The Reality of How Trans People are Treated

[aspawloski4th]

There are many critiques of individual experiments, all boiling down to claims of insufficient sample size for the individual results in isolation to be completely conclusive without looking at other areas too. Some critiques about the effect of hormones in the earlier papers, that have been answered by later ones showing hormones had no effect in that area.

But research results that are antithetical, none that I know of. There are reports of single cases (with no follow up so we don’t know if the effect was temporary) of Spirit Release Therapy, Exorcism and Pyramidology being effective, but the quality of the data is poor.

See for example :

Gender identity change in a transsexual: an exorcism.
Barlow DH, Abel GG, Blanchard EB.
Arch Sex Behav. 1977 Sep;6(5):387-95.

[Psychological treatment of transsexualism and sexual identity disorders some recent attempts]
Bourgeois M.
Ann Med Psychol (Paris). 1978 Nov;136(9):985-1008.

Since the improvement of the diagnostic criteria from the mid-80’s, there have been no such “improvements” reported in the literature, and none of the patients would be considered transsexual by today’s definitions. “Behavior therapy” by the way included what in other contexts would be called torture - electric shocks to eyeballs, genitalia, administration of psychoactive drugs and some which caused uncontrollable vomiting etc.

Dr Blanchard is ivolved in this study. I don’t trust it as far as I can throw it, if my arm was broken.

 

[estesbob]

Yes, Zoe mentioned this in post #50.

It was a very cruel trick.

Well I wandered in and Ill wander back out. I read the first post and found it to be so absolutely unbelievable I googled the name.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Well I wandered in and Ill wander back out. I read the first post and found it to be so absolutely unbelievable I googled the name.

Something similer happened in western Colorado for real. The murderer was found guilty.

 

[estesbob]

Something similer happened in western Colorado for real. The murderer was found guilty.

Are you talking about the guy who found out his girlfriend was a he and beat him to death? A tragedy for sure but I would not exactly call thim similar. The hoax claimed an attack by a gang that went out looking to beat a transexual to death. The Colorado case was nothing like that.

 

[aspawloski4th]

The only real difference was the hoax was a about a gang and the Colorado affair was one person. The colorado murder was very violent. These thugs need to be made an example of.

 

[estesbob]

The only real difference was the hoax was a about a gang and the Colorado affair was one person. The colorado murder was very violent. These thugs need to be made an example of.

I think all thugs should need to made an example of.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

The only real difference was the hoax was a about a gang and the Colorado affair was one person. The colorado murder was very violent. These thugs need to be made an example of.

Here’s what actually happened (according to multiple witnesses) to Gwen Araujo:

At the party on 3 October 2002 she was discovered, by forced inspection (conducted by Brown), that she had male genitalia, following which the men with whom she had had sexual relations became extremely agitated. Magidson put her in a chokehold. Later, he punched her in the face and began to choke her, but was pulled off by others. At some point after that, Paul Merel, Emmanuel Merel, and Brown left the apartment. Jose Merel struck her in the head with a can of food and a frying pan. Nabors and Cazares left in Magidson’s truck to go to Cazares’s house to get shovels and a pickax.

When Nabors and Cazares returned, Gwen was still conscious and sitting on the couch. At some point, the assault resumed. Magidson kneed her in the head against the living room wall, rendering her unconscious. Cazares kicked her. After this, Araujo was taken to the garage of the home. Nabors testified that Magidson strangled her with a rope and that Cazares struck her with a shovel, but Magidson testified that it was Nabors who strangled Gwen and struck her with the shovel, and Cazares testified that he never struck her and did not see Gwen die. Most accounts have Merel cleaning blood out of the carpet at the time that she was strangled. Araujo was then hog-tied, wrapped in a blanket, and placed in the bed of a pick-up truck. They then drove Gwen Araujo’s body four hours away and buried her near the Sierra Nevada mountains. Gwen Araujo’s disappearance and murder went unreported for days. It is not clear at what point during this sequence of events Araujo’s death occurred. However, the autopsy showed that she died from strangulation associated with blunt force trauma to the head.

None of the killers were convicted of murder in the first degree: it took three trials before they were all found guilty of various lesser charges.

At Araujo’s mother’s request, a judge posthumously changed Araujo’s legal name from Eddie to Gwen on 23 June 2004.

