The Response to Catholic vs Christian

[KellyPalmer]

I dont see my 2 other post…deleted?

Your other posts are on page 3.

Good news – all of your misconceptions are very easy to correct! I will look forward to replying to each individually but it’s late and I’m heading to bed. I just wanted to chime in and at least get to one of them tonight:

Yes, the catechism is correct that Mary was without sin. Why do you think that this means that Jesus is not her Savior? Jesus saved Mary before she could sin and he saved us after. I’ll explain – let’s say you were walking along and almost walked right into sinkhole but someone reached out and stopped you just as your were about to fall in? Would not that person have saved you? Of course! Mary was saved before she fell in that hole of sin. The rest of us are saved after we have already fallen into the hole of sin…if not our own actual sins, at least original sin. You would benefit from reading more on Marian Theology, it will change your life.

It doesn’t make sense to claim that Mary has led people away from Jesus, considering the fact that she literally brings millions of people to Jesus! Just look at Our Lady of Guadalupe! She brought 9 million people to Christ in Mexico! You will not be able to find a single word of scripture in which Mary points to anyone other than Christ. Her goal is always to lead people to her Son and the fruit of that is evident.

 

[habagat123]

Thanks Kelly, didnt know my post was on page 3.

Good news – all of your misconceptions are very easy to correct!

I think it would be better to correct the catholic teaching here, because if we number by the millions having the same misconceptions, then there is something wrong with the way catholicism is taught here, isn’t it?

Yes, the catechism is correct that Mary was without sin.

As i ask why, why go to Catechism? Isn’t the Word of God enough?

Jesus saved Mary before she could sin and he saved us after.

Please provide verse from the Word of God that “Jesus saved Mary before she could sin…”

***You would benefit from reading more on Marian Theology, it will change your life. ***

Thanks but no thanks, i was a Marian devotee for 40 years and nothing has changed until i found Jesus Christ and made him my Lord and Saviour. I have always joined those Flores de Mayo since my childhood. Now i only pray and worship The Lord.

It doesn’t make sense to claim that Mary has led people away from Jesus, considering the fact that she literally brings millions of people to Jesus!

Was it really Mary? Did you see it? The Bible clearly warns us of these things.

You will not be able to find a single word of scripture in which Mary points to anyone other than Christ.

you will not find any single word of scripture also that says:
MY IMMACULATE HEART WILL BE YOUR REFUGE AND THE WAY THAT WILL LEAD YOU TO GOD.
– FATIMA. 1917
This im sure was not from the real mother Mary.

Good night Kelly and looking forward to your reply.

 

[katheriner]

Saying your no longer a Catholic and instead you’re a Christian is like saying “I’m no longer a Californian. Now I’m a citizen of the United States.”

I don’t know where this Catholics are not Christian thing came from, but I’ve been running into it a lot more lately. Just more of the anti-Catholic bias we inherited from England, I guess.

 

[habagat123]

The gap is wide here in the Islands, catholics again pray to the Catholic mary and and others, while Christians are simply followers of Christ, no more no less. If you are a Catholic and believe that Jesus alone can save, then you are not a catholic anymore since you dont follow the process of salvation as what we were taught as catholics.

Christians follow the Bible while Catholics follow the Catechism.

Im just saying these few things differs us.

 

[John_Martin]

I do noticed catholics cling to this verse making Mary as an intercessor:
John 2:5
His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
“Do whatever he tells you”!!!, this is what the real mother Mary said but do we follow what Jesus instructs us? Maybe this verse would help:

You are right - Mary is wise in what she says: “Do whatever Jesus tells you to do”
If only we would listen to her when she says this to us.

Oh, one point, though, the servants did not tell Jesus they had no wine; Mary did not tell the servants “Go and tell Jesus you don’t have any wine left”. No, she had a heart to help the shy servants. Mary brought this news to Jesus for them, saying “They have no wine”.
That is what Mary does for us, also. We tell her of something that is wrong. And she, as mother of our King, the Queen Mother, leans up to her Son’s ear and says, “John has this problem”. She does not tell Jesus what to do, only the problem. Then she says back to me, “Do whatever my Son tells you to do”.
And I listen to Jesus then.

