of Christ, not elements of a* political** or secular ideology. He** lamented** the** fact** that many Catholics are** publicly** supporting “a major political party” that has “intrinsic evils among its basic principles.”*
“There is a divisive strategy at* work** here, an intentional dividing of the Church; through this strategy, the** body** of the **Church **is weakened, and thus the **Church *can be more easily persecuted,” the nuncio said.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/papal-nuncio-catholic-division-undermines-religious-freedom/
 
chero23 said:
I don’t know what illegal immigrants you have came across in your life. Not all illegal immigrants come to this country as you just stated as “disrepectful, callaous, and lack of consideration”.
When I said hypocrites, I was talking about the way Romney/Ryan, and ppl that believed that their stance were the right ones, and that voting for Obama was somehow going to doom us. I even stated clearly how ppl believe that b/c you stand against abortion and gay marriages, but on the other hand, you favor the rich, you have a proven track record that your first job will not be to support the middle and lower class, that somehow your stance against abortion and gay marriages is going to be ok.
I mentioned about the lady who gave the two coins. Read Mark 12:38-44 and you see what my point was about being a hypocrite
Click to expand...
Illegal is* illegal**!!*
*
PS… Catholics follow the Teaching Magisterium of their Church!
Abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning, and same-sex “marriage” have been definitively*** declared by the Church to be objectively and absolutely immoral. As* faithful*** Catholics, we are required to stand against all five and (with only** rare** exceptions) to vote against politicians who** support** any of them.
Those Catholics who voted for** President Obama** made a** huge** mistake. They voted for a politician totally** pro** abortion, a health care system that will force hardship on small businesses and** in turn** this will cause layoffs etc, and for a politician who by his actions has made a direct* attack** against Catholic Church** teaching** with his health care bill. This is a grave threat to religious freedom in the USA
Some may have believed their vote for Obama would be a vote for Social Justice (feeding the poor, health care for all, immigration etc. - 75% of the hispanic vote went to President Obama) but by not heeding the Teaching Magisterium of the Catholic Church these Catholics obviously did not understand what they were doing or and this would be a shame, they did know what they were doing but were hell bent on doing things their** own** way, disregarding Church teaching, and thus will not be surprised by** nor** overly concerned with the serious consequences soon to follow.*
.
Papal nuncio: Catholic division* undermines** religious freedom*
He cited Catholics’ duties to be disciples of Christ, not elements of a* political** or secular ideology. He** lamented** the** fact** that many Catholics are** publicly** supporting “a major political party” that has “intrinsic evils among its basic principles.”*
“There is a divisive strategy at* work** here, an intentional dividing of the Church; through this strategy, the** body** of the **Church **is weakened, and thus the **Church *can be more easily persecuted,” the nuncio said.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/papal-nuncio-catholic-division-undermines-religious-freedom/
 
Catherine S. You mention that illegal is illegal. So why are the Catholic Dioceses in support of illegal immigrants. I don’t recall but I don’t hink your the Lord’s scorekeeper and your allowed to say whether Person X or Y or Z had any right to come to this country. When a person comes to this country, their determined to help their families back home. Now if once they come to this country they become drug dealers, alcoholics, stealers, drink and drive, are abusive spouses, then yes with all means if these individuals are caught they should get sent back. But the majority of these individuals bust their behinds working hard hours for less money that American citizens woulldn’t do.
You mention that those Catholics that voted for Obama made a huge mistake. but let’s look at Facts! I didn’t hear Obama talk about God or use God as a campaign. Let’s talk about some Republican supporters, You never did answer this question, you mentioned that O’Reilly is an independent, but yet on Nov. 7, he was interviewed an he said that “America is not the same, b/c minorities want Pres. Obama giving them stuff”. Now that’s not an idependent Catherine, if he is God Save us from Conservatives. I’m from Texas, we had a guy here a very well known politician down here who I believe in 2006 was thrown out of the House of Representives, b/c he was laundering money, but yet you would hear him speak against abortion and gay marriages. You know who I’m talking about, Tom Delay. Another similar situation was with then Senator George Allen, he too was very conservitive down to bone Evangelical. Do you remember how he lost that election in 2006? The guy that filming him was a minority and George Allen used a word that demeaned him. How about Mitt Romney who in May said that he wasn’t for the 47% that were on food stamps. Now Catherine, as a candidate your running to run the country and whether you like it or not, as a candidate their going to be ppl that you don’t agree with, but the right thing to do is to help them too. Unfortunately theirs no one candidate that really, is really Pro Catholic, not a single one and that’s unfortunate b/c their parties won’t support them.
 
