The real truth about my sex life - HELP

[LongingSoul]

Husband says, "Would you pleeeeeeeeeease have sex with me? "

Oh, wait, I thought you said, “Whine”.

Sorry.

Haha. How can 2 words sound exactly the same and have such opposite effects.

Nope. As a husband of some years, to a wonderful woman with whom we raised three boys (who are 5 years apart in age, so we too had our years of feeling overwhelmed), I can honestly say that “Viagra” for women, is helping her with the housework. Nothing will please her more than going out to do the shopping and coming home to find the vacuuming done, the bathroom cleaned and a load of laundry hanging to dry

Oh that is sweet! You’ve found the key to her heart. But its more than that. You ***wanted ***to find the key rather than guilt trip her into meeting her obligation to you. That’s true genious!

 

[PaulinVA]

Nope. As a husband of some years, to a wonderful woman with whom we raised three boys (who are 5 years apart in age, so we too had our years of feeling overwhelmed), I can honestly say that “Viagra” for women, is helping her with the housework. Nothing will please her more than going out to do the shopping and coming home to find the vacuuming done, the bathroom cleaned and a load of laundry hanging to dry

There was a time my wife would feel intense pressure to have sex with me, because she would think I was expecting a quid pro quo. She doesn’t like to feel pressured to have sex.

I think it’s wrong to think that if you do housework (her job) she will be obligated, or grateful, or even rested enough, to have sex. At least in my case daily active participation is much more natural.

 

[Xantippe]

I think a distinction has to be made between not interested in sex and actively revolted by the idea.

Imagine three situations, using pizza as a stand in for sex.

1. You are hungry and you want pizza.
2. You aren’t hungry, but you might eat pizza if offered.
3. You have the flu or some other condition that causes nausea, and the sight and smell of pizza makes you sick.

I suspect that #2 and #3 require different advice, but that some of the posters in the thread are confusing them. The person in #2 can be urged to eat the pizza with little danger. However, if the person in #3 eats the pizza in a state of nausea, it’s not unlikely that they will be put off pizza for years, if not for life.

 

[OraLabora]

There was a time my wife would feel intense pressure to have sex with me, because she would think I was expecting a quid pro quo. She doesn’t like to feel pressured to have sex.

I think it’s wrong to think that if you do housework (her job) she will be obligated, or grateful, or even rested enough, to have sex. At least in my case daily active participation is much more natural.

I think it’s more that if you empathize with her, and help take a load off her shoulders, she will be less stressed; I agree it shouldn’t be done as a quid pro quo, it should be done because you love her and want to help. In my case I was just guilted into seeing that she was shouldering far more of the burden than I was, and I felt it was my duty to help her. Took me a while to figure it out though. But I have learned that at least in my wife’s case, stress is a deal breaker. I couldn’t always help her with the housework of course, because there are also other things to do on the property, and work only allows so many hours of free time to do them. But she is always happy to see me busy at something, it makes her at least feel the burden was shared. Now again we are in an imbalance because I was forced into early retirement and she still works, so I try to ensure the housework is done (now I have the time; I freelance as a translator so I don’t work full time). Eventually, if she’s not stressed, nature takes its course. It really boils down to creating a family climate that makes her feel secure, loved and cherished as a partner, not an object.

We did have it heavy back when the kids were young. She’s a family doctor and did a lot of on-call and ER work back then. I was traveling internationally for work, and I’d often be gone to Asia for 2 weeks at a time. That meant that both of us were alone with the three small ones a lot of the time, me during her weekend ER shifts or when she was off delivering a baby, and her when I was away on business. Somehow we survived. Our sex lives had its ups and downs back then. Often we’d both be beat at the end of the day. It’s pretty hard to be disposed for sex when dead tired. In my last job, I commuted 3 days a week and it was 3-4 hours of commuting per day. At 56 I found that increasingly tough. One thing about sex, a man can’t fake an erection…

As a couple, we are supposed to help each other out and complement each other. In this particular case I would say that sex isn’t the only way to express intimacy in a couple, and it’s natural if one is very tired to not be “in the mood” as it were. I bet you though the OP would love to be cuddled and touched by her husband, no strings attached. Trust me, it will do a LOT to cement the relationship. Eventually things will turn around; our sex lives have never been better than since we’ve been beyond 50!