Luke 11: 27-28
27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
28 He replied, “Blessed RATHER are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

True, the actual blessing does not come from us saying, “Blessed are you among women”. The blessing comes in its proper sequence. We tell Mary a problem, and we do call her Blessed, because she is. Then she talks to her Son, telling him of our problem and says back to us, “Do whatever he tells you”. And we hear Jesus, do what he tells us, and there is the blessing (we do a work with water, and Jesus turns it to wine - he changes our natural work into supernatural help).

Yes, we are blessed in hearing and doing what God, what Jesus, commands us; and our Mother Mary requires of us, her children, that we listen to our older brother and King, Jesus.

John Martin

 

[kmcarl56]

I do noticed catholics cling to this verse making Mary as an intercessor:

John 2:5

His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

“Do whatever he tells you”!!!, this is what the real mother Mary said but do we follow what Jesus instructs us? Maybe this verse would help:

Luke 11: 27-28

27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
28 He replied, “Blessed RATHER are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Jesus instructed us to listen to the word of God, which is the Bible(Again Catholics gave the Christians as you and many more catholics ALWAYS PROUDLY say) and obey it. I don’t read any verse after that that Jesus said blessed also are those who hear the Catechism of the Catholic Church and obey it. This would have been the right time for Jesus to say, yes you need to pray also to my mother for she is blessed but He said “RATHER…”.

I have noticed a common trend that Protestants do not call Mary blessed but Catholics do. – Sorry but you are mistaken, I think the protestants who sees the Bible as the true word of God believe the real mother Mary as blessed but never the Catholic Mary which was invented to steer millions of souls away from Jesus Christ.

Luke 1:42

In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!

Is Jesus far away that we have to ask help for this Mary? A mediatrix for the mediator? Not to mention the many saints who are also little intercessors. As we jokingly say here in the the Phil when confused “sino ba talaga kuya?!”

***Yes, Jesus is Mary’s savior too! ***– How can she need a savior when Vatican teaches that the catholic Mary is free from sin?

CC966 - "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin,

If not from sin, then save her from what? I am now more confused of you statement since you are saying differently from what CC966 teaches. If she never sinned, why then need a savior?

Here is a prayer we did before as a family here in the Philippines that we no longer pray since we’ve seen the truth. It is the Novena our Lady of Fatima:

We all want to be saved by Mary. Then we must also listen to her, how she will save us – page 11

I have yet to find a verse in the Bible that says Mary can save us, can you please help? But millions upon millions of Filipino catholics are misled with this prayer. They put their trust now on the statue of Catholic Mary which is made of powder, that’s why I remembered Matthew 7:14 so fitting to our catholic landscape here in the Phil.

She was a lady all in white, more brilliant than the sun, dispensing a light, clearer and more intensive than a cup full of crystalline water penetrated by the rays of the most glaring sun – page 43

2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

Satan is the great deceiver and can transform into a bright light as in the Lady of Fatima, which instructs us to devote our selves to her, which clearly is not in the Bible but has warned us of these things.

TO SAVE SOULS FROM HELL, GOD WISHES TO ESTABLISH IN THE WORLD DEVOTION TO MY IMMACULATE HEART. MY IMMACULATE HEART WILL BE YOUR REFUGE AND THE WAY THAT WILL LEAD YOU TO GOD.
– FATIMA. 1917

Even Pope Francis entrust his papacy to the Catholic Mary and not to Jesus Christ. How then can you love God with ALL your heart, with ALL your mind and with ALL your soul(Luke 10:27) if you entrust even a percent to the Catholic Mary and others? If you do, you are disobeying mother Mary’s instruction to us on John 2:5!

Lastly, i do have a question for you, do you believe that salvation is for the Muslims as well?

