The reality of Muslim-Christian dialogue...

[Jayda]

oooooooooooooooookay

well… things pretty much went downhill very quickly. nobody seems to trust me, i am getting a lot of negativity and when i post things explaining my perspective and invite muslims to discuss that, everybody seems to just discuss how ignorant i am, instead of explaining things… but that is probably because i am not trusted…

it is especially frustrating because i read pretty much all muslim resources about islam… like their quran and their book “sealed nectar” about their prophet… and i have been talking to lots of muslims over the last year… and learning arabic… so i do not think my opinion should be discounted as just the ramblings of an outsider…

somebody said something extremely offensive mocking the crucifixion (to which another muslim also expressed her shock at the offensive comment)

i have been told in PM and (kind of politely) on the public forums to shut up… i think that is good advice.

i learned some other valuable things though! there is a thread there by a person called “al cordoby” or at least he is the most prominent poster there… lots of articles and things about muslim clerics and intellectuals reaching out for dialogue with Catholics.

so basically what i found out about the reality of muslim Christian dialogue is that it is just like Christian Muslim dialogue… the important people like clerics and intellectuals do much meaningful work and are thirsty to continue,

meanwhile the lay people on their webforums shout at each other and are disrespectful, (since it is the internet and they are not face to face), even though a contingent on the webforum (like me, here) objects to all the meanness…

honestly the way their webforum is to non Muslims is exactly how ours is to muslims… and since i only have the patience to post in one such environment i am going to discontinue posting our questions there… maybe somebody else can do that.

soo… muslim intellectuals and clerics = very in to dialoguing
actual muslims on webforums = mixed, but in sum negative

just like us.

hopefully that answers some of your questions about MC dialogue jack

Dominus Vobsicum everyone

 

[Jayda]

one more thing to add!

there is a kind of interest in muslim christian dialogue among the lay… it seems…

the individual who insulted the crucifixion made an effort to visit Catholic parishes and talk to Catholics… although it was poorly executed (he wore sunglasses in Church, immodestly flirted with girls and asked rhetorical questions instead of real ones) i think it does show an interest in finding out from the inside out.

that’s all i found out!

Dominus vobiscum!

 

[BelFarfalla]

one more thing to add!

there is a kind of interest in muslim christian dialogue among the lay… it seems…

the individual who insulted the crucifixion made an effort to visit Catholic parishes and talk to Catholics… although it was poorly executed (he wore sunglasses in Church, immodestly flirted with girls and asked rhetorical questions instead of real ones) i think it does show an interest in finding out from the inside out.

that’s all i found out!

Dominus vobiscum!

From my experience, the asking of rhetorical questions in these situations is aimed at getting Christians to open up to Islam, not for the Muslims to gain any understanding of Christianity. The educution of Muslims includes quite a bit of learning about Judeism and Christianity and learing why it is wrong.

 

[FaithBW]

From my experience, the asking of rhetorical questions in these situations is aimed at getting Christians to open up to Islam, not for the Muslims to gain any understanding of Christianity. The educution of Muslims includes quite a bit of learning about Judeism and Christianity and learing why it is wrong.

Well, there are Christians who do the same thing, especially Evangelists. Honestly, if you’re in the business of getting people to see your way as the truth (whether it’s dawah in Islam or evangelizing in Christianity) your going to do this. I don’t think it’s wrong as long as people are upfront about it.

Personally, it’s not really my cup of tea. I’m a Religion major so I’m constantly exposed to various Religions. I don’t really feel a need to ask rhetorical questions. I try to show people the beauty of Islam by actions and speech.

If you or anyone else is interested, you can visit my site islaminview.ipbfree.com. It’s a site my husband and I started and one of the aims is to promote non-Muslim/Muslim dialogue. It’s not a dawah site so we don’t have the express purpose of converting you.

 

[BelFarfalla]

one more thing to add!

there is a kind of interest in muslim christian dialogue among the lay… it seems…

the individual who insulted the crucifixion made an effort to visit Catholic parishes and talk to Catholics… although it was poorly executed (he wore sunglasses in Church, immodestly flirted with girls and asked rhetorical questions instead of real ones) i think it does show an interest in finding out from the inside out.

that’s all i found out!

Dominus vobiscum!
If they are telling you to be quiet you should be very careful. I’ve participated on forums like that before. Worked very hard to be as civil as possible. But asking any questions that challenge anything is not accepted. Its as though thy want you to shut up and listen so they can indoctrinate. On one forum, they were apparently able to put spywear on my computer ( alot of web sites do this). Well the got some of my personal info, published it on the forum to let me know that they found me. They went even further and sent someone to talk to my neighbors and ask about me. Then they published something a neighbor told them. Then two of the most threatening posers threatened my children. I left the forum. I also cleaned out my computer and reinstalled the operating system, etc. They were very successful in shutting me up.