I don’t want to make light of the OP’s situation but I saw this funny video (it’s a car ad for a Fiat 500L station wagon) on YouTube, that’s a pretty accurate picture of motherhood. Perhaps a little humour will ease the burden for a few moments:

youtube.com/watch?v=eNVde5HPhYo

 

[PaulinVA]

OraLabora, yeah, the post-menopausal 50s are pretty good.

But, it takes an awful lot of effort to get here successfully. There is light at the end of the tunnel for these people with the little ones. It’s just that when you are there it is really, really hard.

As a guy, I was shocked the first time I realized I really hadn’t wanted sex that week. Then, there was that eight or nine month abstinence period till the menopause thing was resolved.

What doesn’t kill you makes you closer.

 

[UbiCaritas]

The OP has generally described her husband as a good husband and father (other than the fact the he makes her skin crawl). I don’t think extra chores are the answer here. A bit of help/babysitting so the couple can have time to themselves might be helpful though.

So far we have pages of debate and - rightly so - people can see this from both sides.

Yes, I think a low libido is natural post-partum. No, I don’t think what the OP describes is natural (skin crawling, never wanting sex ever again, etc).

Yes, I think husbands should expect and adapt to the need for periods of abstinence in marriage. No, I do no think that should go on for years (eg until the youngest is pre-school age).

I don’t have any concrete suggestions to offer (a skilled counsellor would be better at steering this), but I don’t see any suggestion at either extreme (complete abstinence for years or just suck it up and let husband have his way) as a workable solution.

I think that most of us posting about the extra chores and so on were doing so as a lighthearted diversion to give the OP and us a laugh. The OP has made it clear that her husband is great as far as sharing responsibility and so on go.

 

[Saturn5]

I’ll weigh in here only to confirm the difficulty this places in the marriage. I recognize the OP is not refusing intimacy, but where this can possibly lead if not resolved.

My wife has refused intimacy with me for years, I’m not counting specifically, but I believe we’re now somewhere between year 4 and 5.

All the things the OP descibes is probably something my wife would have described initially. Interestingly enough, she’s never been pregnant, but the “symptoms” if you will, manifested themselves when our kids were around 5 or 6 years old.

Her interest in intimacy began to wane considerable around year 6 of our marriage. The next few years were difficult in I wanted her to be happy and enjoy our intimacy and did whatever I could for her enjoyment (that is still my belief), but she would just grin and bear it. Finally after a few years of this she delivered the “I love you, but I’m not ‘in’ love with you” statement.

My wife grew up watching her father emotionally and verbally abuse her mother. My suspicion is there is more to it than that. Because of watching this growing up, my wife is extremely independent and strong willed and goes to that spot whenever there conflict. The barriers she puts up are high and thick. I beat myself against these barriers for years before realizing that I have to bear a very difficult cross.

Coupled with this, she is menopausal and been experiencing 5-15 extreme hotflashes in a given 24 period for about 3 years. She has been to the doctor numerous times and they just tell her that some women have more difficult experiences than others.

My wife has retreated emotionally to such a degree we rarely talk one on one. She will interact as a family, but rarely as a couple. She doesn’t believe there is anything anyone can do for her either. Because of the dysfunctional marriage she watched growing up, anyone (me, priest, counselor, author, sibling) telling her that her behavior is damaging is rejected immediately.

With all that said, I love my wife tremendously! I will admit it was a difficult first few years, but I love that she helped my faith blossom and my relationship with Christ deepen! I pray for my wife daily and I know in my heart that she will someday find a greater love than she experienced before.