Thanks go to you, Habagat, for clearly and correctly stating what I, and most non-Catholic Christians believe!

Satan is the Great Deceiver! It is laughable that a priest would tell someone not to read the Bible because s/he would not understand it? Is it common Catholic belief that we are all so ignorant that we cannot understand true language as it was inspired by God?

I believe the Bible, it’s every word, every parable, every allegory. I believe what Matthew, Mark, Peter, Paul, and other Apostles wrote as literally what Jesus taught them, and what they wanted us to follow as Christians, followers of Christ. I think that I am intelligent enough to understand, and what I do not understand, I can find others of faith to help me understand – not someone or some other book telling me what I must accept as the Truth.

Thanks be to God, through reading my Bible, I know that I am saved through the blood shed on the cross by Jesus, His only son, to forgive me of my sins, and to give me everlasting life with Him in Heaven.

Thanks be to God that I know, by reading the Bible, what a Christian walk in life is, and that it requires my faith in Him with all my heart, soul, and mind. And that I should not listen to heresies and false prophets who will dare to try to convert me to polluted theology and dogma.

Thanks be to God that I know, by reading the Bible, that Jesus walks with me, hears my prayers, and will speak to His Father on my behalf…not Mary, nor Saints, nor any man or any other book.



A sinner by nature,
A soul saved by Christ.
Your sister in Christ!

Karen

 

[Lochias]

I always find it amusing that all the Christians who harp on the Catholic Church and stick to Sola Scriptura have the Catholic Church to thank for that very Bible.

It amazes me to see other Christians failing to notice that the Catholic Church existed before any Bible ever did.

Oh, well. Their loss. Hopefully not of their immortal souls, but those that used to be Catholic and now no longer practice are in exactly that danger.

 

[kmcarl56]

The gap is wide here in the Islands, catholics again pray to the Catholic mary and and others, while Christians are simply followers of Christ, no more no less. If you are a Catholic and believe that Jesus alone can save, then you are not a catholic anymore since you dont follow the process of salvation as what we were taught as catholics.

Christians follow the Bible while Catholics follow the Catechism.

Im just saying these few things differs us.

AMEN!

I don’t think that all Catholics are, or are not, Christians, any more than I would say that all Protestants are, or are not, Christians.

I also do not think that just because you are a Catholic that you are automatically a Christian. Likewise for Protestants.

It goes without saying that the true Christian follows only Christ, believes and acts only according to the Bible, and both with all their hearts, souls, and minds. Christ gave His life for all of us, everyone! He no more distinguishes a follower who is black, white, brown, red, or yellow, than He does between American, German, Chinese, Brazilian, or South African. In His eyes, we are all His children, everyone.

Loving Mary for her gift to us is one thing, putting her above Christ in our prayers to God is quite another, and I personally will not do it. God chose her, not the other way around. God gave us His son through her; she was the vessel, not the creator.

Loving and admiring the various Saints for what they did as Christians here on earth to further Christianity is one thing, but praying to them and adoring them as protectors asnd saviors is quite another. Only Jesus is our Protector and Savior.

I do not think that God distinguishes the Catholic from the non-Catholic since He is the ultimate judge of us all, and we will all face Him one day for our own personal judgement by Him. So, I do not worry so much as to what the Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc. says about what and how I should love and worship God, instead I worry about what and how God says **I **should love and worship Him. His instructions, all of them, can be found in the Bible, which I believe to be the absolute and final Truth.

Since the Catholics know that it was their founders who put the Bible together as inspired words from God, then why do they need anything else. The Catechism was formulated for those who could not read or understand Latin. For centuries Mass was spoken only in Latin. So it was quite convenient for the Church to tell parisheners what to believe, how to act, think and speak, and ultimately how to love and worship God properly.

It was when parisheners started reading the Bible themselves that they began to question certain things that the Catholic Church was teaching at the time, and the abuse of power both politically and religiously by the Church at that time. These parisheners were not protesting Christ’s teachings at all. They were protesting against tyranny and political power that the Church was inflecting on citizens. They just wanted to love the Lord and worship Him as Christ instructed them to.

