The reasoning behind Mary

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I find it interesting that many of the most heavily Catholic cultures, historically, are ones in which the mother of the family is very revered. Irish, Italian, Polish, Hispanic families all tend to be very attached to their mothers, sometimes in an emotional or flowery way. From there it’s quite easy to treat Mary as you would your own mother but even more so because even your own mother loves and reveres her. It doesn’t require a lot of thinking or delving into philosophy or logical reasoning. She’s your mama, you love her, she helps you. It’s very basic.
 
Please stop blanketing my comments in such a presumptuous manner. Where did I say I reject the idea of the saints interceding for us? I in fact said earlier that the intercessory part is not what I have a problem with.

Not sure where you got the idea that I rejected their free will in the matter. I simply said that Mary and the saints only do what they do because God provided the grace in order to do so. They still had the free will to use or reject it. Their not robots, and yet, nothing surprises God. That’s a whole other mystery though…
 
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I was not going to post publicly, as it usually just starts a war, but @roseproject, you can be a very good Catholic and never practice any special devotion to Mary. You don’t even have to say the Rosary if you don’t want to.

It is not a requirement to practice any special devotion to her, AT ALL!

Marian devotion does not play a big part in my day-to-day spirituality, and for a long time I thought (mostly because I was told by other Catholics) that there was something “wrong” with me.

Please, if you remember one thing- Pray as you can, not as you can’t. Just pray!
 
roseproject said:
but in thy mercy hear and answer me
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My understanding of this is that it means we are asking Mary to hear our prayer/request - to take pity on us and not turn a deaf ear. Something which was clearly stated in the first part of the prayer - "that never was it known that anyone who fled to they protection, implored thy help or sought they intercession, was left unaided. But as Mary was humble during her earthly life, and still is humble, then we should imitate her and also be humble in asking her to hear our prayer.

Otherwise the danger is we come to arrogantly expect Mary and thus through her - God, to answer all our prayers when we want as we want, in that sense almost with an attitude of a dispensing machine. So to avoid developing this attitude, we remain humble in our petitions. It also keeps us in right relationship with Mary whom God crowned Queen of Heaven & Earth.

If a child was to ask their earthly mother in a disrespectful manner, I’d think the mother would possibly ignore the request, correct the child to ask again, but politely or just say No.

Mary is also Mediatrix of All Graces. Reading this will help in understanding this, if you already don’t. Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces by Father William G. Most
 
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If i die on earth , does that cut the familial ties i have with my parents in heaven? I read from a methodist bishop that after death , mary was no longer the mother of Jesus. He quoted the verse about marital relationships ending on earth.
 
anon91549587 said:
If i die on earth , does that cut the familial ties i have with my parents in heaven? I read from a methodist bishop that after death , mary was no longer the mother of Jesus. He quoted the verse about marital relationships ending on earth.
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The Catholic Church teaches that Mary is the “Mother of God” and does not teach that her motherhood ended when Jesus ascended to Heaven and/or Mary was assumed into Heaven.

The marital relationship we enter into in the Catholic Church on earth ends upon death, and the vows specifically say, “Till Death Do Us Part.” A person whose spouse has died is free to unite themself in the Catholic Church to a new spouse. Jesus specifically stated that in heaven there will not be spousal relationships.

A parental relationship contains no such vows. It is a natural relationship. You don’t go out and unite yourself to a new mother when your mother on earth dies. There is a great deal of anecdotal evidence that parents and children will recognize each other in Heaven. For example, Padre Pio reportedly saw his own deceased mother, along with Mother Mary, as he was dying.

Sounds like Mr. Methodist was just engaging in the usual Protestant pursuit of trying to make Mary go away because she doesn’t fit into his religion’s world view. You’re best off ignoring such errors.
 
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I think that if you believe that you are saved and as a result your going to Heaven is pretty much a certainty, as in the Protestant ‘Once and, always saved’, then I guess it would change your perspective. If you consider that you are already saved then why would you feel you need for someone to intercede for you at the hour of your death?

When Christ said to John, “Behold your mother” he gave us Mary our Mother as a gift for a reason, to protect us and assist us with our salvation. Are we then to think, “I can do it without her”? Perhaps some people can, but why did Christ give his mother to us as a gift?

And if Mary is our spiritual mother, how can we ignore her, not honour her, not speak to her, not tell her we love her?
 
Another thought…

I know Mary is sometimes called the “aquaduct of graces”. In a similar way, aren’t all those who intercede for us, and God answers them through their prayers, acting as aquaducts? Mary being the main one from which they all branch out? Similarly for an example, when saint Peter shadow was able to cure the sick, that was a way he was acting as an aquaduct of Gods grace. Anyone can block this grace from flowing out from them, but God always offers the means…

Does…that sound about right??
 