That last is important to us.

And this is what actually happened to Brandon Teena:

During a Christmas Eve party, Nissen and Lotter grabbed Brandon and forced him to remove his pants, proving to Tisdel that Brandon was not biologically male. Tisdel looked only when they forced her to, and said nothing. Lotter and Nissen then attacked Brandon, and forced him into a car. They drove to an area by a meat-packing plant and beat and raped him. They then returned to Nissen’s home.

Brandon escaped from Nissen’s bathroom by climbing out the window and went to Tisdel’s house. He was convinced to file a police report, though Nissen and Lotter had warned Brandon to remain silent. The police did not charge anybody due to ‘lack of evidence.’

Brandon also went to the emergency room where a standard rape kit was assembled, but later lost. The sheriff at the time, Charles B. Laux, asked Brandon questions about the rape. Reportedly, he seemed especially interested in Brandon’s transsexuality, to the point that Brandon found his questions rude and unnecessary, and refused to answer. Nissen and Lotter learned of the report, and they began to search for Brandon. They did not find him, but three days later the police questioned them. The sheriff declined to have them arrested.

The two men left for Lambert’s house and broke in. They found Lambert in bed and demanded to know where Brandon was. Lambert refused to tell them. Nissen searched and found Brandon under the bed. The men asked Lambert if there was anyone else in the house, and she replied that Phillip DeVine was staying with her. They shot and killed DeVine, Lambert, and Brandon, in front of Lambert’s young child. Nissen and Lotter then left, but were quickly arrested and charged with murder

Laux was also criticized after the murder for his attitude toward Brandon — at one point Laux referred to him as “it”.

That also is important to us.

 

[melissa1980]

Something similer happened in western Colorado for real. The murderer was found guilty.

Sorry, but the murder of Angie Zapata was a Greeley, Colorado matter, northeastern Colorado.

 

[estesbob]

Here’s what actually happened (according to multiple witnesses) to Gwen Araujo:

None of the killers were convicted of murder in the first degree: it took three trials before they were all found guilty of various lesser charges.

At Araujo’s mother’s request, a judge posthumously changed Araujo’s legal name from Eddie to Gwen on 23 June 2004.

That last is important to us.

And this is what actually happened to Brandon Teena:

Laux was also criticized after the murder for his attitude toward Brandon — at one point Laux referred to him as “it”.

That also is important to us.

Both tragedies but I am not sure what the point is you are trying to make? There are over 16,000 murders per year in the US-the majority of which do not lead to convictions of first degree murder. You have given us two that happen to involve Transexuals. I guess i could give you 15,998 more that did not but would be the point?

 

[aspawloski4th]

Sorry, but the murder of Angie Zapata was a Greeley, Colorado matter, northeastern Colorado.

My mistake. My knowledge of Colorado’s geography isn’t what it should be, since On the other states it’s pretty decent. I’m from Michigan and never been west of Chicagometro in my life time. Iv’e gotta get out more.

 

[estesbob]

My mistake. My knowledge of Colorado’s geography isn’t what it should be, since On the other states it’s pretty decent. I’m from Michigan and never been west of Chicagometro in my life time. Iv’e gotta get out more.

One of my offices is about 15 miles form Greely, Nice town on the Colorado Plains. the guy who did this is lucky the citizens of Greely didnt get to him before the police did.

 

[melissa1980]

One of my offices is about 15 miles form Greely, Nice town on the Colorado Plains. the guy who did this is lucky the citizens of Greely didnt get to him before the police did.

Given the rapid verdict, I understand whereof you speak, and, yes, Greeley is a nice town. Estes Park is also a very nice town with its alpine splendor. Still again, the jury stood up to the task of bringing justice to bear on Andrade’s conduct. Murder is abhorrent no matter the cause.

 

[estesbob]

Given the rapid verdict, I understand whereof you speak, and, yes, Greeley is a nice town. Estes Park is also a very nice town with its alpine splendor. Still again, the jury stood up to the task of bringing justice to bear on Andrade’s conduct. Murder is abhorrent no matter the cause.

Well so far we have had no summer in Estes this year. Been raining aboute every afternoon and rarely get much above 70-but I am heading to my Houston Office monday i suspect ill get my fill of summer quick!