That is still what protestants and non-denominational Christians want to do. Just because we are not true Christians as defined by Catholics, does not mean that we are not Christians in God’s eyes.

It is my hope and prayer that we can come together as unified Christians in this world to fight the Good Fight against Satan, who has a significant hold on this world. God has promised we will win this fight, so why are we trying to divide His troops?

 

[John_Martin]

Since the Catholics know that it was their founders who put the Bible together as inspired words from God, then why do they need anything else. The Catechism was formulated for those who could not read or understand Latin. For centuries Mass was spoken only in Latin. So it was quite convenient for the Church to tell parisheners what to believe, how to act, think and speak, and ultimately how to love and worship God properly.

When you, who are not Catholic say you are believing the Bible, you are saying you trust the Catholic Church tradition. Then you are secondarily saying you trust Martin Luther and King James’ tradition. Unless you yourself found and reviewed all Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic manuscripts of all the writings (ncluding hundreds not in the Bible) yourself and assembled them together yourself, you are trusting “MAN” to tell you what is the Bible that you should believe. No, you believe in man’s work because you do not believe the Holy Spirit faithfully guided the Catholic Church - if you say the Catholic Church is only men making traditions, then your Bible is a lie assembled by uninspired men. As Catholics we know the presence of the Holy Spirit, we know our Bibles are correctly assembled, and we do not remove books we don’t like because it was the Holy Spirit inspiring the choice of those manuscripts.

It was when parisheners started reading the Bible themselves that they began to question certain things that the Catholic Church was teaching at the time, and the abuse of power both politically and religiously by the Church at that time. These parisheners were not protesting Christ’s teachings at all. They were protesting against tyranny and political power that the Church was inflecting on citizens. They just wanted to love the Lord and worship Him as Christ instructed them to.

I am Catholic; I read the Bible intensely; and because of that I came into the Catholic union rejecting the protest of the protestants. And I did this being well aware of the abuses happening at the time of the “reformation”. I also know that if they had studied the best of Catholic teaching they would have found solutions against the abuses without leaving the Church. But they did not want to look, and above all they did not want to be under any authority except their own reason.

That is still what protestants and non-denominational Christians want to do. Just because we are not true Christians as defined by Catholics, does not mean that we are not Christians in God’s eyes.

Well, you said at the top of your post you don’t think all Catholics are Christian and you don’t think all protestants are Christian - you are the HARSH judge. A Catholic regards EVERY Baptized person to be Christian, to be Catholic. And we want you to come join us in full fellowship so that we can eat and drink at the same table of the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus. Were you baptized in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as Jesus required? You are a Christian to us is the answer is yes, a TRUE Christian, a citizen of the Kingdom of God. We regard the same is true about all the people you judge not to be Christian.

John Martin

 

[John_Martin]

Thanks go to you, Habagat, for clearly and correctly stating what I, and most non-Catholic Christians believe!

Satan is the Great Deceiver! It is laughable that a priest would tell someone not to read the Bible because s/he would not understand it? Is it common Catholic belief that we are all so ignorant that we cannot understand true language as it was inspired by God?

Well, Karen, I read my bible, not only in English, but in the original languages mostly. And reading it I find that I must be Catholic to be in full participation with it. I believe also, every word, every parable, and, if it is an allegory, I believe that also, but I do not make allegories where none exist.

I believe the Bible, it’s every word, every parable, every allegory. I believe what Matthew, Mark, Peter, Paul, and other Apostles wrote as literally what Jesus taught them, and what they wanted us to follow as Christians, followers of Christ. I think that I am intelligent enough to understand, and what I do not understand, I can find others of faith to help me understand – not someone or some other book telling me what I must accept as the Truth.