To the OP, you are blessed that you recognize the problem and want to take steps to correct it. It’s a long thread, I’ve been following it, but I don’t recollect a spot where you’ve mentioned if you pray with your husband or not. Do you pray with your husband? My recommendation is take that small step (well, maybe it’s not a small step actually). Pray with your husband daily. Share that spiritual intimacy together with your husband. Pray for each other to have strength and compassion with each other. Let God’s love flow through the two of you and be shared together. He will guide you both and bless you with His grace.

I will pray for you and husband.

 

[henpecked]

male/husband perseptive here:

caveat: maybe I am jaded for being in a sexless marriage for so long and without sex (I could have been a priest/religious to live this way)… but I digress…

sometimes we men have to suck it up and deny the ole sex drive. Self control. Every urge does not have to be satisfied. Just like your body is telling you to take care of the kids you have, he can focus on the same thing - being a dad and helping you.

I cringe at every Viagra commercial on TV - marketing that men need - deserve - to have sex anytime they want well into old age. It’s not always about sex and self gratification.

 

[fpt]

Okay, I totally get I need to figure out why I don’t want to have sex with my husband, who is by and large a very good, helpful and hardworking man. Believe me, I am trying to figure it out.

I am just not sure I need a theologian, philosopher, or a canon lawyer! I don’t even know what I would tell any of those people?

The knowledge of the moral doctrine of marriage, of the marital act and of the conjugal sexuality can be taught you by the catholic theologians, by the catholic philosophers and by the catholic canon lawyers. They have the relevant knowledge in order to help you for the discernment, in the details with all subtleties. They are the helpers, the advisors and the counselors for trying to find the fair solutions. You have rights to be helped for knowing* your own rights, your own obligations and your own duties: the protections of each one, of couple and of the family (liberty and responsibility).*

The information coming from books and from priests are not always enough.

I’ve been to my OB for my annual, and mentioned to her that my sex drive is very low. She said, “Well, you have all those kids, you’re tired, you’re busy, you’re run ragged.” She said that there was nothing physically wrong with me, but that during breastfeeding estrogen is very low, the vaginal tissues atrophy, and the libido decreases. Add that to the normal stress and drudgery of raising a bunch of little kids… She did not think there was anything profoundly “wrong.” She said once my littlest is 3 or 4, and more self-sufficient and less trouble, I would feel better.

And while I do enjoy a massage, a dinner out, a manicure - I’m not sure what I need is an hour or two of relaxation. I feel like I need a couple of weeks to relax on a beach without ANY obligations!

 

[on_the_hill]

I cringe at every Viagra commercial on TV - marketing that men need - deserve - to have sex anytime they want well into old age. It’s not always about sex and self gratification.

True story:
My sister’s friend was a flight attendant on flights between the U.S. and Russia. (what else can you with with a B.A. in Russian? )

She had a hard time with unruly Russian passengers, particularly when it came to enforcing the ban on smoking. One time she told a passenger that he was not allowed to smoke. He shouted, “You Americans have too many rules! And all of your men need Viagra!”

 

[John_Lazarus]

Wait–I thought we weren’t supposed to post porn on CAF? Ah, well, since it’s been permitted thus far, I’ll add to the above scenario: also, the kids have been fed/brushed/bathed/pottied and put to bed.

If I have any kids, they won’t need to be “fed/brushed/bathed/pottied and put to bed”: I’m thinking…

…FREE RANGE!

Just kidding.

I can offer no advice here, except I’ll pray for the OP…and the rest of you, too, for your particular crosses.

 

[Xantippe]

If I have any kids, they won’t need to be “fed/brushed/bathed/pottied and put to bed”: I’m thinking…

…FREE RANGE!

Just kidding.

I can offer no advice here, except I’ll pray for the OP…and the rest of you, too, for your particular crosses.