There was another person, a European woman on the forum who they did not like… the front of her house was vandalized. Someone on the forum then posted about it while the vandalizing was going on.

We think that we are anonymous and safe on these forums. Any smart programmer can use a web site to infiltrate your computer and pull everything personal off of it. Most forums do not do this… some do, especiallly those that do not believe in free speech.

 

[Jayda]

gracias for your concern but i definitely do not think that there is anything to fear from these people… there are lunatics on the internet, i have been stalked several times…

i think there was a combination of things working on the posters of that webforum… it is close to finals so the younger people were understandably stressed out, there were a lot of new muslims who sometimes tend to seek out ways to feel like they are being mistreated so they can feel more attached to the community, and there were lots of people turned bitter by the usual brute force attack conversation style of many on the internet.

also, let us not forget that (as i said before) there were lots of nice people… you will recall the girl who expressed frustration over the mocking of the crucifixion, also after checking back a little while ago i see moderators have corrected him.

just like here… there are lots of nice people, many frustrating people and all kinds of things in between. i dont want people to start picking at my post to come to conclusions other than the one i came to… the way non muslims are treated on their webforum is no different than the way muslims are treated on ours.

Dominus vobiscum

 

[Jayda]

Well, there are Christians who do the same thing, especially Evangelists. Honestly, if you’re in the business of getting people to see your way as the truth (whether it’s dawah in Islam or evangelizing in Christianity) your going to do this. I don’t think it’s wrong as long as people are upfront about it.

Personally, it’s not really my cup of tea. I’m a Religion major so I’m constantly exposed to various Religions. I don’t really feel a need to ask rhetorical questions. I try to show people the beauty of Islam by actions and speech.

If you or anyone else is interested, you can visit my site islaminview.ipbfree.com. It’s a site my husband and I started and one of the aims is to promote non-Muslim/Muslim dialogue. It’s not a dawah site so we don’t have the express purpose of converting you.

okay then!

since i am the usual ‘on assignment’ poster i will join your webforum and see what happens

que Dios te bendiga

 

[BelFarfalla]

Well, there are Christians who do the same thing, especially Evangelists. Honestly, if you’re in the business of getting people to see your way as the truth (whether it’s dawah in Islam or evangelizing in Christianity) your going to do this. I don’t think it’s wrong as long as people are upfront about it.

I agree with on this ……

Personally, it’s not really my cup of tea. I’m a Religion major so I’m constantly exposed to various Religions. I don’t really feel a need to ask rhetorical questions. I try to show people the beauty of Islam by actions and speech.

good

If you or anyone else is interested, you can visit my site islaminview.ipbfree.com

. It’s a site my husband and I started and one of the aims is to promote non-Muslim/Muslim dialogue. It’s not a dawah site so we don’t have the express purpose of converting you.
Good… I might check it out. Allowing discussion and even the hard or harsh questions is important… because getting those answered can clear up a lot. Those sites that chase off or threaten anyone who might not be favorable towards whatever religion the site is about are going to loose more support for their cause then they will ever gain.

 

[BelFarfalla]

gracias for your concern but i definitely do not think that there is anything to fear from these people… there are lunatics on the internet, i have been stalked several times…

i think there was a combination of things working on the posters of that webforum… it is close to finals so the younger people were understandably stressed out, there were a lot of new muslims who tend to seek out ways to feel like they are being mistreated so they can feel more attached to the community, and there were lots of people turned bitter by the usual brute force attack conversation style of many on the internet.

also, let us not forget that (as i said before) there were lots of nice people… you will recall the girl who expressed frustration over the mocking of the crucifixion, also after checking back a little while ago i see moderators have corrected him.

just like here… there are lots of nice people, many frustrating people and all kinds of things in between. i dont want people to start picking at my post to come to conclusions other than the one i came to… the way non muslims are treated on their webforum is no different than the way muslims are treated on ours.

Dominus vobiscum

I brought it up as a caution that we all should remember on web forums no matter what the topic is. Most forums will not do anything so stupid. But the scary part of it was that this was one of the largest forums that exist. I expected more from them.

Have you thought about going to the moderator of the forum about the abuse? Especially the private messages? ON many forums the moderators will have a talk with the persons who did that. This can served to lower the level of animosity.