When you read the Bible you are reading what someone else told you that you must accept as the truth, and a book that someone else decided should be in that book. So, how well do you trust the Catholics who chose the original books? How well do you trust Martin Luther or King James who took away some of the books from you?
How well do you trust whoever is telling you that the Bible you have has the correct books? You are trusting men, tradition. It is a fact. That book in front of you did not just appear in English in this final form with just the right number of books. Men decided. And you can invent some magical doctrine that the “Holy Spirit picked the right books even though the men didn’t realize it when they were choosing the books”, but that very sentence is a tradition, a teaching of men, too.

I am a Catholic - Jesus promised Peter and the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would be with them in their actions, choices, work. And He breathed on them and gave them this Holy Spirit, and they, when appointing others give to these others this same Holy Spirit. I am a Catholic; we have the Holy Spirit governing our tradition as we chose the books of the Bible, as we explain all our teachings.

John Martin

 

[habagat123]

***Oh, one point, though, the servants did not tell Jesus they had no wine; Mary did not tell the servants “Go and tell Jesus you don’t have any wine left”. No, she had a heart to help the shy servants. Mary brought this news to Jesus for them, saying “They have no wine”.
That is what Mary does for us, also. We tell her of something that is wrong. And she, as mother of our King, the Queen Mother, leans up to her Son’s ear and says, “John has this problem”. She does not tell Jesus what to do, only the problem. Then she says back to me, “Do whatever my Son tells you to do”.
And I listen to Jesus then. ***

John, you speak just like our priest here, super sweetened for your Catholic Mary. This is a wrong teaching because you and other catholics rely now on your Catholic Mary for Jesus to hear you. Do you really have to have this man made mediatrix to the mediator? Are you questioning now the all sufficiency of Jesus Christ that he can not hear you and see your heart and that you need this Mary for Him to hear you? You mean to say, The Almighty Jesus Christ needs a hearing aid??? That is one twisted doctrine my friend which i used to believe dearly. Jesus can hear you and He doesn’t need this Mary as His hearing aid to listen to you. You can talk to Him just about anything, try it my friend.

Some of the wrong gospel Catholicism is teaching you about this Catholic Mary:

494 …As St. Irenaeus says, “Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.”…

-They have now made this Catholic Mary equal to Jesus Christ as she can save us and the whole human race! However you will never see this teaching in the Bible. The real mother Mary can not do what Jesus can do, and that is to save us.

969 “… Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation. … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

-“ intercession continues to bring us gifts of eternal salvation” where in the Bible does it say that this Mary who is not omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent can dispense the gift of eternal salvation? 1 Timothy 2:5 clearly tells us that there is only one mediator, even me as a Filipino understand this simple verse from the Bible, how much more you guys who uses English as your mother tongue. Why add this fairytale about Mary?

966 “…In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.”

• Mother of God? I think you meant mother of Jesus. How can she be a mother to the one who created her? Only one can deliver our souls from death and that’s Jesus Christ, no other. Not this Catholic Mary which is made of powder, which I foolishly bowed down too and kissed before! Oh did I mention that there are money boxes beside these idols in our churches here?

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. “In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace.”

• “she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls” – that explains why we see crosses here where your Mary is the one attached to it. Still, the Bible never says that by Mary’s obedience, faith, hope and burning charity, she cooperated in Jesus work of salvation. Is your Jesus not God that he needs this woman for help? Sorry but I’ve learned from the Bible that our God is a BIG, LOVING But also JUST GOD and can do EVERYTHING if it is His will!

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

 

[kmcarl56]

Well, Karen, I read my bible, not only in English, but in the original languages mostly. And reading it I find that I must be Catholic to be in full participation with it. I believe also, every word, every parable, and, if it is an allegory, I believe that also, but I do not make allegories where none exist.

It is comforting that you read the Bible in its original languages, so that you do have a full and complete knowledge of what it says. I do not make allegories where none exist either; however, I think that some of the Catechisms do.

When you read the Bible you are reading what someone else told you that you must accept as the truth, and a book that someone else decided should be in that book. So, how well do you trust the Catholics who chose the original books?