That process is essential if the mommy and daddy are going to be able to settle down on the sofa at a reasonable hour with fancy ice cream and the latest BBC import.

Best time of the day.

 

[Frances09]

Other than that, I think that you both have to be understanding of each other. He needs to give you some space and be understanding of how overwhelmed you are, but you also need to try to find ways to make time for him, even if not as often as he would like. (I think he also needs to be understanding of the times when you do make time for him but don’t enjoy it. He needs to understand that just the fact that you are willing to do something which you have less than no desire to do is a very loving act on your part, and that it is the best he can expect right now.)

This right here is excellent feedback. I went through a similar thing with my husband postpartum. He had this mental block where he didn’t want to have sex unless I was super interested in it. Otherwise he felt like he was asking me to something I didn’t want to. Yet he still wanted sex (what felt like) all the time. You can imagine how that went with a nursing baby! We reached the point where I just had to explain that there was zero desire due to nursing. It’s either accept that my interest is in loving him and that might mean sex when I’m not keen on it or no sex at all.

 

[Uncle_Frank]

Forgive me for being cynical but I really struggle with many of the posts in this thread. I also just finished reading a similar forum thread on NFP and “safe days” that I found equally disheartening. As a cradle catholic and NFP practitioner with six kids under 12, my wife and I feel we are at a point where we can no longer prudently afford another child. So we are being more strict about NFP. I must say it is very different than laid out in my preCana course. Somehow they told us there was a safe window of 2.5-3 weeks. Well…in reality it may be closer to one week!?! So I am doing my research and I stumble on this thread. And the message I get it “I guess your ole body is just telling you it is not time for a baby…” or “it’s OK to take some time off…like several YEARS!?!” I read what I see as tragic stories about couples who have not had sex for years and have learned to “accept it”…
ARE YOU ALL CRAZY??? Seriously??? When I read the OP’s post my first response is there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with her. I am sure it most likely stems from a problem on both sides. But it is a serious problem that needs attention…counseling…medical help…pharmaceutical help…for God’s sake, do something! How dare you all tell the OP “Aw shucks…I guess it’s all right…ya know…” No it is not. And please don’t obfuscate with some argument about nursing means you don’t want sex. Really? My wife has nursed six children and she often wants sex more than I do. I am so frustrated with Catholics who live in doldrums and drudgery and then try to write it off as “our cross” or “following the rules.” Do we honestly think a loving God, who created our BODIES and our sex drive, wants that kinds of existence for us? That’s a load of hooey. Worse yet, I believe it to be a lie of the devil himself. I am praying for ALL of you and for the OP. God created us (and our drives) and the are GOOD. The dance of intimacy between a man and a woman in marital union is beautiful–and reflects God’s glory and the interrelationship between the three persons of the Trinity. Don’t write it off. Don’t accept less than you were created for. Get help.

 

[Hockeygurl]

I didn’t read all of the other responses but just wanted to offer a few thoughts (from experience).

Been there and done that… I had 3 kids in 3 years while having an active RN career. Believe me… you feel like everyone wants something from you, your kids need food, baths and diaper changes, your employment is demanding, your house needs cleaning, and at the end of it all… maybe when you have that ONE hour to try to relax, your hubby wants something too.

It took me a while to realize that he equates love with sex. If I refuse him, I don’t love him which of course isn’t true, but that’s how he thinks. He needs that time to connect with me in a deep way. It is important to him and the health of our relationship so therefore I had to realize that it needed to be important to me too.

I started to do more for myself and be a little more selfish. I had always wanted to become a Nurse Practitioner so I did that for ME. I took time out and when the kids were in school I went to the movies occasionally, or to the mall. I stopped being OCD about how clean my house was and lowered my standards a little bit. I exercised daily right after work, no matter how many dishes were in the sink, or how many people tried to call me.