 

[dessert]

If they are telling you to be quiet you should be very careful. I’ve participated on forums like that before. Worked very hard to be as civil as possible. But asking any questions that challenge anything is not accepted. Its as though thy want you to shut up and listen so they can indoctrinate. On one forum, they were apparently able to put spywear on my computer ( alot of web sites do this). Well the got some of my personal info, published it on the forum to let me know that they found me. They went even further and sent someone to talk to my neighbors and ask about me. Then they published something a neighbor told them. Then two of the most threatening posers threatened my children. I left the forum. I also cleaned out my computer and reinstalled the operating system, etc. They were very successful in shutting me up.

There was another person, a European woman on the forum who they did not like… the front of her house was vandalized. Someone on the forum then posted about it while the vandalizing was going on.

We think that we are anonymous and safe on these forums. Any smart programmer can use a web site to infiltrate your computer and pull everything personal off of it. Most forums do not do this… some do, especiallly those that do not believe in free speech.

I agree with you as those are the reasons I will not post as there are people like that about everything, you know if you sell hot dogs you will get the animal rights after you.
Heck I had snow white and the seven dwarf statues in my yard home made and cost me they were destroyed by and stollen? think a protestant group? Went to the ploice and he took me into a garage and showed me about 3 dozen for me to pick from and wanted to know if any were mine? nope not a one I would have know I made it. He said it happens all the time.
I have a good bck up and safety system but many computers can actually view you while on line so I agree that is what all are up against. Dessert

 

[dessert]

oooooooooooooooookay

well… things pretty much went downhill very quickly. nobody seems to trust me, i am getting a lot of negativity and when i post things explaining my perspective and invite muslims to discuss that, everybody seems to just discuss how ignorant i am, instead of explaining things… but that is probably because i am not trusted…

it is especially frustrating because i read pretty much all muslim resources about islam… like their quran and their book “sealed nectar” about their prophet… and i have been talking to lots of muslims over the last year… and learning arabic… so i do not think my opinion should be discounted as just the ramblings of an outsider…

somebody said something extremely offensive mocking the crucifixion (to which another muslim also expressed her shock at the offensive comment)

i have been told in PM and (kind of politely) on the public forums to shut up… i think that is good advice.

i learned some other valuable things though! there is a thread there by a person called “al cordoby” or at least he is the most prominent poster there… lots of articles and things about muslim clerics and intellectuals reaching out for dialogue with Catholics.

so basically what i found out about the reality of muslim Christian dialogue is that it is just like Christian Muslim dialogue… the important people like clerics and intellectuals do much meaningful work and are thirsty to continue,

meanwhile the lay people on their webforums shout at each other and are disrespectful, (since it is the internet and they are not face to face), even though a contingent on the webforum (like me, here) objects to all the meanness…

honestly the way their webforum is to non Muslims is exactly how ours is to muslims… and since i only have the patience to post in one such environment i am going to discontinue posting our questions there… maybe somebody else can do that.

soo… muslim intellectuals and clerics = very in to dialoguing
actual muslims on webforums = mixed, but in sum negative

just like us.

hopefully that answers some of your questions about MC dialogue jack

Dominus Vobsicum everyone

I think that would be a good idea as I have been worried about you too being on "their "forum.
I know that there are people checking out "things " I say on this forum and correcting me if they know I am wrong but they are checking out the things I say not me personnally unless i make a threat or some sort. I expect that heck even in my church the priest checks things out as he gets lots of info in confession and if someone is secretive then I think a person should be checkedout
but in "their " country or ies this is traseon to them to question so please be carefull and we should not expect this of you, you seem so willing to help but this is arrogant on my part to say to put yu on the front line and look how quickly they figured that out?
Now do you think they have all our addresses etc. who knows:shrug: Let’s just call this an exercise in the Holy spirit of truth> no hard feelings but nothing is really a secret and God does not like secrets I don’t think do you? Dessert

 

[BelFarfalla]

I agree with you as those are the reasons I will not post as there are people like that about everything, you know if you sell hot dogs you will get the animal rights after you.
Heck I had snow white and the seven dwarf statues in my yard home made and cost me they were destroyed by and stollen? think a protestant group? Went to the ploice and he took me into a garage and showed me about 3 dozen for me to pick from and wanted to know if any were mine? nope not a one I would have know I made it. He said it happens all the time.
I have a good bck up and safety system but many computers can actually view you while on line so I agree that is what all are up against. Dessert

You are right that there are a lot of nuts out there from all kinds of beliefs.