I trust the early Christians who were inspired by the Holy Spirit to chose the original books, not necessarily the Catholics, who were so named in the time of Constantine.

How well do you trust Martin Luther or King James who took away some of the books from you?

I do not trust either one of them, I trust what the Apostles wrote, which is what is written in the Bible as infallible.

How well do you trust whoever is telling you that the Bible you have has the correct books? You are trusting men, tradition. It is a fact. That book in front of you did not just appear in English in this final form with just the right number of books. Men decided. And you can invent some magical doctrine that the “Holy Spirit picked the right books even though the men didn’t realize it when they were choosing the books”, but that very sentence is a tradition, a teaching of men, too.

I trust no man, no church, for the teachings that I believe that are true. I believe only what is factually written in the Bible as infallible and undeniable Truth.

I am a Catholic - Jesus promised Peter and the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would be with them in their actions, choices, work. And He breathed on them and gave them this Holy Spirit, and they, when appointing others give to these others this same Holy Spirit. I am a Catholic; we have the Holy Spirit governing our tradition as we chose the books of the Bible, as we explain all our teachings.

How do we determine whether a church is teaching correct doctrine or not? The only infallible standard that Scripture says that we have is the Bible (Isaiah 8:20; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Matthew 5:18; John 10:35; Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 2:25; Galatians 1:6-9). Tradition is a part of every church, and that tradition must be compared to God’s Word, lest it go against what is true (Mark 7:1-13). It is true that the cults and sometimes orthodox churches twist the interpretation of Scripture to support their practices; nonetheless, Scripture, when taken in context and faithfully studied, is able to guide one to the truth.

And are you saying that I do not have the Holy Spirit within me as a follower of Christ? Are you of the belief that my soul is not capable of receiving the Holy Spirit because I am not Catholic? I again point to the Bible with regard to that belief. If you must look to the Catechism to discern your answer, then you are looking in the wrong place.

 

[habagat123]

Satan is the Great Deceiver! It is laughable that a priest would tell someone not to read the Bible because s/he would not understand it? Is it common Catholic belief that we are all so ignorant that we cannot understand true language as it was inspired by God?

-Hi Karen, sadly but true, Catholics including myself before were not encouraged to study the Word of God, as i earlier mentioned, the priest would say, it will just confuse you. I guess it was one way of how the Catholic Church manipulated and controlled us the “natives/indio” before…follow the Church without question was the norm before and was pass on until now. I look at the Bible as a love letter to God for us, so we may know Him and we can grow in love and in faith in Him, only in Him.

I believe the Bible, it’s every word, every parable, every allegory. I believe what Matthew, Mark, Peter, Paul, and other Apostles wrote as literally what Jesus taught them, and what they wanted us to follow as Christians, followers of Christ. I think that I am intelligent enough to understand, and what I do not understand, I can find others of faith to help me understand – not someone or some other book telling me what I must accept as the Truth.

-true! I just wonder though why Catholics who they proudly say have compiled the Bible, doesn’t read it and would rather lean on the Catechism which is not inspired by God. There are already a few doctrines like the doctrine of mary that contradicts the Bible.

***Thanks be to God, through reading my Bible, I know that I am saved through the blood shed on the cross by Jesus, His only son, to forgive me of my sins, and to give me everlasting life with Him in Heaven.

---

-AMEN! Catholics won’t agree on this, salvation for them is a process including good works and if you die and end up in “purgatory” which the priest says applies to everyone, then that would mean more money for the Church. Oh, by the way, they do have special and non special rates for prayers or masses for the dead here, including baptism! What about the poorest of the poor Catholics who cannot afford to pay the mighty Catholic Church for their dead love ones then? You can’t just ask a priest to pray for the dead without giving to the Church and that is why they hold on to this purgatory doctrine. It is a source of revenue for the mighty and proud Catholic Church.

