The reasoning behind Mary

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theorangeandblue said:
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved

For with the heart a person believes resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation

Romans 10:9-10
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That’s not the complete picture. He says just before that unless we are baptized into Jesus’ death, we cannot be saved. Here’s a good article on this very subject…Baptism Saves You | Catholic Answers

You may also argue that Jesus Himself said that confessing Him with your lips isn’t enough, as found when the rich young man approached Him when He replied to his inquiry…

“Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, bear not false witness, do no fraud, honour thy father and mother.
But he answering, said to him: Master, all these things I have observed from my youth.
And Jesus looking on him, loved him, and said to him: One thing is wanting unto thee: go, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me. Who being struck sad at that saying, went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.” - Mark 10: 19-22

He calls each of us to do things for the good of our souls and others. Not saying everyone is called to sell their belongings. The point is He calls us to do certain works in our lives.

In fact, He makes is very clear…

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord , shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” - Matthew 7: 21

This is further illustrated when he tells of the sorting of the sheep and the goats, He says “For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in…”

Yes, confessing with your lips is part of the puzzle, but in context, it is not the complete picture.

Also, here’s the Catholic understanding on idols and graven images… Do Catholics Worship Statues? | Catholic Answers

But, let’s not let this thread go off in a different direction from the OP. If you wish to continue on this subject in length, you are more than welcome to pm me or start a new thread.

God bless 🙂
 
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Mary isn’t an idol, and I certainly hope you’re not disrespecting Our Blessed Mother on a Catholic forum thread about Catholic prayer by suggesting she is. That is not okay here. It’s highly insulting.
 
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theorangeandblue said:
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life

John 3:16

That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved

For with the heart a person believes resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation

Romans 10:9-10

You shall not make for an idol or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth or in the water under the earth

You shall not worship then or serve them for I the Lord your God am a jealous God visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children on the third generations who hate Me

Exodus 20:4-5
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This is not relevant.
 
So, I’ve been asking for the grace of understanding since starting this thread. Though I can’t explain it, I feel a growing sense of calm about this issue, and the seeds of genuine trust.

Still, one more thought…

If devotion to Mary involves following her example in all things and benefiting from her merits, didn’t Christ, in His human life, dignify the entirety of the human experience in His example first and foremost; giving us the treasury of His merits to utilize? In uniting our actions with His; our mundane tasks in life, our sufferings, etc. all of our actions become meritorious when united to His.

Our goal is to imitate Christ in all things. This was the goal of the saints first and foremost. Yes people often imitate the qualities of others who have done their job well, and rightly so if they are truly mirrors of Christ. Even Paul writes in one of his letters to “imitate me as an example”. I guess the bottom line is why is imitating the imitator beneficial in our spiritual lives, in particular Mary, rather than just imitating the One?
 
Regarding the merits of Jesus and Mary (and all the Saints) - The Treasury of Merits is the spiritual bank of all the excess merits of Jesus, BVM and all the Saints combined.

Our Sunday Visitor - Grasp the gift of indulgences
“When Jesus died suffering on the cross, he gained for us both our salvation and merits without end.”

Mary is the excellent example for frail humans to follow. Jesus is too, but as well as being fully human He is also fully divine.

Mary stands alone, and with the ‘One’. She didn’t imitate our Lord - she was full of grace, as the angel Gabriel said at the Annunciation. It is beneficial for us to imitate Mary, because she is our mother as she is Jesus’ mother, given to us on the Cross, and as the 4th Commandment states “Honour Thy Mother and Thy Father” - so as Mary is our spiritual mother, we imitate her.

As a human child learns by imitating their parents, especially their mother, then we would likewise be prudent to imitate the best Mother of all. We can also imitate Jesus e.g The Imitation of Christ by Thomas à Kempis
 
It isn’t an either-or, it’s a both-and.
Of course men do not need to follow ‘men only’ and women to follow ‘women only’, though often it is easier for some to have a same-sex role model.
But human beings are male and female.
To have both, God made man in Jesus, and the woman Mary, to follow as perfect examples of the truly devout and God-loving, makes for a fuller sign, don’t you think? A fuller example?
 
CRV said:
She didn’t imitate our Lord - she was full of grace, as the angel Gabriel said at the Annunciation.
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Care to elaborate on this?
As in, she didn’t actually imitate Him in His earthly life (since she was full of grace even before He was born to her)?
 
  1. Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin by a special grace from God. She was sinless.
  2. At the Annunciation, that is what the Angel Gabriel said to Mary "Hail Mary, full of grace, full of the presence of God.
  3. Mary knew and studied the Scriptures.
  4. She was already close to and favored by God prior to conceiving Jesus - full of grace.
  5. In that she wasn’t an imitation of Jesus.
CA Mary “full of grace”

CCC #490, 491 & 508
The Immaculate Conception

490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace”.133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.
132= Lumen Gentium #56
133 = Luke 1:28

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God 134, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin. 135
134 = Luke 1:28
135 = Ineffabilis Deus scroll down to The Annunciation

508 " From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. “Full of grace”, Mary is “the most excellent fruit of redemption” ( SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life."
SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM #103

Edited to add -
Immaculate Conception and Assumption Authored By: Karl Keating/Catholic Answers - covers the meaning of Full of Grace too.
 
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Lots of protestants have a problem with intercessions to the Virgin Mary. This is what a find to be a great explanation to protestants about Mary;

 
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