Tis_Bearself said:
You think that Jesus being merciful means Mary can’t also be merciful? Perhaps more merciful?
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No one can be more merciful than God, Who Is Infinite Mercy. The Most Holy Mother of God, who participates in His royal prerogatives as much as it is possible for Her to do so, would be the first to profess “…His mercy endures forever.” (Psalms)
 
There are plenty of stories about Mary convincing Jesus to show mercy in some way. I suppose next someone will say that since Mary’s will is always conformed to God’s will, Jesus would just decide to be merciful on his own and we don’t need Mary.
At any rate, if you want to join the criticism of Mary on this thread, feel free…I’ll pray for all of you because to me it’s just sad to be so nit picky about Our Blessed Mother.
 
roseproject said:
aren’t all those who intercede for us, and God answers them through their prayers, acting as aquaducts?
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As in being a vehicle of Gods’ answer to our prayers, in the help we give to others, yes, because we are using the grace God gives us to assist another and this action on our part is the answer to the prayer of the other.
roseproject said:
Anyone can block this grace from flowing out from them
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Which is what we do when we refuse to co-operate with the graces God gives us to help others.

But Mary, being the Mother of God, beloved daughter of God, spouse of the Holy Spirit, Queen of Heaven & Earth, full of grace, blessed art Thou amongst women - all as God Willed. God has accorded Mary this role. Therefore Her prayers are more efficacious than any other.
 
I have similar struggles. I love Mary, and I believe all the Dogma, but I don’t have a deep devotion to her. Sometimes I wonder if I would be more devout and holy if I did, because a lot of saints really emphasize how devotion to Mary can help us please God more.
 
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roseproject said:
It would seem that the goal of Marian Devotion is to have her as the best saint to go to for intersession.
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Not quite. Ad Iesum per Mariam - To Jesus through Mary.

St. Louis de Montfort in True Devotion to Mary:

Part Two

Chapter One

NATURE OF PERFECT DEVOTION
TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
OR
PERFECT CONSECRATION
TO JESUS CHRIST
  1. All our perfection consists in being conformed, united and consecrated to Jesus Christ; and therefore the most perfect of all devotions is, without a doubt, that which the most perfectly conforms, united and consecrates us to Jesus Christ.
Now, Mary being the most conformed of all creatures to Jesus Christ, it follows that, of all devotions, that which most consecrates and conforms the soul to Our Lord is devotion to His holy Mother, and that the more a soul is consecrated to Mary, the more it is consecrated to Jesus.
Hence, it comes to pass that the most perfect consecration to Jesus Christ is nothing else but a perfect and entire consecration of ourselves to the Blessed Virgin, and this is the devotion which I teach; or, in other words, a perfect renewal of the vows and promises of holy Baptism.

Source: de Montfort, St. Louis Marie Grignon. True Devotion to Mary. Faber, Fr. Frederick William, D.D. Rockford, IL: TAN Books and Publishers, Inc. 1941, reprinted 1985, p. 77.

https://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/...-with-preparation-for-total-consecration.html
 
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I’m not trying to detract from Our Lady in any way; I just think you could have expressed it differently.

This is what St. Louis de Montfort writes in True Devotion to Mary:

Part One

Chapter 1

NECESSITY OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN
AND OF TRUE DEVOTION TO HER
  1. I avow, with all the Church, that Mary, being a mere creature that has come from the hands of the Most High, is in comparison with His Infinite Majesty less than an atom; or rather, she is nothing at all, because only He is “He Who Is” (Exod. 3:14); consequently that grand Lord, always independent and sufficient to Himself, never had, and has not now, any absolute need of the holy Virgin for the accomplishment of His will and for the manifestation of His glory. He has but to will in order to do everything.
  2. Nevertheless, I say that, things being as they are now—that is, God having willed to commence and to complete His greatest works by the most holy Virgin ever since He created her—we may well think He will not change His conduct in the eternal ages; for He is God, and He changes not, either in His sentiments or in His conduct.
Source: de Montfort, St. Louis Marie Grignon. True Devotion to Mary. Faber, Fr. Frederick William, D.D. Rockford, IL: TAN Books and Publishers, Inc. 1941, reprinted 1985, p. 11.

https://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/...-with-preparation-for-total-consecration.html
 
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You do not need any special devotion to Mary.
If you gain one, that is a wonderful gift, but do not worry if you never do.
Pray as you can, not as you can’t!
 
theorangeandblue said:
You shall not make for an idol or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth or in the water under the earth

You shall not worship then or serve them for I the Lord your God am a jealous God visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children on the third generations who hate Me

Exodus 20:4-5
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When you take out of context you loose the meaning.

2 "I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.

3 You shall not have other gods besides me.

4 You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth;

5 you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation;

6 but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Idol by definition is a false god. The commandment is not referring to statues in general but statues that are worshiped as a god.

There is a lot that Scripture says on salvation such as I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).
 
Salvation and struggles are two different things… think those unfamiliar with the reasoning of praying to Mary sometimes miss that.

I ask Mary to pray for me now and at the time of my death…not to save me…but to help me with all the bonehead mistakesI commit and the day to day struggles I encounter…same as when I was a kid and would come running to my mom when I got hurt or was in trouble.

Also to those who were like I was, a little trepidus about praying to Mary I would suggest to meditate on just what scripture says about “found favor” and “full of grace” signifies…it may be a short blurb in the bible but there is a lot to unpack there.
 
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