***Thanks be to God that I know, by reading the Bible, what a Christian walk in life is, and that it requires my faith in Him with all my heart, soul, and mind. And that I should not listen to heresies and false prophets who will dare to try to convert me to polluted theology and dogma. ***

-Amen as I pray that God would strengthen my faith in Him. It is wonderful to be a follower of Jesus Christ! I feel like…as you say it in the US or in English, unshackled! Free from the wrong gospel/tradition of the Catholic Church, I have been lied to for almost 40 years! I have moved all my kids from a big Catholic school to a humble small Christian school. Nevertheless, I know and trust that God would be pleased and would take care of them.

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

***Thanks be to God that I know, by reading the Bible, that Jesus walks with me, hears my prayers, and will speak to His Father on my behalf…not Mary, nor Saints, nor any man or any other book.

---

-AMEN! To GOD be the glory!

 

[habagat123]

I always find it amusing that all the Christians who harp on the Catholic Church and stick to Sola Scriptura have the Catholic Church to thank for that very Bible.

-Lochias, yes I thank them for compiling the Bible and giving it to us but the words there are of God not from the catholic Church, maybe you meant the Catechism. I would suggest every Catholic and Christian to read, listen and obey The Word of God.

It amazes me to see other Christians failing to notice that the Catholic Church existed before any Bible ever did.

-Isn’t the Old Testament which is part of the Bible existed before your Catholic Church? The early Christians recorded and wrote the New testament and your Catholic Church compiled it and as you and all other proud Catholics say, gave it to us Christians…well thank you once again. BUT it is not important who compiled it but Jesus said“Blessed RATHER are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”!

Oh, well. Their loss. Hopefully not of their immortal souls, but those that used to be Catholic and now no longer practice are in exactly that danger.

-I would rather die in Jesus Christ and hold on to His promise rather than going back to a lie.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

What more do you need?

 

[Le_Cracquere]

My attempt to get back to the thread’s starting purpose:

Over the course of his life, depending on the nation or region, a Protestant may meet more Catholics than not who define themselves as “Catholic,” but not necessarily as “Christian.” Or who, if asked whether they’re Christian, might respond “um … I’m Catholic?” as if unsure whether it counted.

My take: that’s another way of saying that the world is full of nominal/cultural Catholics who claim the status by birthright, or by decades-past baptism & confirmation, but who are practicing atheists and couldn’t explain the elementary precepts of Nicene Christianity if their lives depended on it.

Someone raised Protestant who loses his faith, or never had it to begin with, rarely describes himself as “Protestant”; he’d call himself atheist or agnostic. By contrast, someone in the same position who was raised Catholic often continues to identify as a Catholic, because it’s perceived less as something one chooses to be. In other words, for most Protestants, assenting to Christian doctrine is the sine qua non of Christianity; for Catholics, the defining criteria tends to be things like baptism, communion with the Church, and other things that are more out of the individual believer’s hands.

Long story short: there are a lot of functioning non-Christians who think they’re Catholic, and this creates confusion among many Protestants, who don’t understand how someone belonging to a valid church could possibly have any confusion on the issue.

 

[John_Martin]

Okay, so what is an appropriate response when someone says I am not Catholic anymore I am a Christian?
God Bless you in the name Jesus!

The few times I have been asked, “Are you Christian or Catholic?” I responded that I am a Catholic Christian. I heard that suggestion once on a radio broadcast of Women of Grace; it was Fr. Edmund Sylvia, CSC who suggested it. No one has ever argued with this reply.

To get back on track, Stephen, there is no distinction - Christian is the term for citizen of the Kingdom of God, as is Catholic. Saying “I am Christian” for us equals saying “I am Catholic” equals saying “I am a citizen of the People of God, the Kingdom God established”. It is exactly like a national identity of people saying “I am American”. Being Catholic, being Christian, is not simply a personal preference of affiliation to a religious group, but it is citizenship, and family membership. Peter and the early church fathers all spoke of us as aliens in the countries where we live, sojourners in these countries. All the Baptized have this citizenship and are Catholic, are Christian, whether they participate in full communion with Peter or try to set their own definition of what Christian means.