There was lot of specualtion in the Denver papers that the Jury might go for the argument that his discovery of her transexuality mitigated the crime -those of us that knew the area knew he was toast from the moment he was picked up.

 

[melissa1980]

Well so far we have had no summer in Estes this year. Been raining aboute every afternoon and rarely get much above 70-but I am heading to my Houston Office monday i suspect ill get my fill of summer quick!

There was lot of specualtion in the Denver papers that the Jury might go for the argument that his discovery of her transexuality mitigated the crime -those of us that knew the area knew he was toast from the moment he was picked up.

Understood, and yet the area, while educationally adept is not so aligned with Boulder as to have produced a slam dunk over a mitigation predisposition. Me thinks there are a good many good people in Greeley who would not stand for a hate motivator. Oh, and thank you for your reference to Angie Zapata as “she.”

 

[Zoe_Brain]

There are over 16,000 murders per year in the US-the majority of which do not lead to convictions of first degree murder.

How many where the killing happened at a party, with dozens of witnesses, and where when the victim was still alive, some of the killers went to get tools to bury the body?

How many of those would not just have insufficient evidence of “pre-meditation”, but not even have enough to sustain convictions without two mistrials first?

The reason there was such enormous publicity at Greeley was that trying to get a murder conviction just for killing a trans woman in the USA of 2009 is like trying to get a white convicted for murdering a black in 1909. It’s an unusual thing when it happens. The last time was in 1976 - unless non-trans victims were involved too.

And how many local law enforcement officials refuse to investigate? The average clear-up rate for Homicides in the US is 70%. Except when the victim is trans, then the clear-up rate is 30%. More than 2 in 3 murders remain unsolved.

Three recent homicides - two of them immediately preceeding Angie’s death:

First Case:
That of the slaying of Amancio Corralles.

Her killer, Ruben confessed to the crime, including repeatedly stabbing her, dumping the body in a river, and fleeing the country.

He pled to attempted manslaughter, his story being that he was misled as to her sex, and when he found out, went berserk. Since the victim can’t testify, that’s enough to raise “reasonable doubt” that it might be true. And if one assumes that the existence of a transsexual woman is in itself such a provocation as to justify homicide, then the plea may be reasonable.

Second Case:
That of the slaying of Alexis King.

The evidence is consistent with someone going “tranny hunting”. Stop by a haunt of TS sex workers, when one comes over, a double-tap with an illegal handgun, then drive off. Similar to many unsolved murders, such as that of Ebony Whitacker.

Except his car wouldn’t re-start.

However, all the killer had to do, after giving a number of false stories about unidentified thieves and shootings, was to play the “Trans Panic” card. Even though the medical evidence showed his final story couldn’t possibly be true - the victim was shot in the side and the back as she attempted to flee, and rather than exposing her genitalia, it was tucked away in her panties. Because the victim was Transsexual, it was enough to raise “reasonable doubt” that something like that might possibly have happened, even if not in the same way.

And being Transsexual is provocative enough to justify not one shot, but two. Just to make sure.

Case Three
The slaying of Tiffany Berry

DeAndre Blake confessed to shooting Tiffany Berry “because he did not like the way she had “touched” him”. She was shot while leaving her apartment.

Her friends say that she stepped outside for some fresh air on February 16. About that time, neighbors heard five gunshots. Minutes later, Berry stumbled into the lobby of the apartment building, where she died moments later. She had been shot three times, in the chest.

He was charged with 2nd degree murder - but only put on a $20,000 bail, with no actual trial ever scheduled. Had he not killed again, this time his toddler daughter, he’d still be free.

 

[estesbob]

How many where the killing happened at a party, with dozens of witnesses, and where when the victim was still alive, some of the killers went to get tools to bury the body?quoye}

Quite a few , i am sure. Do you want me to start digging up news stories of gruesome murders? I am sure I can do so but i dont see much of a point to it.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Quite a few , i am sure. Do you want me to start digging up news stories of gruesome murders? I am sure I can do so but i dont see much of a point to it.

Oh, but this wasn’t a murder. Not a pre-meditated one, anyway. Not according to any of the three Juries.

That is my point. The rules are different when the victim is Trans. Though not in Greeley, CO.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

Aiding and Abetting

CatholicExchange.com: Launched in July 2001, the Catholic Exchange website has distinguished itself as the premier Catholic portal on the Internet… We currently receive thousands of visits each day.