It is interesting that this made such a huge difference for me. I became ME instead of someone’s wife or mother. I stopped feeling used.

I also talked with my husband about the issues I was having with being “in the mood”. He needed to understand that just like sex was important to him, romance was important to me. Take me out to dinner, woo me just a little bit. Tell me I look good in that outfit (even if it’s a lie). He needs to go slow when asking for sex, I need to relax (and try to shut up my mind from everything that needs to be done)… so backrubs are really good foreplay and lightly brushing the right spots usually works. I also learned that a few glasses of red wine didn’t hurt either.

So find what works for you. Talk about it with your husband. I think if he feels fulfilled NFP may be less stressful for the both of you

Good Luck!

 

[jlc2k2]

Forgive me for being cynical but I really struggle with many of the posts in this thread. I also just finished reading a similar forum thread on NFP and “safe days” that I found equally disheartening. As a cradle catholic and NFP practitioner with six kids under 12, my wife and I feel we are at a point where we can no longer prudently afford another child. So we are being more strict about NFP. I must say it is very different than laid out in my preCana course. Somehow they told us there was a safe window of 2.5-3 weeks. Well…in reality it may be closer to one week!?! So I am doing my research and I stumble on this thread. And the message I get it “I guess your ole body is just telling you it is not time for a baby…” or “it’s OK to take some time off…like several YEARS!?!” I read what I see as tragic stories about couples who have not had sex for years and have learned to “accept it”…
ARE YOU ALL CRAZY??? Seriously??? When I read the OP’s post my first response is there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with her. I am sure it most likely stems from a problem on both sides. But it is a serious problem that needs attention…counseling…medical help…pharmaceutical help…for God’s sake, do something! How dare you all tell the OP “Aw shucks…I guess it’s all right…ya know…” No it is not. And please don’t obfuscate with some argument about nursing means you don’t want sex. Really? My wife has nursed six children and she often wants sex more than I do. I am so frustrated with Catholics who live in doldrums and drudgery and then try to write it off as “our cross” or “following the rules.” Do we honestly think a loving God, who created our BODIES and our sex drive, wants that kinds of existence for us? That’s a load of hooey. Worse yet, I believe it to be a lie of the devil himself. I am praying for ALL of you and for the OP. God created us (and our drives) and the are GOOD. The dance of intimacy between a man and a woman in marital union is beautiful–and reflects God’s glory and the interrelationship between the three persons of the Trinity. Don’t write it off. Don’t accept less than you were created for. Get help.

Wow! So since you and your wife have had one experience the rest of us are being lied to by the devil for having a different experience? Good to know that there is only one way to experience life.

 

[MusherMaggie]

What you’re feeling is completely normal. Don’t wean the baby; I always did baby-led weaning. It helped space the babies better and actually helped with the hormonal and emotional aspects. Do go to NFP classes with.your husband. There is a real growth in spirituality and respect for spouses, for the workings of the human body and for God to be had. Education leads to understanding. Do have a night out unaccompanied at least by your oldest three children. You already know this, but there are a lot of ways besides intercourse to nurture a marriage.