By the way, this forum’s questioner was Catholic asking for a Catholic explanation. Then people who wanted to cause Catholics to lose the faith they hold began posting and the original question was ignored and it was overtaken by loud voices denouncing the Faith that was delivered to us by the Apostles and Fathers, the Church, from our Lord. The loud voices are proclaiming something other than the Faith that was delivered to us. When we were joined to the Church, being born again into this new citizenship, we vowed loyalty to the received Faith and teaching and to the ones delivering the Faith to us. Therefore we must ignore the voices that say the Church is wrong, because it is the Church, the Body of Christ, the People of the Kingdom of God, that we are in.

Our Mother, Mary, please pray for us; St. Thomas, please pray for us; St. Ignatius, please pray for us. Our Lord and Brother and King and Friend Jesus, hear our need and hear all the Saints who pray with us. Keep us in your Word as you have so faithfully done; keep us obedient to your Will as you continue to do. In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen

John Martin

 

[Miriam1947]

See how Catholics proclaim we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)

By enduring to the end (Matt.24:13)

Thank you PRmerger

Catholics are definitely Christians. When I am asked (usually by a ‘Bible believing Christian’) which church I belong to I say:

"I belong to the First Church of Christ, I’m a Catholic"

‘Bible believing Christian’ - this is what they call themselves.

 

[habagat123]

John, I’m sorry if I was loud(but didn’t The Bible say to rebuke?) but my post initially was to differentiate a Catholic and a Christian in our setting here.

Now I have seen and understood that if I hold on to the Bible only as my guide to Christ and believe in faith that Jesus is the only way to salvation, then I am no longer a Catholic but a Christian. That if I believe in the Bible as the true Word of God and not the Catechism, I am no longer a Catholic but a Christian. And if I believe that Jesus is the head of the Church and not the Pope - then I am an anathema and no longer a Catholic but a Christian.

I was just showing how we were brought up here as Catholics and how I know Jesus now through The Bible. Most of the Catholics that are now Christians here were the people who read the Bible and have regular Bible study and most of the people who are still Catholics here are people who don’t read the Bible and just trust to whatever the parish priest say. The Bible has just opened our eyes to the truth.

I am in no way trying to let other Catholics lose their faith as I know only a few will find the narrow gate.

I was dead but now alive through Jesus Christ!

 

[EIF5A]

Now I have seen and understood that if I hold on to the Bible only as my guide to Christ and believe in faith that Jesus is the only way to salvation, then I am no longer a Catholic but a Christian. That if I believe in the Bible as the true Word of God and not the Catechism, I am no longer a Catholic but a Christian. And if I believe that Jesus is the head of the Church and not the Pope - then I am an anathema and no longer a Catholic but a Christian.

The Catechism and Scripture do not contradict each other. One does not have discernment and interpretation of Scripture just because one desires to have them and proclaims to have them. Imagine giving a 5-year old instructions for car repair. There’s nothing inherently wrong with being a 5-year old. The manual does not contain error. But will that child know what to do even after reading it?

And of course Jesus is the head of the Church. But the pope is the visible leader of the Church Christ established who is responsible for leading the flock and will always be subject to obedience to Christ and His teachings.

I honestly believe much of the misunderstanding and trepidation come from limitations of words and language and how/what they convey.

 

[habagat123]

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."

Would this mean Muslims who does not recognize Jesus Christ as God can and will be saved? Can you please defend this CC841 with scripture please?

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Doesn’t CC841 contradicts The Scriptures?

***But the pope is the visible leader of the Church Christ established who is responsible for leading the flock and will always be subject to obedience to Christ and His teachings.

---

Some of the Pope did terrible things, am i right? Then how can a leader of the true Church of Christ who have done horrible things lead them to His teachings?

Imagine giving a 5-year old instructions for car repair. There’s nothing inherently wrong with being a 5-year old. The manual does not contain error. But will that child know what to do even after reading it?

Good point, but what if you don’t follow the manual as instructed?