From Catholic Exchange

**Legalizing Deception: Why “Gender Identity” Should Not be Added to Anti-discrimination Legislation
**
Persons who present themselves in public as the other sex say they need such protections because they are afraid of violence. This fear is real. When someone is deceived — particularly in such a personal matter has the sex of an intimate partner or potential spouse — anger is an understandable reaction. Violent acts can never be condoned, but if such legislation is passed those who have been deceived will be denied any legal recourse and the deceivers will be portrayed as victims.

Which is why Trans people should be denied actual rather than nominal legal protection from violent acts. Not that violence can be condoned of course.

Because if violence against Trans people was actually illegal, or existing laws enforced, then the murder victims would be portrayed as, well, victims. And the killers would have no legal recourse, they’d face prosecution for what they did. This is a Bad Thing in the Catholic Exchange’s view.

Not that violence can be condoned of course. Just… allowed. Legally, not morally.

If “gender identity” is added to anti-discrimination legislation, the lie of “sex change” will be taught in the schools. It won’t be long before we will have children’s books about how Johnny’s daddy is now Johnny’s mommy and everyone is living happily ever after.

It’s Andrew. My son’s name is Andrew, not Johnny.

Attack me, it’s one thing. Attempt to make my son’s life more difficult for having the grave misfortune to have such a peculiar parent, that’s another. People may differ in opinions as to my own actions, but this “premier Catjolic portal on the Internet” opines that it would be highly desirable that my son be persecuted for that.

And should I get upset by that, it’s just a sign of mental illness, “narcissistic rage”.It’s not enough that we suffer, we must be made to suffer in silence or sustain additional slurs.

Now I’m not saying that all Catholics share the author’s views, let’s be clear on that. I’m not saying that most do, as I don’t believe that either. I’m not even saying that many do, though that’s only because I lack insufficient evidence to prove that beyond any doubt. But where is the outcry from those Catholics who deplore these views?

Aiding and Abetting.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Aiding and Abetting

From Catholic Exchange
Which is why Trans people should be denied actual rather than nominal legal protection from violent acts. Not that violence can be condoned of course.

Because if violence against Trans people was actually illegal, or existing laws enforced, then the murder victims would be portrayed as, well, victims. And the killers would have no legal recourse, they’d face prosecution for what they did. This is a Bad Thing in the Catholic Exchange’s view.

Not that violence can be condoned of course. Just… allowed. Legally, not morally.

It’s Andrew. My son’s name is Andrew, not Johnny.

Attack me, it’s one thing. Attempt to make my son’s life more difficult for having the grave misfortune to have such a peculiar parent, that’s another. People may differ in opinions as to my own actions, but this “premier Catjolic portal on the Internet” opines that it would be highly desirable that my son be persecuted for that.

And should I get upset by that, it’s just a sign of mental illness, “narcissistic rage”.It’s not enough that we suffer, we must be made to suffer in silence or sustain additional slurs.

Now I’m not saying that all Catholics share the author’s views, let’s be clear on that. I’m not saying that most do, as I don’t believe that either. I’m not even saying that many do, though that’s only because I lack insufficient evidence to prove that beyond any doubt. But where is the outcry from those Catholics who deplore these views?

Aiding and Abetting.

I skimmed over that article. It Makes me sick. While autogynephilia exists, it is over diagnosed and is being used as a crutch to debunk transsexuality, which I take umbrage with. In effect this article calls me a liar. Funny how maticulous standards being used by me on knowing what Im talking about gets me very little when dealing with such a medieval mindset.

 

[estesbob]

Oh, but this wasn’t a murder. Not a pre-meditated one, anyway. Not according to any of the three Juries.

That is my point. The rules are different when the victim is Trans. Though not in Greeley, CO.

Of the 16,000 plus mudrders a year how many are of tran-sexuals? I get the feeling that in this thread we have had a vivid account of the murder of every trans-sexual killed in the US in the last 50 years!(and some great fiction about some that did not even exist!) I still am not getting you point?

Are you suggesting that every trans-sexual in the country be provided a Govt pais bodyguard?

Or perhaps since we are in a Catholic Forum you are hinitng that the Church needs to change its teaching on Trans-sexuals becuase some have been mistreated/murdered?