chero23 said:
Catherine S. You mention that illegal is illegal. So why are the Catholic Dioceses in support of illegal immigrants. I don’t recall but I don’t hink your the Lord’s scorekeeper and your allowed to say whether Person X or Y or Z had any right to come to this country. When a person comes to this country, their determined to help their families back home. Now if once they come to this country they become drug dealers, alcoholics, stealers, drink and drive, are abusive spouses, then yes with all means if these individuals are caught they should get sent back. But the majority of these individuals bust their behinds working hard hours for less money that American citizens woulldn’t do.
You mention that those Catholics that voted for Obama made a huge mistake. but let’s look at Facts! I didn’t hear Obama talk about God or use God as a campaign. Let’s talk about some Republican supporters, You never did answer this question,** you mentioned that O’Reilly is an independent**, but yet on Nov. 7, he was interviewed an he
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To begin, had to remove some of your message so I could post mine!
I believe very much in immigration, Chero23, legal immigration!! In terms of the USA, I have believed for* many** years that Hispanic immigrants would be a great** blessing** because they were Catholics 😃 and hard working family people !! Perhaps a misconception on my part in terms of Catholic. I believe that immigration should be legal if it is to be built on solid ground. When one sidesteps the rules of a country before they are even a citizen in that country this is not a good thing! Not good for those who do it (one reason being they are used for jobs that others do not want( as you mention) and often paid poorly etc.) and not good for the country they enter or remain in by illegal means. This is built on untruth, disrespect for law, and insensitivity to those who are doing things the right way (legally) while others are doing things their own way (illegally). Immigrants will always be needed, especially since so many American babies have been aborted* and demographics confirm this to be* true**.*** Immigration is good! That being said, I will now end this conversation on illegal immigration and get back on topic!!My doing!! Sorry!**
I* never** mentioned** OReilly** :nope: Chero23.*
For me, Mitt Rowney was refering to about 47% of Americans now on food stamps in the context* of this being a scandal and a dire necessity for change in America. Economic change. There are so many unemployed and even folks who are doing better by staying on goverment money (which has little to do) with helping folks out until they are on their feet and walking towards the dignity that all human beings deserve. Jobs when they are capable of working would definately be a good start!! *
Am I aware of Catholics that do not follow the Teaching Magisterium of the Church “Yes” but I am more aware of those who do follow it. I am not going to take anyone else’s spiritual inventory because my own keeps me busy enough. God knowes the human heart and he will do the judging in terms of people and where they are in relationship to him the laws of Ceasar, however, I can** comment on 😃 !!
I believe that I am within the Church that Christ founded, I trust the* Teaching Magisterium** of the Church regardless **of how much **bad **has been in the Church throughout her long history. **As I grow older, I am a **firm **believer that all sin ( individual or as a group) has consequences built **right **into it, and we **will ****reap these **consequences *and hopefully come to repentance.
 
chero23 said:
Catherine S. You mention that illegal is illegal. So why are the Catholic Dioceses in support of illegal immigrants. I don’t recall but I don’t hink your the Lord’s scorekeeper and your allowed to say whether Person X or Y or Z had any right to come to this country. When a person comes to this country, their determined to help their families back home. Now if once they come to this country they become drug dealers, alcoholics, stealers, drink and drive, are abusive spouses, then yes with all means if these individuals are caught they should get sent back. But the majority of these individuals bust their behinds working hard hours for less money that American citizens woulldn’t do.
You mention that those Catholics that voted for Obama made a huge mistake. but let’s look at Facts! I didn’t hear Obama talk about God or use God as a campaign. Let’s talk about some Republican supporters, You never did answer this question, you mentioned that O’Reilly is an independent, but yet on Nov. 7, he was interviewed an he said that “America is not the same, b/c minorities want Pres. Obama giving them stuff”. Now that’s not an idependent Catherine, if he is God Save us from Conservatives. I’m from Texas, we had a guy here a very well known politician down here who I believe in 2006 was thrown out of the House of Representives, b/c he was laundering money, but yet you would hear him speak against abortion and gay marriages. You know who I’m talking about, Tom Delay. Another similar situation was with then Senator George Allen, he too was very conservitive down to bone Evangelical. Do you remember how he lost that election in 2006? The guy that filming him was a minority and George Allen used a word that demeaned him. How about Mitt Romney who in May said that he wasn’t for the 47% that were on food stamps. Now Catherine, as a candidate your running to run the country and whether you like it or not, as a candidate their going to be ppl that you don’t agree with, but the right thing to do is to help them too. Unfortunately theirs no one candidate that really, is really Pro Catholic, not a single one and that’s unfortunate b/c their parties won’t support them.
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*Posted you a private message!! *
Back to thread topic…
 