Did you see the story in the news this last week about an 11 year old boy who killed a wild bore… it weighed over 1000 lbs. It was huge… scary huge. Apparently his family got 800 lbs of sausage from that bore. The bore’s head was bigger then the kid. IT could have eaten the boy in a couple of chomps. Here a photo of the boy and the bore.

tmq2.wordpress.com/2007/05/26/11-year-old-hunter-kills-wild-pig-dead-ringer-for-rosie-odonnell/

My husband was on line and ran into a forum where the nuts cases were wishing that the wild pig had maimed or killed the boy. Talk about sick people. My husband was so angry that anyone would be so vicious about a child that he blasted them. Not that it will do any good. They will just call him a nut case for valuing a human life over that of a pig. And for supporting the apparently crazy idea that there is nothing wrong nor new about humans hunting to get food.

 

[dessert]

Hi
I am sorry if someone has harmed you or your family. In fact those who follow Mullah’sIslam or Mullah’sShariah or neither following Muhammad nor Quran.
Sorry again, I condemn every atrocitious act done to innocent human beings .
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

No none has harmed my family, as I did not lose a family member or any one I know in the 9-11 attack and those who do these acts of war as the bombings and murders even in our schools are works of satan and his evil. These persons should be condemened and end their violence. Unless confess and forgiven but justice and truth must prevail in the situation. I am glad you agree.

No, I am leading you to ask some questions but also just to say that my granddaughter has been dating a muslim and thus trying to astablish dialogue as this thread is about because before I did not know what you believe and he is Pakistan and so I will have to continue the dialogue with him and my GDD. Thanks
Dessert

 

[dessert]

You are right that there are a lot of nuts out there from all kinds of beliefs.

Did you see the story in the news this last week about an 11 year old boy who killed a wild bore… it weighed over 1000 lbs. It was huge… scary huge. Apparently his family got 800 lbs of sausage from that bore. The bore’s head was bigger then the kid. IT could have eaten the boy in a couple of chomps. Here a photo of the boy and the bore.

tmq2.wordpress.com/2007/05/26/11-year-old-hunter-kills-wild-pig-dead-ringer-for-rosie-odonnell/

My husband was on line and ran into a forum where the nuts cases were wishing that the wild pig had maimed or killed the boy. Talk about sick people. My husband was so angry that anyone would be so vicious about a child that he blasted them. Not that it will do any good. They will just call him a nut case for valuing a human life over that of a pig. And for supporting the apparently crazy idea that there is nothing wrong nor new about humans hunting to get food.

That looks like fake pic are you sure it is right. Because I’ve seen pics of fish as big as a truck I mean a perch? Dessert

 

[dessert]

hola

i am posting your questions in this thread:

whyislam.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19020&PID=434541#434541

please do not flood their webforum by joining to respond to their answers… we can discuss them here if you like. i think it would be rude to transport our arguments to their webforum. they do not seem to trust me… and that would not help.

Dominus vobiscum

I appologize again as when you did offer this the thought back in my mind was is this safe for her? Maybe I should say something but I didn’t sorry Maybe the muslims think the same thing?
Posting on ours? But the CAF is the first forum I’ve been on and I think sometimes I’m getting away with stuff.

Dessert

 

[BelFarfalla]

That looks like fake pic are you sure it is right. Because I’ve seen pics of fish as big as a truck I mean a perch? Dessert

quote=dessert;2283771]That looks like fake pic are you sure it is right. Because I’ve seen pics of fish as big as a truck I mean a perch? Dessert

Yes I believe it is real. I did not notice till just now the odd web site its on… I just searched the web quickly this morning for a photo and posted the first one i saw. It’s

I originally saw the story and photo on a news source… another search just now turned up the story on Fox news… but it was all over the place last week.

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,276386,00.html

I do agree with you, that bore hardly looks real.

 

[paarsurrey]

No, I am leading you to ask some questions but also just to say that my granddaughter has been dating a muslim and thus trying to astablish dialogue as this thread is about because before I did not know what you believe and he is Pakistan and so I will have to continue the dialogue with him and my GDD. Thanks
Dessert

Hi

You may ask any questions you have, if I have understood your post correctly, I would try to answer.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

 

[french]

okay then!

since i am the usual ‘on assignment’ poster i will join your webforum and see what happens

que Dios te bendiga

hey jayda!!

i’m Kyle from CF… nice to see you here i had this site bookmarked, but just now joined… although i did list your name as the referrer lol

 

[dessert]

Hi

You may ask any questions you have, if I have understood your post correctly, I would try to answer.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

Well for starters.

Do you denounce Jahida?

Are American women who marry muslims allowed to go to their own church?

If they have children are they allowed to raise the children as christians if she deisres?

If he becomes an american citizen is he allowed to go back to his country?

Dessert

 

[exoflare]

Well for starters.

Do you denounce Jahida?

Are American women who marry muslims allowed to go to their own church?

If they have children are they allowed to raise the children as christians if she deisres?

If he becomes an american citizen is he allowed to go back to his country?

Dessert

bump…