Above all, remember that this, too, shall pass.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Forgive me for being cynical but I really struggle with many of the posts in this thread. I also just finished reading a similar forum thread on NFP and “safe days” that I found equally disheartening. As a cradle catholic and NFP practitioner with six kids under 12, my wife and I feel we are at a point where we can no longer prudently afford another child. So we are being more strict about NFP. I must say it is very different than laid out in my preCana course. Somehow they told us there was a safe window of 2.5-3 weeks. Well…in reality it may be closer to one week!?! So I am doing my research and I stumble on this thread. And the message I get it “I guess your ole body is just telling you it is not time for a baby…” or “it’s OK to take some time off…like several YEARS!?!” I read what I see as tragic stories about couples who have not had sex for years and have learned to “accept it”…
ARE YOU ALL CRAZY??? Seriously??? When I read the OP’s post my first response is there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with her. I am sure it most likely stems from a problem on both sides. But it is a serious problem that needs attention…counseling…medical help…pharmaceutical help…for God’s sake, do something! How dare you all tell the OP “Aw shucks…I guess it’s all right…ya know…” No it is not. And please don’t obfuscate with some argument about nursing means you don’t want sex. Really? My wife has nursed six children and she often wants sex more than I do. I am so frustrated with Catholics who live in doldrums and drudgery and then try to write it off as “our cross” or “following the rules.” Do we honestly think a loving God, who created our BODIES and our sex drive, wants that kinds of existence for us? That’s a load of hooey. Worse yet, I believe it to be a lie of the devil himself. I am praying for ALL of you and for the OP. God created us (and our drives) and the are GOOD. The dance of intimacy between a man and a woman in marital union is beautiful–and reflects God’s glory and the interrelationship between the three persons of the Trinity. Don’t write it off. Don’t accept less than you were created for. Get help.

You seem to be very passionate about this subject. And I understand your frustration with NFP. But what are the alternatives. Are you advocating breaking the “rules”?

 

[MusherMaggie]

Self-control is also a gift from God. We are not merely animals.

 

[Xantippe]

Forgive me for being cynical but I really struggle with many of the posts in this thread. I also just finished reading a similar forum thread on NFP and “safe days” that I found equally disheartening. As a cradle catholic and NFP practitioner with six kids under 12, my wife and I feel we are at a point where we can no longer prudently afford another child. So we are being more strict about NFP. I must say it is very different than laid out in my preCana course. Somehow they told us there was a safe window of 2.5-3 weeks. Well…in reality it may be closer to one week!?! So I am doing my research and I stumble on this thread. And the message I get it “I guess your ole body is just telling you it is not time for a baby…” or “it’s OK to take some time off…like several YEARS!?!” I read what I see as tragic stories about couples who have not had sex for years and have learned to “accept it”…
ARE YOU ALL CRAZY??? Seriously??? When I read the OP’s post my first response is there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with her. I am sure it most likely stems from a problem on both sides. But it is a serious problem that needs attention…counseling…medical help…pharmaceutical help…for God’s sake, do something! How dare you all tell the OP “Aw shucks…I guess it’s all right…ya know…” No it is not. And please don’t obfuscate with some argument about nursing means you don’t want sex. Really? My wife has nursed six children and she often wants sex more than I do. I am so frustrated with Catholics who live in doldrums and drudgery and then try to write it off as “our cross” or “following the rules.” Do we honestly think a loving God, who created our BODIES and our sex drive, wants that kinds of existence for us? That’s a load of hooey. Worse yet, I believe it to be a lie of the devil himself. I am praying for ALL of you and for the OP. God created us (and our drives) and the are GOOD. The dance of intimacy between a man and a woman in marital union is beautiful–and reflects God’s glory and the interrelationship between the three persons of the Trinity. Don’t write it off. Don’t accept less than you were created for. Get help.

I think I might have been the person who mentioned taking a break. I didn’t mean a break from having sex at all. I meant a break from the pregnant-nursing-pregnant-nursing-pregnant-nursing-pregnant-nursing cycle that has worn her out and killed her sex drive. A year or two without being either pregnant or nursing could work wonders.

Nursing is a well-known libido killer. Look it up.

bellybelly.com.au/breastfeeding/libido-and-breastfeeding-whats-happened-to-my-sex-drive-now-i-am-breastfeeding#.VEfL_UpX-uY

That is part of the natural rhythm of fertility–when we women already have a baby (not to mention older children), we are often less interested in making another one right this minute. That’s not some sort of devilish deception, that’s just good sense.

She should certainly talk to her doctor (and it’s been a long time since I’ve read the thread, but I believe she has), but the most obvious treatment for a nursing mother with low libido is to finish nursing and make a good effort to space out the next pregnancy.