chero23 said:
Zaland, you mention that its unfortunate that Obama won, but lets be tuthful. Romney was not a saint, nor was he a savior. This man was out to defend the rich, and no one can deny that, It’s funny now that i write that b/c yesterday in mass, the last reading was “were the lady only gave two coins, while the rich gave alot”. Idk if anybody remembers that, but then Jesus says,“That lady will be going to heaven b/c although she’s poor, she gave those 2 coins from the bottom of her heart”.
Another thing, I’m hispanic, with alot of family and friends who are here illegally. Yet the republican party who supposedly is “God fearing”, and talks about God all the time, wants these hard qorking ppl, deported back. Now the bible says that God loves each of us, for who we are, Romney and Ryan, as well as the whole Republican Party don’t have that attitude. Here ppl like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O’Reilly. They always talk about how God is letting this country go into ruins, but their stance is that of a hypocrite. I say get your facts straight before you start condemning Obama’s victory, b/c had Romney won, this country would of favored the rich like in George W. Bush’s presidency
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***Dear chero23

Your problem is that you fell for the lies that Obama spread about Romney. Also, does the fact that Obama is radically pro-abortion, and is an accomplice to the murder of the 4.8 million babies who were killed by abortion during his first term as President, and he did nothing to stop it. The Church condemns Obama’s abortion record, and has said that voting for such a person is a grave moral evil. Do these facts concern you?***
 
zeland said:
***Dear chero23

Your problem is that you fell for the lies that Obama spread about Romney. Also, does the fact that Obama is radically pro-abortion, and is an accomplice to the murder of the 4.8 million babies who were killed by abortion during his first term as President, and he did nothing to stop it. The Church condemns Obama’s abortion record, and has said that voting for such a person is a grave moral evil. Do these facts concern you?***
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Let’s not talk about which party lied, that would take years, they both lied. Also you need to be careful where you get your information regarding abortion during the last 4 years, cause I hate to be the one to break it to you but abortion was legal during Bush’s term as well, he did nothing about it either!!!
 
zeland said:
***Dear chero23

Your problem is that you fell for the lies that Obama spread about Romney. Also, does the fact that Obama is radically pro-abortion, and is an accomplice to the murder of the 4.8 million babies who were killed by abortion during his first term as President, and he did nothing to stop it. The Church condemns Obama’s abortion record, and has said that voting for such a person is a grave moral evil. Do these facts concern you?***
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So your telling me Zeland. that Mitt Romney, the same guy who complained about the 47%, and the guy who told his supporters after the elections, that Obama won b/c he’s going to give ppl stuff is accurate. Remember this is a man whose records have been proven to flip flop on many issues.
Tell me another thing, his beliefs was seen as a “Cult”, I believe ppl on the CAF forum have even mentioned that Mormon is a cult. Do you remeber how 2 or 3 wks before the elections Mitt Romney along Billy Graham met and talked together. Remember Billy Graham is one of the biggest Evangelical preachers, in his website he had that Mormonism was a cult, but when they met he said Oh No, their not. Why do you think they did that? Why did Romney go meet Billy Graham? You want to know why, b/c both Men were using religion as bait. Don’t get fooled Bush was the same way. The man was supposedly a huge Christian man, yet while he was Gov. here in Texas there was the biggest number of executions, under his presidency the number of abortions were more than in the presidency of Bill Clinton.
But I know your going to say that can’t be. This man constantly had meeting with Billy Graham, met with Pope Benedict XVI on several occassions, even celebrated his bday at the White House, and Bush held evangelical rallies. Yet you saw what happened under his 8 yrs of presidency.
Look man just b/c I preach about God, or like the Priest at the Cathedral here in Dallas said, Just b/c you have your Bible underneath your arm, doesn’t make you a holy man.
 
Each week, day, hour, minute 100’s of millions of church going Catholics pray “thy will be done”. Why is it that when the result of an election doesn’t go according to “their” will or even the will of the “church” evil must be the answer? Could it not be the case that God’s will is being accomplished, yes even in and through the person of President Obama?
 
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